It’s not biblical!

[Jethro Bodine]

You are the one who chose to understand it that way.
Why argue about the metaphor when we have the results of it.
"Late to the party".

Brought forth abnormally, not naturally, as in an invasive abortion. That is the element that you are resisting/ignoring. That is actually the significant factor of his untimely birth (abortions are untimely, unnatural) I think that Paul is driving at and which made him unworthy of the office of Apostle. The nature of his untimely birth, not the untimelyness itself making it abnormal.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul is dead. As such, he is not a participant on this forum.

1 Corinthians 15:8...

NRSVue: "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me."
NET: "Last of all, as though to one born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also."
RSV: "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me."
ESV: "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me."

Clearly, the word doesn't mean "abortion". That is a mistranslation by you.

All you have to do is read the pure definition of the word by Thayer and Vine.

 

[donadams]

LOL
I always have to get a laugh out of this.

There are DIFFERENT things called church!

There are many churches and heads of those churches.

Figure it out!

I thought only Christ is the head of the church? One head one church?
How many new covenants are there? How many mediators?
How many are king? Kingdoms?
Thanks

 

[Blade]

"IT" is not something I wish to talk about.

 

[GodsGrace]

I thought only Christ is the head of the church? One head one church?
How many new covenants are there? How many mediators?
How many are king? Kingdoms?
Thanks

Well, there are many churches that have heads.
For instance, the head of the Nazarene church is in Youngstown, Ohio.
The head of the Catholic church is in Rome, the Vatican to be precise.

There is, however, only one Church.
And the head of that Church is Jesus Christ.

 

[jaybo]

Well, there are many churches that have heads.
For instance, the head of the Nazarene church is in Youngstown, Ohio.
The head of the Catholic church is in Rome, the Vatican to be precise.

There is, however, only one Church.
And the head of that Church is Jesus Christ.

I basically agree with you, except I prefer to call the various "churches" denominations. As you correctly said, there is only one church -- the body of Christ -- and He is the head.

Of course, the word "church" also means a physical building and a group of Christians gathered together, as in NT times (Rome, Galatia, Ephesus, Colossae, etc.) and through to the present. For any denomination to call itself a church, for example the Nazarene church or the Catholic church is, in my opinion, a misuse of the word.

 

[donadams]

Don,
WHAT is scripture?

the sacred writings of Christianity contained in the Bible.
(considered authoritative).
source: https://www.google.com/search?q=mea...57j0i512l9.3003j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


Don't YOU know what scripture is?
It was decided back in the 4th century for the NT.
It's what we read when we open the bible.

Do you think scripture is the sole authority?

Who decided?
How can scripture be the only authority if scripture does not say what scripture is, it is the inspired word of God and the eternal words of Jesus, all of scripture not just 66 books with missing chapters and Christ is our rule of divine faith the source of truth Jn 1:16-17 Jn 14:6
And this extends to His church Matt 5:14 Matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15
Thanks

 

[GodsGrace]

I basically agree with you, except I prefer to call the various "churches" denominations. As you correctly said, there is only one church -- the body of Christ -- and He is the head.

Of course, the word "church" also means a physical building and a group of Christians gathered together, as in NT times (Rome, Galatia, Ephesus, Colossae, etc.) and through to the present. For any denomination to call itself a church, for example the Nazarene church or the Catholic church is, in my opinion, a misuse of the word.

I'd like everyone to use my dictionary.
Church is the Body of Christ
church is the bldg.

No one will listen!

What word would you use instead of church?

In Greek its Ekklesia,
It means a gathering, an assembling of people.
It was translated to church.
I wonder what church means?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'd like everyone to use my dictionary.
Church is the Body of Christ
church is the bldg.

No one will listen!

What word would you use instead of church?

In Greek its Ekklesia,
It means a gathering, an assembling of people.
It was translated to church.
I wonder what church means?

Called out ones.

 

[jasonc]

Called out ones.

Synonym,synod ,synoque a meeting place of ones called to meet .usually a polity .

 

[donadams]

Reply (1) to post 230 Miamited

The church admits of no divorce between two baptized Christians and separation only on grave requirement, Annulment is not a divorce, it’s a declaration of invalidity due to an impediment. Example of a man is already married and left his wife and marries another without telling anyone, that would constitute an impediment to valid marriage, even though all of the outward appearances of a valid marriage.

The sacraments are a means of grace and require validity.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hopeful]

Don’t tell me, tell Paul! He’s the one who chose to use the word that means abortion to describe his birth.

That is the root of this discussion now.
You see it as a description of Paul's birth, while I see it as a metaphor for his late arrival to the faith.
"And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time." (1 Cor 15:8)
He didn't say he was born out of due time, but as one born out of due time.
He was late.
In the context, too late to see Jesus with the rest of the aforementioned disciples.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You see it as a description of Paul's birth, while I see it as a metaphor for his late arrival to the faith.

Well, you're obviously only skimming my posts. I've said it in plain words that I'm talking about his spiritual birth.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is the root of this discussion now.
You see it as a description of Paul's birth, while I see it as a metaphor for his late arrival to the faith.
"And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time." (1 Cor 15:8)
He didn't say he was born out of due time, but as one born out of due time.
He was late.
In the context, too late to see Jesus with the rest of the aforementioned disciples.

Now explain the part about it being an abortion. The part you dismiss out of hand.

 

[donadams]

Reply (2) to Miamited it’s not biblical # 230

SDA jw lds are not Christians
They reject the Christian doctrines of the Divinity of Christ and the holy trinity
Lds is the Freemasons church founded by the Freemason Joseph smith with strange doctrines like
Baptism of the dead, and disembodied spirits that leads to polygamy.

 

[donadams]

Miamited it’s not biblical 230

Penance
What constitutes penance?
Prayer, fasting, alms, practice of virtues, suffering for the sake of Christ, both voluntary and persecution.

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Why not I know Thy faith?
Reward according to youre faith?

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

 

[donadams]

Hi donadams

Well, as far as the old covenant, that was all canonized by the Jews before Jesus ever got here. Those would be the Scriptures that Jesus would have been referring to on the many occasions where he got spoke to correct the Jewish leaders of his day. The new covenant was formally canonized in the third century A.D. Although, practically, it had already been pretty much established by the early fellowships in what they would accept to pass around to the people. But in the 3rd century, a group established by the CC, did start to sort through the letters and establish a canon so that people wouldn't be able to sneak in any erroneous writings or somehow unapproved.

The Roman CC then took the Scriptures and pretty much locked them away from the hands of the common man and made the claim that the common man wouldn't be able to understand them. That's one of the issues that began to be a sticking point. Detractors began to teach that the Holy Spirit that indwells the born again believer has the sufficient power and resources to give any man, with his presence, understanding of the things of God.

Then the RCC began a centuries long process of intimidation, persecution and outright murder, of everyone that they held to be heretics. Many of them were true saints. I'm pretty confident that it is this very pogrom of the RCC that is referred to in the Revelation of the woman on the beast being drunk with the blood of the saints. Now, the Jews did it a lot also, as Jesus said about them, that they killed the prophets. But since Jesus visitation to us and throughout the time span that the Revelation of Jesus seems to cover, until the day of judgment, it is so far the RCC that has murdered more saints than any other body of people on the earth.

However, I am fully understanding that today's Catholic doesn't want to believe that. And it's ok. It was something that happened over 500 years ago and it's done. But I believe it is what the mention in the Revelation of Jesus is talking about. It then goes on to describe that the beast is wearing scarlet and purple. Those are actually the official colors of the Catholic organization. If someone were to give me a sign that says, "Your looking for group that identifies with the colors of scarlet and purple, I don't think there is any organization in the world that one could consider but the RCC.

Now, maybe as we go through time some other group will come up and it will be another 1,000 years until Jesus returns and this new group is all over scarlet and purple. Then I'll see about changing my mind. But for today and the past that has gone by so far. There is no other earthly organization on the face of the earth, as far as I know, that is identified somehow with scarlet and purple that it would have made sense for God to have warned us in this manner in His word.

"The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet robes, and she wore jewelry made of gold, precious stones, and pearls. In her hand she held a gold cup filled with the filthy and nasty things she had done."

I suppose it might be worth mentioning that worldwide, the RCC holds more gold, precious stones and pearls, than pretty much any other single entity upon the earth.

"The Roman Catholic Church controls approximately 60,350 tons of gold, twice the size of official gold reserves worldwide. The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. She has art works and precious metal jewelry pieces that have created the largest single reservoir in the world. There literally is not another single entity on the face of the earth that has the gold, precious stones, pearls that the RCC holds.

The seven heads that the woman is sitting on stand for seven hills.

There is literally again, no other area of the earth that is known as the city on seven hills, than Rome.

So, it may not be the RCC if some other organization should raise it's ugly head, and that may well happen. But as the description stands in the Scriptures, and taking it and trying to make it fit some group on the earth, so far it's the RCC.

So yes, there was a part of the RCC that worked on establishing the canon of new covenant Scripture. However, they can't even take their own direction on that. Today the RCC doesn't even honor it's own original canon. Now you will find in most 'Catholic' bibles several extrabiblical readings that they have incorporated.

So, I understand that those involved with it aren't going to accept it.

God bless,
Ted

Rev refers to the pagan Roman Empire
The church is the ark of salvation and cannot bear bad fruit as you accuse, a good tree only bears good fruit, the fruit is salvation
Do you accept the catholic Bible with 73 books and more chapters like Dan 13 & 14?
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Because there are still people that need to be reconciled to God. But that hardly means sacrificing Christ again and again to reconcile them to God. That does not need to happen. All they need to do is make their appeal to the one time for all time sacrifice of Christ that he made 2000 years ago.

I never said Christ was to be sacrificed again and again.

There is only one sacrifice and it is eternal. Thanks

 

[donadams]

Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Pure offering
Clean oblation
Unbloody sacrifice

 

[miamited]

Hi donadams

Do you accept the catholic Bible with 73 books and more chapters like Dan 13 & 14?

I wouldn't be truthful if I said yes.

God bless,
Ted