Is TULIP biblical?

[journeymanisnothing]

So, all children fully obey their parents at all times?

No I said they learn how not to get hit by a car. It's called learning why God thinks we're more than road kill.

Absolutely not. Kids will push their parent’s boundaries to see what they can get away with. Even the best children rebel at times.

And when children rebel you think a loving parent should never speak his child again.
Please wake up.

 

[Iconoclast]

She missed the whole point.

The unregenerate are wicked. No, not one good.

Each time they explain away verses, the reduce the chance truth will find them.

 

[brightfame52]

I understand we were created in Gods' Image. By defiling ourselves through our own sins, we need to be born again by the Holy Spirit of Christ Who showed us how God Himself on earth desired peace with all people.

Now go read 1Cor.15:27. Then you and Iconoclast and maybe some other reformers and JWs will understand Paul wasn't comparing Jesus with His Father.

The core to all error is when Jesus isn't being seen as God.

Rom 3:9-19 describes man by nature, how we are naturally born from our mothers womb:

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[brightfame52]

Actually, Romans 3:12, which is the verse in question, is referring to
Psalm 14:1-3

​

NASB 1995 Par ▾ Folly and Wickedness of Men. For the choir director. A Psalm of David. 1The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good. 2The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God. 3They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one. 4Do all the workers of wickedness not know,

THE FOOL says in his heart.....


And again:

Psalm 53:1-4
1The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God,”
They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice;
There is no one who does good.
2God has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
To see if there is anyone who understands,
Who seeks after God.

3Every one of them has turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
There is no one who does good, not even one.

4Have the workers of wickedness no knowledge,
Who eat up My people as though they ate bread
And have not called upon God?

5There they were in great fear where no fear had been;
For God scattered the bones of him who encamped against you;
You put them to shame, because God had rejected them.

6Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion!
When God restores His captive people,
Let Jacob rejoice, let Israel be glad.



David is speaking about THE WICKED,
and specifically the wicked that attached Israel, God's people.

They were defeated, their bones were scattered.
God hated them as much as they hated God.

There is a specific people in these verses.
It is not speaking about the lost in general.

I know, both testaments provide information, evidence that this is man by nature Per Gods view Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Rom 3:9-19 describes man by nature, how we are naturally born from our mothers womb:

No. Paul is describing people who have been mistaught about what God expects from both Jews and gentiles.

9 What then? are we better than they?

Are "we" Jews better than "they" the gentiles?

No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Answer, no because of what Paul said in Romans chapters 1 & 2.

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

And this describes no children. It does describe the unlearned who wander away from their Father.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Yes all the world, not only the Jewish people.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The unregenerate are wicked. No, not one good.

Actually the unrepentant are wicked.

...we curse men who have been made in the similitude of God. Jas.3:9

James means the way God originally created us.
It's the adversary of God who doesn't want people to believe God loves all sinners.

 

[brightfame52]

No. Paul is describing people who have been mistaught about what God expects from both Jews and gentiles.

Are "we" Jews better than "they" the gentiles?

Answer, no because of what Paul said in Romans chapters 1 & 2.

And this describes no children. It does describe the unlearned who wander away from their Father.

Yes all the world, not only the Jewish people.

Paul is describing all men by nature, jew and gentile Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Paul is describing all men by nature, jew and gentile Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Well, since God speaks through His people and His people who wrote the Bible said to teach our children about God we better listen to what the Bible says because parents are in the best position to guide their children in the Lord.

Of course people can easily see how the false teaching of children being unable to comprehend Gods' forgivness is a lie from the devil.

Don't you see what's happening in society? Telling children they're not responsible for the way they are? Why believe something that isn't true?

 

[brightfame52]

Well, since God speaks through His people and His people who wrote the Bible said to teach our children about God we better listen to what the Bible says because parents are in the best position to guide their children in the Lord.

Of course people can easily see how the false teaching of children being unable to comprehend Gods' forgivness is a lie from the devil.

Don't you see what's happening in society? Telling children they're not responsible for the way they are? Why believe something that isn't true?

Teach your children this, that God sees all men naturally as this Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Try looking at it that way and see what happens. ?

I agree. That's why Gods' immutable word said from the very beginning of creation, God ordained that whoever leaves His Light will dwell in darkness. Whoever understands good and evil and handles that knowledge improperly is going to die.

That's what it says and that's all it says.

He meant believers who needed serious schooling. Those early brothers understood the Justice of God. They wanted the judgment of God to fall on their Roman overlords. They also believed their God was merciful.

Their problem was they had no clue how far their Gods' mercy went. They got an education from Jesus that flipped them upside down.

Yes and everyone who is saved must acknowledge his or her sins whether Jew or gentile as Jesus has proven He will forgive any sinner who repents.

Always what the message was. Yes.

No. There's some lesson in everything for everyone. That was Pauls' entire argument concerning the law,

This is not true J.
Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to forgive sins.
We do not have that authority.
He gave them authority at the meeting with the Apostles re baptising.
We do not have that authority...

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Rom.3:19 NIV

Repentance avoids judgment. And the repentant show that mercy to the unthankful. Because that's what Jesus did.

This I agree with.

 

[GodsGrace]

Working out your salvation means; for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Even the working out our salvation is done by the Spirit of God and not us.

Obtain
Produce
Enact
Bring about
Reach
Accomplish
Win
Do
Earn

These all refer to “you did it yourself” and that is most certainly not a gift of God but works based salvation.

I don't know any Christian that believes in work-based salvation.
So I guess this is the end of our conversation.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I don't know any Christian that believes in work-based salvation.
So I guess this is the end of our conversation.

Well, you said ppl can achieve salvation. It was you who said that, not I. And if we achieved it it’s not grace at all.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Teach your children this, that God sees all men naturally as this Rom 3:9-19

Why? According to you they can't understand what you mean.

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't know any Christian that believes in work-based salvation.
So I guess this is the end of our conversation.

Every RC you know believes in a gospel of works

 

[brightfame52]

Why? According to you they can't understand what you mean.

Why not ? You keep bringing up teaching children, dont get shy now

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Why not ? You keep bringing up teaching children, dont get shy now

I'm not shy. God instructs us to teach our children about Him because God knows children understand what their parents are saying about God.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

This is not true J.
Jesus gave the Apostles the authority to forgive sins.
We do not have that authority.
He gave them authority at the meeting with the Apostles re baptising.
We do not have that authority...

The authority to forgive sins belongs to God alone. Believers are witnesses of the gospel being received or rejected along with the Holy Spirit who does the actual forgiving,

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Jn.20:22-23

The Apostles didn't have the authority to forgive or retain sins arbitrarity.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm not shy. God instructs us to teach our children about Him because God knows children understand what their parents are saying about God.

God knows and understands mans condition by nature Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

God knows and understands mans condition by nature Rom 3:9-19

And mankind consists of more than flesh.

 

[brightfame52]

And mankind consists of more than flesh.

By nature this is the plight of all people Rom 3:9-19