It’s not biblical!

[dwb001]

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:5
The church teaches what Christ revealed eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19 acts 1:8 Jn 20:21-23
The teaching authority of Jesus Christ extends to Peter and the apostles and their successors
They are not impeccable
Like Moses Josuha and their successors in Matt 23 they are not impeccable but they are to be believed by the commandment of Christ.
Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed.
To believe Isaiah is to believe God
To believe the apostles is to believe Christ Lk 10:16 Jn 13:20
Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Not impeccable but commanded to teach and sanctify all men Matt 28:19 and govern the church administer the kingdom till Christ returns
Infallibility only applies with full apostolic authority to the universal church on matters of faith & morals and is a rare occurrence thanks

Sorry... I didn't see a point to all that.
I don't think "not impeccable" and "infallibility" are the same.
So only your last sentence would address any point I made or asked.
And that was only opinion.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

ἔκτρωμα is a compound word, "ek" (out from) and "troma" (this is where we get the English word "trauma"). So, Paul experienced "trauma" "out from" the womb. It is dishonest to the totality of Scripture to take one word and gather a belief from it without grasping the root of the word. The root is often derived from another word. That word must be studied as well. This is called "word study." I would like to encourage you to take lessons in biblical languages, or, at the very least, learn how to do "word studies." Learning Hebrew and koine Greek will be a huge blessing to you if you allow it.

1537. ἐκ ĕk, ek; or
ἐξ ĕx, ex; a prim. prep. denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; lit. or fig.; direct or remote):—after, among, × are, at, betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, × heavenly, × hereby, + very highly, in, … ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from). on, out among (from, of), over, since, × thenceforth, through, × unto, × vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

Yes, trauma as in an abortion. I get it. Strong’s is clear about it. For some reason Hopeful is ignoring the ‘abortion’ aspect of the word Paul chose to use to describe his spiritual birth. I guess because it helps to explain the NIV’s choice to describe his untimely birth as abnormal. Which he resists.

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

Yes, trauma as in an abortion. I get it. Strong’s is clear about it. For some reason Hopeful is ignoring the ‘abortion’ aspect of the word Paul chose to use to describe his spiritual birth.

And for some reason you are ignoring "to wound", fixating on "abortion" and equating the verse as "spiritual" instead of what it is; physical.

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

And for some reason you are ignoring "to wound", fixating on "abortion" and equating the verse as "spiritual" instead of what it is; physical.

While my above post "sounds" a bit curt, it isn't meant to seem that way. Only out of love, grace and gentleness do I point that out.

 

[Hopeful]

Let's try it again, lol:

G1626 - ektrōma - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G1626 - ἔκτρωμα éktrōma, ek'-tro-mah; from a comparative of and τιτρώσκω titrṓskō (to wound); a miscarriage (abortion), i.e. (by analogy) untimely birth:—born out of due time.

www.blueletterbible.org

...and Paul uses the metaphor of an "untimely birth" to lament the fact he was not with Jesus from the very beginning.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are over looking "to wound" again. Isn't abortion and a miscarriage finale? Why are you so hung up on the idea of abortion in this verse? Did Paul not live beyond His birth? I'm just curious why you are so set on it meaning "abortion" and not "to wound?"

You do get it, I hope. An abortion is an untimely ripping away of a baby

The untimely, violent, abortive nature of his spiritual birth on the road to Damascus is what made Paul’s conversion ‘abnormal‘ compared to the other Apostles. A description Hopeful insists on rejecting even though Strong’s supports the use of that description.

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

You do get it, I hope. An abortion is an untimely ripping away of a baby

The untimely, violent, abortive nature of his spiritual birth on the road to Damascus is what made Paul’s conversion ‘abnormal‘ compared to the other Apostles. A description Hopeful insists on rejecting even though Strong’s supports the use of that description.

I get what you're saying, I just don't see it.

 

[Hopeful]

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:5
The church teaches what Christ revealed eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19 acts 1:8 Jn 20:21-23
The teaching authority of Jesus Christ extends to Peter and the apostles and their successors
They are not impeccable
Like Moses Josuha and their successors in Matt 23 they are not impeccable but they are to be believed by the commandment of Christ.
Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed.
To believe Isaiah is to believe God
To believe the apostles is to believe Christ Lk 10:16 Jn 13:20
Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Not impeccable but commanded to teach and sanctify all men Matt 28:19 and govern the church administer the kingdom till Christ returns
Infallibility only applies with full apostolic authority to the universal church on matters of faith & morals and is a rare occurrence thanks

If they are not "impeccable" they are not of God.

 

[Hopeful]

While my above post "sounds" a bit curt, it isn't meant to seem that way. Only out of love, grace and gentleness do I point that out.

Whether of not it is "wound" or "abort", either way it is a metaphor for missing out on being with Jesus from the start like Peter and John, etc.

 

[Hopeful]

You do get it, I hope. An abortion is an untimely ripping away of a baby

The untimely, violent, abortive nature of his spiritual birth on the road to Damascus is what made Paul’s conversion ‘abnormal‘ compared to the other Apostles. A description Hopeful insists on rejecting even though Strong’s supports the use of that description.

What violent or abortive measures did Paul suffer at his conversion on the road to Damascus?
You started with "untimely", and that is true, as he was converted some years after the rest of the apostles and faithful followers of Jesus.

 

[jaybo]

You do get it, I hope. An abortion is an untimely ripping away of a baby

The untimely, violent, abortive nature of his spiritual birth on the road to Damascus is what made Paul’s conversion ‘abnormal‘ compared to the other Apostles. A description Hopeful insists on rejecting even though Strong’s supports the use of that description.

Even though it's off subject... An abortion is a carefully-done medical procedure (wherever it's legal) performed by a qualified doctor or midwife. It is not "an untimely ripping away of a baby".

And Paul's spiritual birth on the road to Damascus was not an "abortive" experience". It was a demonstration of God's power and love to convert even the most cynical of His opponents.

You are making zero sense!

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

Whether of not it is "wound" or "abort", either way it is a metaphor for missing out on being with Jesus from the start like Peter and John, etc.

I can see that, having reread the verses above and after. Being blinded is trauma, but, not abortion trauma.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I get what you're saying, I just don't see it.

I’m wondering why you can’t see the word abortion in the link to the Strong’s word.

 

[dwb001]

I’m wondering why you can’t see the word abortion in the link to the Strong’s word.

So when Strongs puts parentheses around a word... what is the meaning of that?
Like when a Bible version italicises a word it mean something different than when parentheses are around the word.
And that is specific to the editors of the work... so what does Strongs say the mean of () is?

 

[JackrabbitSlim]

I’m wondering why you can’t see the word abortion in the link to the Strong’s word.

Abortion=death
Miscarriage=death
To wound, doesn't necessarily mean death. Paul did not die, as he was already spiritual dead being in the first Adam.
His "rebirth" wasn't violent. However, he was wounded by blindness.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Even though it's off subject... An abortion is a carefully-done medical procedure (wherever it's legal) performed by a qualified doctor or midwife. It is not "an untimely ripping away of a baby".

And Paul's spiritual birth on the road to Damascus was not an "abortive" experience". It was a demonstration of God's power and love to convert even the most cynical of His opponents.

You are making zero sense!

Don’t tell me, tell Paul! He’s the one who chose to use the word that means abortion to describe his birth.

 

[Hopeful]

Don’t tell me, tell Paul! He’s the one who chose to use the word that means abortion to describe his birth.

You are the one who chose to understand it that way.
Why argue about the metaphor when we have the results of it.
"Late to the party".

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So when Strongs puts parentheses around a word... what is the meaning of that?
Like when a Bible version italicises a word it mean something different than when parentheses are around the word.
And that is specific to the editors of the work... so what does Strongs say the mean of () is?

Click on ‘Strong’s Definitions Legend’ in the link I provided. Also, note Vine’s and Thayer’s entries in the link.

 

[jaybo]

Don’t tell me, tell Paul! He’s the one who chose to use the word that means abortion to describe his birth.

Paul is dead. As such, he is not a participant on this forum.

1 Corinthians 15:8...

NRSVue: "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me."
NET: "Last of all, as though to one born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also."
RSV: "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me."
ESV: "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me."

Clearly, the word doesn't mean "abortion". That is a mistranslation by you.

 

[dwb001]

Click on ‘Strong’s Definitions Legend’ in the link I provided. Also, note Vine’s and Thayer’s entries in the link.

Sorry... I don't follow external links.