Is TULIP biblical?

[JLB]

Did he?

Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
Jhn 6:71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him. (ESV)

Yes, Judas heard the call and followed Jesus Christ for over three years and then became a traitor.


Remember Judas was a human being not a devil.

Devil - G1228 - diabolos
The KJV translates Strong's G1228 in the following manner: devil (35x), false accuser (2x), slanderer (1x).

1. prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
   1. a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
2. metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him

Judas was a disciple that followed the Lord for three and a half years like the other eleven.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. John 10:27

Judas was one of His sheep, then he became lost.


Judas was promoted to an apostle and empowered being send out to preach the gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead and cast out devils, like the other eleven.

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him. Matthew 10:1-4



Judas was predestined to reign with Christ and the other eleven in the age to come.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Judas chose to betray Jesus Christ unlike the other eleven.


Like Peter who also followed the LORD, but was called Satan.

Peter was also a man and not the Devil.

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23


This doesn’t mean Peter was a devil or Satan.

He was in that moment acting in a manner that opposed God’s plan.

Satan - G4567 — satanas

1. adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act), the name given to
   
   1. the prince of evil spirits, the inveterate adversary of God and Christ
      1. he incites apostasy from God and to sin
      2. circumventing men by his wiles
      3. the worshippers of idols are said to be under his control
      4. by his demons he is able to take possession of men and inflict them with diseases
      5. by God's assistance he is overcome
      6. on Christ's return from heaven he will be bound with chains for a thousand years, but when the thousand years are finished he will walk the earth in yet greater power, but shortly after will be given over to eternal punishment
   2. a Satan-like man

Peter unlike Judas, continued to follow Jesus Christ.

Judas became a traitor, having betrayed the LORD.









JLB

 

[JLB]

How much choice did Judas have?

The same as the rest of us who follow the LORD.


Judas chose to follow the LORD, and then he chose to betray Him for 30 pieces of silver.




JLB

 

[JLB]

1) God punishing His Son in place of sinners.
or,
2) Man punishing His Son in place of His
Father.

If you believe 1, take defeat 2 using the scriptures. Heads up, it can't be done.

I don’t really understand your point here.


Here is what I stated;


Jesus paid the price for us to have salvation but a person must believe and therefore obey the Gospel to be saved.


What part of my statement do you disagree with?






JLB

 

[JLB]

Is that so? You should know better that I do my homework before making claims like that.

Where you used TRIUNE.

Triune Godhead is not the word Trinity.

The Godhead is Three or Triune.


For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

Three - Triune

Do you believe the Godhead is Triune?







JLB

 

[JLB]

You're begging the question; people make errors in reasoning.

Again, quoting Romans 10:8-17 is not begging the question.

Calling people names is not much of a Theology, but that’s your choice.


My statement stands firm because it is scripture.


Here is the step by step process of salvation:

But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:8-17

• How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed
• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard
• And how shall they hear without a preacher?
• And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

A person must believe and therefore obey the Gospel to be saved; born again, regenerated.

• But they have not all obeyed the gospel.

Question: Do you believe a person must believe the Gospel to be saved?




JLB

 

[JLB]

sure...right after you give one on free will.

And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15


Each person must choose to either serve the LORD or serve other gods.


Choose this day whom you will serve.




JLB

 

[JLB]

sure...right after you give one on free will.

What does Unconditional Election mean to you?


The condition in the Bible to be saved is believe.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Do you agree a person must believe in order to be saved?








JLB

 

[eddif]

John 12:4 kjv
4. Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him,
5. Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
6. This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

Acts 1:20 kjv
20. For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

More complicated than I totally understand, but does relate to Judas.

Take may be a key word.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I don’t really understand your point here.

Here is what I stated;

Jesus paid the price for us to have salvation but a person must believe and therefore obey the Gospel to be saved.

What part of my statement do you disagree with?
JLB

I may not disagree at all. It depends on what you mean by, Jesus paid the price for us to have salvation..."

If you mean, "Jesus suffered the wrath of God in place of us", I disagree because

All sinners bear their own judgment, unless they repent.

If you mean, "Jesus suffered the wrath of man in place of God", I agree becauuse

All sinners bear their own judgment, unless they repent.

The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. 2Pet.3:9

Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? Rom.2:4 NIV

The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy,forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty... Num.14:18

Our Lird preached repentance, not oenal substitution,

Fathers shall not be put to death [fn]for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death [fn]for their fathers;everyone shall be put to death for his own sin. Deu.24:16 NASB95

 

[JLB]

Our Lird preached repentance, not oenal substitution,

I don’t know so much about penal substitution.


Here’s what I do know, that comes from scripture.

• And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
• But He was wounded for our transgressions
• He was bruised for our iniquities;
• The chastisement for our peace was upon Him

Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isaiah 53:4-6


Do you believe Jesus was wounded for His own transgressions or was He wounded for ours?




JLB

 

[Free]

Then re-post the scripture I citied which actually means no body is depraved from birth or don't bother saying anything.

I don't understand your point. How can I re-post a verse you cited "which actually means no body is depraved from birth," if I don't see any verse that you posted saying that?

Of course, I would say that we are born depraved from birth:

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (ESV)

Not be able to without knowledge that was common when I was a child.

do you mind me asking how old you are? not that more experience is any indication of wisdom but I've been around the block a few times with Jesus.

Older than the age stated in your profile.

Would that include people who said Jesus was a siinner?

Of course it would include those people, because Paul is talking about the sin in every human heart. So, it includes what happened at the cross, but includes every human since the fall. It is, as he says elsewhere, that everyone without Christ is "by nature children of wrath" (Eph 2:3). This is because those without Christ are "dead in their trespasses and sins" (Eph 2:1).

Eph 2 clearly shows the total depravity of humans:

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
...
Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
Eph 2:12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. (ESV)

Do you believe, as Heb 9:22 states, that "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins"?

Jesus was guilty?

No, of course not.

Jesus needed to die?

Yes, he did, if we were to be saved and reconciled to God.

He was numbered witn the transgressorsf?

Who regarded Jesus as a transgressor, his Father, or wicked man?

Wicked men:

Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors. (ESV)

Luk 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” (ESV)

 

[jasonc]

Just wow .I haven't talked to any arminist .not even my brother who is hardly reformed on the five points ,that says what I read here .

I would place my brother closer to Lutheran in that .they believe in the five solas once explained to them .

 

[Christ_empowered]

It’s like this…

Some Christians believe that one must believe and keep on believing and the power to believe and keep on believing is within each believer. This also means that unbelievers are responsible for their rejection of Christ because all people have the ability to choose or reject Christ freely.


I believe that God’s mercy is shown to the elect a group He selected for His good pleasure before time began. This lines up with scripture.
The power to believe is from God. The entire work of salvation is His work in our lives. Abide in me and ye shall bear much fruit…


I don’t personally think that Arminian Christians are not real Christians but I find that Arminian groups are far more hostile to reformed theology than vice versa. Catholics…much of Calvinism is officially anathema so I guess I get the hostility..,

 

[JLB]

Of course, I would say that we are born depraved from birth:

Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (ESV)

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
Psalm 51:5

Every human is born with a physical body that contains sin.

However newborn child that was just conceived doesn’t know good from evil or sin from righteousness.

Please explain how a newborn infant can commit a sin.


The phrase totally depraved is not mentioned. You interjected that phrase into Psalm 51:5.


Depart from evil and do good;
Seek peace and pursue it.
The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.
The face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
Psalm 34:14-16


Here is another verse from Psalms that shows we have the ability to choose to depart from evil and do good.


Do you believe Enoch, or Noah or Abraham was totally depraved?







JLB

 

[Christ_empowered]

The idea of children as innocent creatures is surprisingly modern. If I recall correctly it wasn’t until the 19th century or so that the masses began idealizing children and childhood. This would be the same general time period that saw the idea of romantic love as a basis for marriage and the general elevation of home and family marriage etc.
In terms of ideas the idea of children as innocent beings is probably not harmful…in secular society it’s probably better than any alternative…but it’s not biblical.

 

[jasonc]

The idea of children as innocent creatures is surprisingly modern. If I recall correctly it wasn’t until the 19th century or so that the masses began idealizing children and childhood. This would be the same general time period that saw the idea of romantic love as a basis for marriage and the general elevation of home and family marriage etc.
In terms of ideas the idea of children as innocent beings is probably not harmful…in secular society it’s probably better than any alternative…but it’s not biblical.

Western .but well overseas I have seen children do some things .it happens in the west but not celebrated .

 

[Free]

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
Psalm 51:5

Every human is born with a physical body that contains sin.

However newborn child that was just conceived doesn’t know good from evil or sin from righteousness.

Of course. That does have anything to do with what I’ve stated.

Please explain how a newborn infant can commit a sin.

I didn’t say they could. Your comment suggests that you don’t understand what is meant by total depravity.

Please define total depravity.

The phrase totally depraved is not mentioned. You interjected that phrase into Psalm 51:5.

I never said the phrase was there. It shows that we are born with a sinful nature. That is very much a part of what totally depraved means.

Depart from evil and do good;
Seek peace and pursue it.
The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.
The face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
Psalm 34:14-16


Here is another verse from Psalms that shows we have the ability to choose to depart from evil and do good.

God says to do so, but it begs the question to assume that we can do so without his help or his work first on our hearts.

Do you believe Enoch, or Noah or Abraham was totally depraved?

Yes, at least up until some point.

 

[Free]

The idea of children as innocent creatures is surprisingly modern. If I recall correctly it wasn’t until the 19th century or so that the masses began idealizing children and childhood. This would be the same general time period that saw the idea of romantic love as a basis for marriage and the general elevation of home and family marriage etc.
In terms of ideas the idea of children as innocent beings is probably not harmful…in secular society it’s probably better than any alternative…but it’s not biblical.

It really doesn’t take that long for a child to begin disobeying his or her parents; less than a year and before they can even talk.

 

[Christ_empowered]

All human beings are born as sinners in a fallen world . In order to be in right relationship with Jesus Christ we all need to repent and believe. Question is why relatively few do so and even fewer remain in the faith…
Is it a failure of the majority to believe and stay strong or is it a mighty act of God that anyone does?

 

[JLB]

I didn’t say they could. Your comment suggests that you don’t understand what is meant by total depravity.

Please define total depravity.

I don’t believe in total depravity because there is no standard by which to define it, and no basis for it in the Bible.

Total Depravity not being found in scripture is a man made term, designed to prop up a man made doctrine.

Total depravity is a man made term and therefore the definition will vary from person to person based on their indoctrination of Calvinism.


JLB