IS THERE A RAPTURE? Who will go? WHO'S THE BRIDE?

[JLB]

OK, I'm back. A very simple explanation is in order. The Church is made up of two groups of people. The serious (bride) and the not so serious (luke-warm). The Bride will be gathered just before the tribulation begins. The luke-warm will go through the first half of the trib. and be gathered at mid-trib. and Israel will go through the great trib. and be gathered at the end of the trib. There are Scriptures that back up each one. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Sorry Brother, your theory is opposed to what Paul taught us. The Bride, the luke warm and Israel is Three, not two groups of people.

The Lord Comes once!

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

When He come He will Gather ALL those who are His.

22 For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive . 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


...they that are Christ's at his coming. One gathering, at His Coming.




JLB

 

[jasoncran]

where is that in the scripture?when jesus spoke of the parables about his return and compared it to the jewish weddings I see no mentioning of half ready maids allowed into the feasts but missing the call. and what about all those lukewarm Christians that are dead now?

 

[Chopper]

Sorry Brother, your theory is opposed to what Paul taught us. The Bride, the luke warm and Israel is Three, not two groups of people.

The Lord Comes once!

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

When He come He will Gather ALL those who are His.

22 For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive . 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


...they that are Christ's at his coming. One gathering, at His Coming.




JLB

I listed them at three. 1. Bride, lukewarm, Israel. Hey, believe anything you want.
Yep, the Lord comes once. Its called an "advent" there are two advents of Christ, once when He came to earth in His birth and one more at the end of the age, he comes back to the earth. There will be three gatherings. Pre, Mid, and Post. Two Advents, three gatherings. That is what Scripture teaches. In my next post I will have Scripture to back up everything.

 

[Chopper]

where is that in the scripture?when jesus spoke of the parables about his return and compared it to the jewish weddings I see no mentioning of half ready maids allowed into the feasts but missing the call. and what about all those lukewarm Christians that are dead now?

o_O

 

[Chopper]

It's my time to wind down and ease up my mind so that I can sleep tonight. So Good nite all you theologians, sleep tite.

 

[jasoncran]

an answer not a smilie is preferred. I don't pretend to have all the answers but I do try , sometimes I don't know must be.

 

[Sinthesis]

OK, I'm back. A very simple explanation is in order. The Church is made up of two groups of people. The serious (bride) and the not so serious (luke-warm). The Bride will be gathered just before the tribulation begins. The luke-warm will go through the first half of the trib. and be gathered at mid-trib. and Israel will go through the great trib. and be gathered at the end of the trib. There are Scriptures that back up each one. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The way you have divided the people of God into three groups is very similar to what I've settled on.
Everyone should notice the possibility of more than one gathering this way; more than one phenomena represented as a gathering.

 

[Sinthesis]

The five foolish virgins don't get to come to the banquet, but will probably still be saved.

I also believe this is correct.

 

[jasoncran]

ok the connotation of the wedding feast is that its only for the church. if you miss that then you are none of his. how is one ready? be being saved?

 

[JLB]

Why would that mean that the Christians have to go through the great tribulation? Maybe the Gathering is after the anti-Christ is revealed, but before the great trib begins? ;)

Also, I believe that many Christians will be left behind. The Bride of Christ is spotless and unblemished. Many are not ready. Christ comes for a spotless bride not a worldly whore who happens to believe in God but still embraces the world. The five foolish virgins don't get to come to the banquet, but will probably still be saved. Three Gatherings in a harvest.

This verse defines the Coming of the Lord and our Gathering to Him.

It clearly states, that Day of Gathering, which includes the Resurrection and the Rapture, will come after the antichrist is revealed.

Obviously, if The True Christ were seen by all, and He destroyed the antichrist with the brightness of His Coming before the tribulation, there wouldn't be a tribulation.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Everything is modeled after ancient jewish tradition. The Jewish wedding, they way a harvest is done is in three stages. The day of gathering (I agree this is the best term for it!) is the day of gathering, I agree, the main harvest and so forth. (A work day!)....but has little to do with Christ coming for his bride! Come on. That's not a work day, that's a special occasion and it's not going to be many. It's going to in and out quick, gaher His bride, home to Papa's house for a feast and wedding and so forth. Then later...back to work. It all fits brother. Gathering His bride is NOT the main harvest, is probably not a Resurrection, I'm not sure about that, I suppose it could be for the spotless ones.

The problem with your post is that it doesn't line up with the scriptures.

The is one Gathering for all of those who are His, at His Coming.

He will come a second time. Hebrews 9:28

. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:22

... those who are Christ's, encompasses all those who are Christ's.

Look what Paul says -

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

You can not separate the Resurrection from the Rapture. ... caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The gathering is those who are His. The dead will be raised and we will be changed. ... caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17


If we as a Church are going to come together and agree, please don't dismiss this very irrefutable truth.

The resurrection can not be separated from the rapture. The gathering encompasses both. ...At His Coming.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Psalms 107:37
And sow fields and plant vineyards, And gather a fruitful harvest.

Exodus 23:10-11
"You shall sow your land for six years and gather in its yield, but on the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, so that the needy of your people may eat; and whatever they leave the beast of the field may eat. You are to do the same with your vineyard and your olive grove.


Exodus 34:21
"You shall work six days, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during plowing time and harvest you shall rest.

Leviticus 19:9
`Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest.


Leviticus 23:22
`When you reap the harvest of your land, moreover, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field nor gather the gleaning of your harvest; you are to leave them for the needy and the alien. I am the LORD your God.'"


Exodus 34:22
"You shall celebrate the Feast of Weeks, that is, the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the turn of the year.


Isaiah 17:5
It will be even like the reaper gathering the standing grain, As his arm harvests the ears, Or it will be like one gleaning ears of grain In the valley of Rephaim.


Isaiah 18:4-5
For thus the LORD has told me, "I will look from My dwelling place quietly Like dazzling heat in the sunshine, Like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest." For before the harvest, as soon as the bud blossoms And the flower becomes a ripening grape, Then He will cut off the sprigs with pruning knives And remove and cut away the spreading branches.


Isaiah 24:13
For thus it will be in the midst of the earth among the peoples, As the shaking of an olive tree, As the gleanings when the grape harvest is over.


Jeremiah 51:33
For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: "The daughter of Babylon is like a threshing floor At the time it is stamped firm; Yet in a little while the time of harvest will come for her."


Hosea 6:11
Also, O Judah, there is a harvest appointed for you, When I restore the fortunes of My people.

It even speaks of a harvest as being a gathering. It says it will be like like among the peoples of the earth. It says it will be like gleanings and so forth. what does all this mean to you? You accept that there are two stages to a harvest, firfruits, and harvest. Ok, you're pounding down the home stretch brother. Now consider gleanings. I submit to you that the bride is taken before the great trib because they are ready, the others left behind are not. after the trib revelation says multitudes will come to him! This is the gleanings! First fruits, harvest, gleanings. It's in scripture. Please don't ignore these scriptures.

Please address my post 270 EDITED

This is what Paul taught the Church about the Gathering at the resurrection.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I think this happens pre-great -tribulation.

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

..and the Lord descends from heaven, but it does not say that He comes to the earth at this time. Then after the great trib...the gleanings are gathered.

This does not line up with -

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

and again -

... looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,


JLB

 

[Chopper]

Why would that mean that the Christians have to go through the great tribulation? Maybe the Gathering is after the anti-Christ is revealed, but before the great trib begins? ;)

Also, I believe that many Christians will be left behind. The Bride of Christ is spotless and unblemished. Many are not ready. Christ comes for a spotless bride not a worldly whore who happens to believe in God but still embraces the world. The five foolish virgins don't get to come to the banquet, but will probably still be saved. Three Gatherings in a harvest.

No Christian goes through the great tribulation. The Bride goes first before the trib starts. The worldly believers will go through the first half of the trib. and then be gathered. The great trib. is to bring Israel to their knees and realize that Jesus was their Messiah.

 

[Chopper]

The way you have divided the people of God into three groups is very similar to what I've settled on.
Everyone should notice the possibility of more than one gathering this way; more than one phenomena represented as a gathering.

You are right, my friend.

 

[Chopper]

I'm not seeing where scripture supports this. Christ Himself comes for His bride, then later, His Angels gather the believers.

Or, you could look at it like Christ does come once, but doesn't come to the earth, his Bride comes up to meet Him in the air. He'll come once again and touch down, do some things, reign 1000 years and then judgement day.

Yep, very good. Jesus comes for His bride (in the clouds) His second advent is later.

 

[Chopper]

I also believe this is correct.

Very good, CORRECT!

 

[Chopper]

ok the connotation of the wedding feast is that its only for the church. if you miss that then you are none of his. how is one ready? be being saved?

You are right, The wedding feast, or marriage supper of the Lamb is for the Bride, no one else. Some believe that the O.T. prophets and perhaps a few O.T. leaders will be there as well, I don't know.

 

[Chopper]

This verse defines the Coming of the Lord and our Gathering to Him.

It clearly states, that Day of Gathering, which includes the Resurrection and the Rapture, will come after the antichrist is revealed.

Obviously, if The True Christ were seen by all, and He destroyed the antichrist with the brightness of His Coming before the tribulation, there wouldn't be a tribulation.


JLB

You are correct.

 

[Chopper]

Everything is modeled after ancient jewish tradition. The Jewish wedding, they way a harvest is done is in three stages. The day of gathering (I agree this is the best term for it!) is the day of gathering, I agree, the main harvest and so forth. (A work day!)....but has little to do with Christ coming for his bride! Come on. That's not a work day, that's a special occasion and it's not going to be many. It's going to in and out quick, gaher His bride, home to Papa's house for a feast and wedding and so forth. Then later...back to work. It all fits brother. Gathering His bride is NOT the main harvest, is probably not a Resurrection, I'm not sure about that, I suppose it could be for the spotless ones.The Lord gave instruction to His people how to grow and harvest, JLB. It's in scripture, please study up on it for your own edification. I don't believe the Lord would instruct people to do things differently than he would. IT'S IN THERE!

I like your harvest rendering. Good post Edward.