Is TULIP biblical?

[JLB]

I never said the phrase was there. It shows that we are born with a sinful nature. That is very much a part of what totally depraved means.

Why not just say each man is born with a sin nature?


Each person can overcome this sinful inclination because of grace.




JLB

 

[Christ_empowered]

No we can’t. In Christ one recognizes sin and begins to see what a serious problem sin is…
And sinning continues. I think it’s Romans 7 that expounds upon this.

Personally I’m thankful that God has revealed some of my sin blind spots to me through various means. This has not and will not result in perfection on earth .

 

[Free]

Why not just say each man is born with a sin nature?

That’s a manmade term, so why not just say each person is totally depraved? Totally depraved better shows what it means to have a sinful nature; that there is no part of us—mind, will, heart, body, and soul—that isn’t affected by by sin.

Each person can overcome this sinful inclination because of grace.

Not without God’s work in each from start to finish. Total depravity is also why no one, except possibly Adam and Eve, truly has free will (Adam and Eve were certainly as close as it got). God had to send his Son in order to free us from bondage to sin and to make us new creatures because it was and is impossible for any human to do it on their own. Even then, we need the indwelling of the Spirit to overcome temptation and to fight the flesh.

 

[jasonc]

Why not just say each man is born with a sin nature?


Each person can overcome this sinful inclination because of grace.




JLB

You love to argue .

It's a synonym for that same thing

Because you literally argue that way .English the KJV Bible is a man made book .the English language didn't exist nor was it created by God .

The English language is a hybrid of low German ,Saxon ,jute and Anglo ,with a French influence and latin

The Hebrew language or any language that God didn't create at Babel is man made .

Ancient Hebrew and Sanskrit ,,chaldea and Babylon are very much brothers .more like parent daughter .

Yet modern Hebrew uses no Sanskrit type lettering today .it evolved from that to its present form but the father apha bet is evudential.

Same with Greek .

Agapao is borrowed man made word that was an insult to be found using unless one was a slave .

A slave lived his master above himself . unconditional.christianity redefined it and as well.few think that Hades is associated with the pantheon or the god of the dead and his underworld . Again. Same thing because Christianity borrowed it and it was redefined by the apostles to convey thoughts as told to then by Jesus


Sometimes words and languages can't be translated literally .

There's a funny video of translation of Germany literally to English and it's sounds worse then yoda .

We place the subject first then the verb and object they often well start with reverse . There is also thought translation where such as

Forever isn't a concept like we have in Greek nor hebrew olam ha ba ,the world to come .
In Greek that is aeon to aeon is the words forever.it literally is age to age and age to age .
We say forever .
.it's silly to argue that since the words many of what is posted in English are not directly said or found exactly in English .

Yet no meanings are not lost .

I add the modern phonetic alphabet ,the 26 of which the French ,romantic language and English have given or take the ch,sh letters and ph .didn't exist until king Charlemagne who wanted literacy to improve and asked a unifying set of letters for his Celtic ,gaul country ,empire .it was based upon the Phoenician and Greek alphabet before .

Arabic and Persian have way more sounds letters,Hebrew has less .

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I don’t know so much about penal substitution.

Good, because then you haven't been indoctrinated so much with false teaching like I was.

Here’s what I do know, that comes from scripture.

• And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

All of our iniquity because the hate displayed toward Jesus is in all mankinds thoughts,

You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’
“But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgmenr. Mt.5:21-22

for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. Rom.2:1

It's important to understand that all men are guilty of sinning against God, as men sinned against Him (Jesus) during His ministry on earth.

• But He was wounded for our transgressions
• He was bruised for our iniquities
• The chastisement for our peace was upon Him

These verses teach about chastisement from our Father which every son is subjected to.The Son of God did not exempt himself from this correction, even though He isn't the One who needed it,
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4 KJV
(You and I haven't shed blood fighting against sinners, by showing the love, grace, mercy and forgiveness of God... agreed?)
And always look at the preceding verses and chapter. Look at them now. Our Savior being being despised and rejected Heb.12:2...and we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnessesHeb.21:1...like the faithful who suffered preaching God's word Heb.11
If people weren't worthy of them by reason of how they mistreated the Prophets (Heb.11:38), how much less those who abused our Creator?
Heb.3 says think about our King and how He suffered "contradiction of sinners against himself."
Is calling Jesus sin in Gods' eyes a contradiction? Or, Is saying Jesus was rightfully seen as a sinner by His Father a contradiction? Or, is saying Jesus was a cursed by his father a contradiction?
I believe those are all contradictions.
If you understand what I'm saying and you agree, I'll know your head is screwed on right.

Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;

What grief and sorrow do human beings have? art people grieved when a loved one is very sick or dies maybe in some tragic way?
We see people on the nightly news rightfully outraged over an innocent person being attacked.
why doesn't the church see Jesus that way? Why aren't Christians incensed by the thought of that?
People think of strength as whacking our enemies ear off with metal swords. Amen?

Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.

Yes. They said,
All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head,saying, He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. Psa.22:7-8, Mt.27:42-43

JLB, I have a confession to make. I would've annihilated those people. I would have... but I hope not anymore.
That

But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

I hope you see Isaiah is saying our Father could only show His perfect love through a human by becoming Human Himself.

In my own words which do not change the true intended meaning of Isaiah 53,

The Messiah showed us in the flesh how our Father feels in Spirit. It's heresy to think God didn't know how human pain feels until He came as Jesus.

Do you believe Jesus was wounded for His own transgressions or was He wounded for ours?
JLB

Jesus was innocent by any standard of law. He was never regarded as accursed by anyone who really knew Him and knows Him today. He was widely regarded as accursed by people who heard of him.

So understand this brother...if Jesus didn't allow people to sin against him... if Jesus came here to judge sinners, if Jesus opened his mouth against sinners you and I wouldn't be having this conversation right now,

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isa.53:7

 

[hawkman]

Of course, I would say that we are born depraved from birth:

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (ESV)

What did King David mean when he said "brought forth in iniquity " ? There is another possibility . I read this link out loud to my wife but as I got to a certain spot I could not continue and had to stop to compose myself , it is powerful .

Nitzevet, Mother of David The bold voice of silence

 

[jasonc]

What did King David mean when he said "brought forth in iniquity " ? There is another possibility . I read this link out loud to my wife but as I got to a certain spot I could not continue and had to stop to compose myself , it is powerful .

Nitzevet, Mother of David The bold voice of silence

An interesting theory but also well oral tradition .

I wouldn't base doctrine on that .

The bible .ah Moses didn't have a book of Genesis to read from .it didn't exist .the stories are orally passed is one theory the other more common is that at horeb God told Moses the account of those before .

My pastor mentioned that in his sermon when he said that about the first books and account of Genesis was not written until Moses .

It's why Genesis has commentary in the early sections .

For this reason shall a man cleave unto his wife ..

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I don't understand your point. How can I re-post a verse you cited "which actually means no body is depraved from birth," if I don't see any verse that you posted saying that?

Because when I posted it, you didn't comment on it at all. You completely ignored the scripture I cited along with a prior request to comment specifically on the scripture I cite.
The reason I asked you to do this is because the scripture I cited agrees with the scripture you cited, but only from how I'm looking at the scriptures. Isn't that odd? I'm not posting scripture that's in conflict with the scripture you are posting. Do you see what I'm saying?

You're ignoring my posted scripture because you can't make sense of what it's saying from your point of view.
if you want to review our conversaation from the beginning go ahead, I'm not looking back.
And Free,
I think what's happening here is you are completely misread what I'm saying. You are trying to angle me under the law.

I want you to understand that I am far from perfect as anyone who has known me my whole life can attest. In many ways I have been a terrible son, friend, husband, father and guilty as Judas.

So why do you want me to dump any more sin on God than what He put up with on a cross? And I want an answer.

Of course, I would say that we are born depraved from birth:

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (ESV)

So what is hard to understand that all mankind is born into a world stained by sin from mothers who are sinners?

The only depravity that is "total" is the 100% rejection of God. Now please cite another verse, passage or chapter which disagrees with my comment on your citation
and
I'll continue to show you that our Father doesn't create people who have no sense of him and then destroys them.

Older than the age stated in your profile.

Then you should remember that as a child you were not completely depraved or were your parents siblings or probably anyone else you knew. I'm just guessing here cause I don't really know you.

My parents were loving nurturing people through the good in the bad as their parents were before them all the way back to the garden is what I believe. None of them were perfect but God love them all and help them all and many of them asked and thanked him but he was still good to all. Do you have a problem with anything I just said.

Maybe will agree soon. Or maybe you'll wonder why Jesus didn't know the day or hour he was coming back.
Or why he said My Father is greater than I am and I am that I am.
Or why Jesus said,"Reoent of your sins against I am."

I think it's because he's coming back without the flesh body. Here's a gem,

he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; Heb.10:20

he's talking about the tabernacle that Moses made. He saying the holiest place was behind the flesh of Jesus Christ. This means when anyone saw this man Jesus they were standing in a holy place. Inside Him was the Holiest Place anywhere. Sinners hugged God and weren't aware of it.

I any same person would be ashamed of wanting to pound nails into Him.
My view of Isaiah 53 is in my last post to JLB.

Of course it would include those people, because Paul is talking about the sin in every human heart. So, it includes what happened at the cross, but includes every human since the fall.

Paul isn't referring to every human heart on earth. He's referring to every human heart on earth that A) knows the law (Jews at a young age) and B) How's the knowledge of good and evil (all gentiles included.)

It is, as he says elsewhere, that everyone without Christ is "by nature children of wrath" (Eph 2:3).

Yes, in rejecting God people become very sinful. God was long suffering in the days of Noah,

The LORD observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil. Gen.6:5 NLT

Now here's where you and I might disagree,

Eze 18:32 - For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Peter says God was longsuffering at this time. "He waited".....for them to repent.

And here's the Truth of the matter. God was suffering because Noah had to be suffering in a world where everyone else had forsaken God,

Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because whoever suffersin the body is done with sin. 1Pet.4:1

The body of Christ - If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 1Cor.12:6

This is because those without Christ are "dead in their trespasses and sins" (Eph 2:1).

Yes and humans can respond to Gods' call of repentance because we are Created in his image,

One who mocks the poor taunts his Maker;
One who rejoices at disaster will not go unpunished. Pro.17:5

James says poor people are rich in faith for obvious reasons. He speaking generally not as a hard-core rule like people who want to go back to the law.

Eph 2 clearly shows the total depravity of humans:

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Like the rest where Jesus said,

Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Mt.18:3 KJV

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
...
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (ESV)

This is exactly why David said,

Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

He would never forget what he did. I've committed since I'll never forget. It's not always easy to see how God feels about our sin.

Have you ever wondered how David viewed his sin? we don't know for sure but David murdered a faithful man, a valiant man who fought for him in battle.

And David did it because he wanted that man's wife. That sounds a lot like sin against Christ and his bride. if you don't understand just don't bother.

Against Thee, Thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in Thy sight: that Thou mightest be justified when Thou speakest and be clear when Thou judgest.

Psa.51:2-4 KJV
and again here:

And enter not into judgment with Thy servant: for in Thy sight shall no man living be justified. Psa.143:2 KJV

Do you believe, as Heb 9:22 states, that "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins"?

Yes, as already stated, If any person doesn't combat in his life he's not a follower of Christ. He's not a Christian.

No, of course not.

Yes, he did, if we were to be saved and reconciled to God.

Wicked men:

Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors. (ESV)

Luk 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” (ESV)

You're posting scripture which shows how pleased God is that His only begotten Son showed this world how much God is crushed by our sins against Him.

The only reason Jesus endured that cross is because He gave His word that you and I would hear the gospel. He didn't break his word. are you hearing His gospel?

 

[eddif]

I don’t believe in total depravity because there is no standard by which to define it, and no basis for it in the Bible.

Total Depravity not being found in scripture is a man made term, designed to prop up a man made doctrine.

Total depravity is a man made term and therefore the definition will vary from person to person based on their indoctrination of Calvinism.


JLB

Are you sure that total depravity of man did not exist just before the flood?

The words total depravity do not appear there.
Genesis 6:5 kjv
5. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart wasonly evil continually.

Sin had dominion

Now I believe there was a solution.

The flood killed all but 8 souls.

Sin was not totally destroyed, but the total dominion of sin was broken.

Was there total dominion at a point in time? Yes.

Was total depravity put away? Yes,

Does sin still exist. Yes.
Is it total? No.

Cut a redneck some slack
eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Are you sure that total depravity of man did not exist just before the flood?

The words total depravity do not appear there.
Genesis 6:5 kjv
5. And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart wasonly evil continually.

Sin had dominion

Now I believe there was a solution.

The flood killed all but 8 souls.

Sin was not totally destroyed, but the total dominion of sin was broken.

Was there total dominion at a point in time? Yes.

Was total depravity put away? Yes,

Does sin still exist. Yes.
Is it total? No.

Cut a redneck some slack
eddif

I think eddif and JLB are saying the same thing.

And they are right.

 

[eddif]

I think eddif and JLB are saying the same thing.

And they are right.

So now journeyman
Seeing you now see?
Or
Hearing you now hear?
Or both?

Do you Now see the rainbow? Especially do you see the rainbow?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

So now journeyman
Seeing you now see?
Or
Hearing you now hear?
Or both?

Do you Now see the rainbow? Especially do you see the rainbow?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

I see God not destroying this world by a 2nd baptism of water ,

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 2Pet.3:4-5 KJV

The Lord who crucified any desire of the flesh Satan might tempt through, is coming to save us Himself,

And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. 2Pet.3:7

But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day. 2Pet.3;8 NLT
(see "they reigned with Christ for a thousand years." Rev.20:4)

The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. 2Pet.3:9 NLT

People not prepared to meet Him will be burned,

the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 2Pet.3:10

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29 KJV

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1Thes.4:16 NET

(Note: Arch-angel means Captain of the angels. One in charge over angels.)


...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Thes.1:7-8

 

[eddif]

I see God not destroying this world by a 2nd baptism of water ,

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 2Pet.3:4-5 KJV

The Lord who crucified any desire of the flesh Satan might tempt through, is coming to save us Himself,

And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. 2Pet.3:7

But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day. 2Pet.3;8 NLT
(see "they reigned with Christ for a thousand years." Rev.20:4)

The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. 2Pet.3:9 NLT

People not prepared to meet Him will be burned,

the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 2Pet.3:10

For our God is a consuming fire. Heb.12:29 KJV

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 1Thes.4:16 NET

(Note: Arch-angel means Captain of the angels. One in charge over angels.)


...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Thes.1:7-8

I see God not destroying this world by a 2nd baptism of water ,

The flood was a physical death. Never again sealed by rainbow.



The death of Jesus was to prevent the eternaL death in hell.

Sealed by words explaining what Jesus accomplished.

We can see the natural rainbow with our natural eyes.
The eyes of our understanding have to be enlightened to see eternal life.

You did pretty good. I choose to drop your past and rejoice in your future.

eddif

 

[JLB]

That’s a manmade term, so why not just say each person is totally depraved?

Because the scriptures teach us otherwise.

Here are some examples:



By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
Hebrews 11:4

• Abel wasn’t totally depraved, but was counted as righteous by his actions.

By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:5

• Enoch wasn’t totally depraved but rather the scriptures says he pleased God.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

Noah was declared as righteous because of his actions of obedience.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Abraham obeyed God and was declared to be God’s friend.


and on and on and on…


And what more shall I say —

For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.

• not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.

Do you believe these were totally depraved?




JLB

 

[JLB]

Good, because then you haven't been indoctrinated so much with false teaching like I was.

All of our iniquity because the hate displayed toward Jesus is in all mankinds thoughts,

You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’
“But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgmenr. Mt.5:21-22

for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. Rom.2:1

It's important to understand that all men are guilty of sinning against God, as men sinned against Him (Jesus) during His ministry on earth.

These verses teach about chastisement from our Father which every son is subjected to.The Son of God did not exempt himself from this correction, even though He isn't the One who needed it,
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4 KJV
(You and I haven't shed blood fighting against sinners, by showing the love, grace, mercy and forgiveness of God... agreed?)
And always look at the preceding verses and chapter. Look at them now. Our Savior being being despised and rejected Heb.12:2...and we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnessesHeb.21:1...like the faithful who suffered preaching God's word Heb.11
If people weren't worthy of them by reason of how they mistreated the Prophets (Heb.11:38), how much less those who abused our Creator?
Heb.3 says think about our King and how He suffered "contradiction of sinners against himself."
Is calling Jesus sin in Gods' eyes a contradiction? Or, Is saying Jesus was rightfully seen as a sinner by His Father a contradiction? Or, is saying Jesus was a cursed by his father a contradiction?
I believe those are all contradictions.
If you understand what I'm saying and you agree, I'll know your head is screwed on right.

What grief and sorrow do human beings have? art people grieved when a loved one is very sick or dies maybe in some tragic way?
We see people on the nightly news rightfully outraged over an innocent person being attacked.
why doesn't the church see Jesus that way? Why aren't Christians incensed by the thought of that?
People think of strength as whacking our enemies ear off with metal swords. Amen?

Yes. They said,
All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head,saying, He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. Psa.22:7-8, Mt.27:42-43

JLB, I have a confession to make. I would've annihilated those people. I would have... but I hope not anymore.
That

I hope you see Isaiah is saying our Father could only show His perfect love through a human by becoming Human Himself.

In my own words which do not change the true intended meaning of Isaiah 53,

The Messiah showed us in the flesh how our Father feels in Spirit. It's heresy to think God didn't know how human pain feels until He came as Jesus.

Jesus was innocent by any standard of law. He was never regarded as accursed by anyone who really knew Him and knows Him today. He was widely regarded as accursed by people who heard of him.

So understand this brother...if Jesus didn't allow people to sin against him... if Jesus came here to judge sinners, if Jesus opened his mouth against sinners you and I wouldn't be having this conversation right now,

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isa.53:7

Like I said before, Jesus paid the price for our sins.

He was sinless, and the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.





JLB

 

[JLB]

You love to argue .

It's a synonym for that same thing

Because you literally argue that way .English the KJV Bible is a man made book .the English language didn't exist nor was it created by God .

The English language is a hybrid of low German ,Saxon ,jute and Anglo ,with a French influence and latin

The Hebrew language or any language that God didn't create at Babel is man made .

Ancient Hebrew and Sanskrit ,,chaldea and Babylon are very much brothers .more like parent daughter .

Yet modern Hebrew uses no Sanskrit type lettering today .it evolved from that to its present form but the father apha bet is evudential.

Same with Greek .

Agapao is borrowed man made word that was an insult to be found using unless one was a slave .

A slave lived his master above himself . unconditional.christianity redefined it and as well.few think that Hades is associated with the pantheon or the god of the dead and his underworld . Again. Same thing because Christianity borrowed it and it was redefined by the apostles to convey thoughts as told to then by Jesus


Sometimes words and languages can't be translated literally .

There's a funny video of translation of Germany literally to English and it's sounds worse then yoda .

We place the subject first then the verb and object they often well start with reverse . There is also thought translation where such as

Forever isn't a concept like we have in Greek nor hebrew olam ha ba ,the world to come .
In Greek that is aeon to aeon is the words forever.it literally is age to age and age to age .
We say forever .
.it's silly to argue that since the words many of what is posted in English are not directly said or found exactly in English .

Yet no meanings are not lost .

I add the modern phonetic alphabet ,the 26 of which the French ,romantic language and English have given or take the ch,sh letters and ph .didn't exist until king Charlemagne who wanted literacy to improve and asked a unifying set of letters for his Celtic ,gaul country ,empire .it was based upon the Phoenician and Greek alphabet before .

Arabic and Persian have way more sounds letters,Hebrew has less .

TULIP and the teachings of the OSAS are unbiblical.

 

[JLB]

Are you sure that total depravity of man did not exist just before the flood?

The Nephilim were definitely depraved.

The Nephilim werent pure human.




JLB

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The flood was a physical death. Never again sealed by rainbow.

The death of Jesus was to prevent the eternaL death in hell.

Sealed by words explaining what Jesus accomplished.

Sealed by following the words Jesus taught,

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath Rom.2:7-8
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Rom.8:13

We can see the natural rainbow with our natural eyes.
The eyes of our understanding have to be enlightened to see eternal life.

You did pretty good. I choose to drop your past and rejoice in your future.

eddif

Thanks eddif. I also choose to see you as a new creation in our Lord. I know we're all fighting against wicked spirits. We can help our Savior free sinners still held captive by the devil when they see the love He has for them working in us.

 

[eddif]

That’s a manmade term, so why not just say each person is totally depraved? Totally depraved better shows what it means to have a sinful nature; that there is no part of us—mind, will, heart, body, and soul—that isn’t affected by by sin.


Not without God’s work in each from start to finish. Total depravity is also why no one, except possibly Adam and Eve, truly has free will (Adam and Eve were certainly as close as it got). God had to send his Son in order to free us from bondage to sin and to make us new creatures because it was and is impossible for any human to do it on their own. Even then, we need the indwelling of the Spirit to overcome temptation and to fight the flesh.

Theology. Tough row to hoe.

Total depravity, IMHO, never opens the door.

Since all have sinned, some do open the door. Revelation 3:20 door.

Mississippi redneck
eddif.

 

[Free]

Theology. Tough row to hoe.

Total depravity, IMHO, never opens the door.

Since all have sinned, some do open the door. Revelation 3:20 door.

Mississippi redneck
eddif.

I agree that total depravity never opens the door, that's why it's a work of God before it ever begins. And he is faithful to complete it.