Adullam
Member
Christian Forums
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Is that a 'no'? Are you suggesting that the God of Christianity is not the God of Judaism?
Must he learn English to be acceptable to God?
No..
How did/do you read the passages in John?
Those passages mean what they mean.
The problem is that we cannot divorce the Christian God from the Jewish God. If we do, we must throw out the OT as it would be written about a different God. No where do Jesus, the Apostles or writers of the NT even imply that the Christian God is a different God from the God of Judaism. In fact, everything they state about God, salvation, and most everything else presumes that they are one and the same.
The whole point of this is to say that we cannot use a disbelief in God having a Son to argue that the Muslim God is therefore different, since the Jews clearly believe the same.
Do Christians have a fuller revelation of God? Yes. Is salvation based on believing this fuller revelation? Yes, that is what John is saying.
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Seeker
Member
Now this is a VERY interesting post. It is rare to come across something that gets me thinking so much that I don't want to answer straight away (as some may have noticed!)! I think I'll see what some others have to say first
Edit: This thread seems to be 10 pages marred by quite a bit of confusion and lack of direction, but really this ^ should have been the true point of discussion. (But I guess confusion is often necessary in order to identify the areas in need of clarification.)
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F
Fedusenko
Guest
Because I am the OP of this thread and because the language argument has grown old and I don't want to read it anymore I shall clarify the question.
Is the god of Christianity the same as the god of Islam? Please continue as the conversation is valuable.
P.S. Allah sounds so much like El (spoken lazily or the plural Ellah, the telephone game?)
Is the god of Christianity the same as the god of Islam? Please continue as the conversation is valuable.
P.S. Allah sounds so much like El (spoken lazily or the plural Ellah, the telephone game?)
Seeker
Member
Agree with you on all counts!
This has piqued my interest as a direction moving forward:
Pard
Member
I'd rather not get into my view on why the god of Muhammad came to be, however I think that the answer is like a coin, that is two sided.
On the Christian side, Allah (Muhammad's god) is not the same as God (Abraham's, Noah's, and Christ's God). This I believe to be the truth. It makes no sense, nor does the Bible support in any way, shape, or form God going and making a second, modified revelation after what the gospel events.
On the Muslim side, Allah (Muhammad's god) is the same as God (Abraham's, Noah's, and Christ's God). I believe that Muslims sincerely believe this to be true. I've never read the quran but I have enough of an understanding of Islam to know that they sincerely believe Jesus was a prophet, but only a prophet and not God. It is the Muslim view (and correct me if I am wrong Seeker) that over time the Christians created a new mythos for Christ and deviated from what He actually came for.
I think that pretty much says what everyone else has been trying to articulate on some way or another. I don't believe that Allah (Muhammad's god) is anything more than a golden cow, that is a fictitious creation of humans. That is pretty much the Christian view on the matter and I honestly can't see any other way around it unless you are unitarian/universalist, in which case you got a slew of other issues we should address first.
On the Christian side, Allah (Muhammad's god) is not the same as God (Abraham's, Noah's, and Christ's God). This I believe to be the truth. It makes no sense, nor does the Bible support in any way, shape, or form God going and making a second, modified revelation after what the gospel events.
On the Muslim side, Allah (Muhammad's god) is the same as God (Abraham's, Noah's, and Christ's God). I believe that Muslims sincerely believe this to be true. I've never read the quran but I have enough of an understanding of Islam to know that they sincerely believe Jesus was a prophet, but only a prophet and not God. It is the Muslim view (and correct me if I am wrong Seeker) that over time the Christians created a new mythos for Christ and deviated from what He actually came for.
I think that pretty much says what everyone else has been trying to articulate on some way or another. I don't believe that Allah (Muhammad's god) is anything more than a golden cow, that is a fictitious creation of humans. That is pretty much the Christian view on the matter and I honestly can't see any other way around it unless you are unitarian/universalist, in which case you got a slew of other issues we should address first.
Is the God of Judaism a golden cow, a fictitious creation of humans?
Pard
Member
Nope. Why would you think that?
Well, wait... Do you mean Judaism of today in 2012 or Judaism back in the day? Because when you say that I think of Judaism of David, way back in the day. That was God, which I think I made clear since I did say "Abraham's, Noah's, Christ's God". It may not be politically correct to say among Christians (but when have I EVER liked being politically correct?) but Judaism died on the cross with Christ and modern Judaism isn't any different than any other pagan religion (ie anything that isn't Christianity). Modern Jews are gonna suffer the same fate as the Muslims and the Hindus and the Wiccans and all of them, unless they repent and come to the Lord Jesus Christ. And if you don't like that, too bad! Just look at modern Judaism! They don't even go to the Tanakh they go to a creation of man for their answers! Ptui!
Did God die?
Pard
Member
Well, Jesus died... Does that count? He's kind of God, right? But God the Father didn't die, if that's what you mean. And God the Son came right on back!
What I mean is, is the God of the OT dead?
So is the God of the Christians the same God of the Jews and the same God of the Muslims?
Pard
Member
Didn't I answer this? Why did you go on such a round about way to get to the exact same thing that I said before?
Let me see if I can't spell it out for you.
I am going to be talking about God, the one and only, the Christian God. He is the S-A-M-E God that is seen in Genesis 1:1 all the way through Malachi 4:3. He has gone by the name Elohim, Yahweh (or Jehovah depending on transliteration used), El Shaddai , and many other names, all of which are displayed in the Old Testament. He is the S-A-M-E God that is worshiped today by the Christians and He is the God who sent Christ into the world to save the world by His sacrifice on the cross at calvary.
He is NOT the same god that the muslims pray to. They pray to a golden cow. And he is not the same god that the modern Jews pray to, they also pray to a golden cow (coincidentally, they also invented said symbolic golden cow). He is also not the god of the Hindus, or the Greeks, or the Romans, or the Aztecs, or the Buddhists (but I don't think they have a god, so it doesn't matter), or the rastfarians, or the wiccans, or the Irish, or the indians, or the islanders, or anyone else. He is the God of the Christians and that's that.
Oh, and He is my God.
I don't espouse a unitarian/univsalist world view, you know I don't, so why must we go around in a circle Free? Get to what you want to get at and stop raising my post count with silly things!
Let me see if I can't spell it out for you.
I am going to be talking about God, the one and only, the Christian God. He is the S-A-M-E God that is seen in Genesis 1:1 all the way through Malachi 4:3. He has gone by the name Elohim, Yahweh (or Jehovah depending on transliteration used), El Shaddai , and many other names, all of which are displayed in the Old Testament. He is the S-A-M-E God that is worshiped today by the Christians and He is the God who sent Christ into the world to save the world by His sacrifice on the cross at calvary.
He is NOT the same god that the muslims pray to. They pray to a golden cow. And he is not the same god that the modern Jews pray to, they also pray to a golden cow (coincidentally, they also invented said symbolic golden cow). He is also not the god of the Hindus, or the Greeks, or the Romans, or the Aztecs, or the Buddhists (but I don't think they have a god, so it doesn't matter), or the rastfarians, or the wiccans, or the Irish, or the indians, or the islanders, or anyone else. He is the God of the Christians and that's that.
Oh, and He is my God.
I don't espouse a unitarian/univsalist world view, you know I don't, so why must we go around in a circle Free? Get to what you want to get at and stop raising my post count with silly things!