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It’s not biblical!

wondering said:
Could you post something from official Catholic teaching supporting your claim that Mary is worshipped.
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I think it's understood that Catholics claim to not worship Mary.

wondering said:
This really does become tiring to hear.
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As a Protestant I can tell you I'm sick of hearing Mary exalted beyond what is due and given all these supernatural attributes and authority that she does not have and which the scriptures say nothing about.

See, wondering, being the physical mother of Jesus' new form as a human being - nursing him, comforting him, etc. - is not, ultimately, what is blessed. Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it! Luke 11:27-28. That is a blessing that is greater than being the physical mother of the form Jesus changed into to enter into the earth and be our High Priest and Sacrifice.
 
Mungo said:
2 Tim 3:15-16 does NOT say that scripture is all you need.
Some Protestants have an obsession with inserting the word only (or equivalent) into texts where it does not exist.
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Now explain what the scriptures are lacking that we would need additional information "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Now explain what the scriptures are lacking that we would need additional information "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
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Stop trying to shift the discussion.
You made a false claim about what scripture says.
 
Mungo said:
2 Tim 3:15-16 does NOT say that scripture is all you need.
Some Protestants have an obsession with inserting the word only (or equivalent) into texts where it does not exist.
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Mungo said:
Stop trying to shift the discussion.
You made a false claim about what scripture says.
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Yes, I agree. The passage doesn't have the word 'only' (or equivalent) in it. Now explain what the scriptures are lacking that we would need additional information "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
 
Walpole said:
If you cannot, then you violate your own rule of adhering to the Scripture alone. You cannot arrive at the Scriptura, without violating the sola.
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6Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over another. 7For who makes you so superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

1 Corinthians 4:6-7
 
Jethro Bodine said:
6Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over another. 7For who makes you so superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

1 Corinthians 4:6-7
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What does it mean NOT TO GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN?

Scholars don't really know.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Yes, I agree. The passage doesn't have the word 'only' (or equivalent) in it. Now explain what the scriptures are lacking that we would need additional information "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
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That's not the issue. You are just trying to divert from your false claims.
 
wondering said:
What does it mean NOT TO GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN?

Scholars don't really know.
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It means don't invent junk beyond the law and the prophets.

Some may argue that's exactly what Paul and Jesus did. But they both pointed out how the law and the prophets speak of the things now fully revealed in this New Covenant.
 
Mungo said:
That's not the issue. You are just trying to divert from your false claims.
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My claim is that all one needs is the scriptures to guide the Christian experience. Catholics say that's not true. I want to know what was left out of the scriptures that make them inadequate by themselves.
 
Mungo said:
Your claim was that 2Tim 3:15-16 showed SCRIPTURE is all a believer needs
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The scriptures make it so a person may be complete and fully equipped for every good work.

15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:15-17

I've stated my view, now state yours as to why the scriptures alone don't make you complete and fully equipped for every good work. What other information does one need, which I presume you say only the Catholic church can provide, that makes a person complete and fully equipped for every good work?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
The scriptures make it so a person may be complete and fully equipped for every good work.

15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:15-17

I've stated my view, now state yours as to why the scriptures alone don't make you complete and fully equipped for every good work. What other information does one need, which I presume you say only the Catholic church can provide, that makes a person complete and fully equipped for every good work?
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Scripture tells us that there is much more that what is written down and canonised (John 20:30, 21:25, 2John 1:12), 2Thess 2:15)

According to an article in Wikipedia “The books of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) were relayed with an accompanying oral tradition passed on by each generation. Jewish law and tradition thus is not based on a strictly literal reading of the Tanakh, but on combined oral and written traditions.” And also says “the written Torah was seen as containing many levels of interpretation. It was left to later generations, who were steeped in the oral tradition of interpretation to discover those ("hidden") interpretations not revealed by Moses”

Jesus himself used oral tradition.
Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat (Mt 23:1-2)
Where is the seat of Moses mentioned in the OT?

Paul used extra scripturale information.
I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural[a] food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ. (1Cor 10:1-4)
Where does the OT say the rock followed them?

As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith (2Tim 3:8)
Where are Jannes and Jambres in the OT? And this is immediately before the verses you are quoting. Paul obviously expects Timothy to know about Jannes and Jambres - but not from the OT.

There are more I could quote you. All Paul is saying is that this extra scriptural information is not enough. A believer is not fully equipped without scripture.
 
Mungo said:
Paul used extra scripturale information.
I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural[a] food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ. (1Cor 10:1-4)
Where does the OT say the rock followed them?
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What Paul is providing is itself scripture. So even if you want to assign his information to that of extra Biblical, it's still scripture. But in this case (like so many others) Paul's inspiration comes from the OT - Deuteronomy 32:15 NIV.
 
Mungo said:
According to an article in Wikipedia “The books of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) were relayed with an accompanying oral tradition passed on by each generation. Jewish law and tradition thus is not based on a strictly literal reading of the Tanakh, but on combined oral and written traditions.” And also says “the written Torah was seen as containing many levels of interpretation. It was left to later generations, who were steeped in the oral tradition of interpretation to discover those ("hidden") interpretations not revealed by Moses”
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The oral law is exactly the corruption that Jesus set the Israelites free from!
 
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