James 2 And OSAS - Part 2

[JLB]

Paul is not saying they are not saved, but that they cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, by walking in the flesh. One must walk in the spirit to inherit the spiritual blessings of heaven. Look close at this list, if it means they cannot be saved then heaven will not need many mansions.

I would like to see the scriptures you have that back up the statement that says you can live a life of sin and still go to heaven.


Here is my scripture about inheriting the kingdom of God.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


There will be two groups of people on earth when Jesus returns -

Those who inherit the kingdom.

Those who banished into everlasting fire.


George, please do not deceive people by telling them such things as you said -

Paul is not saying they are not saved, but that they cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

According to Jesus, if you do not inherit the Kingdom of God, you will go to hell.

It's that simple!

OSAS is a false doctrine!


JLB

 

[George Muller]

My first question is, "then what's the warning for?" Why should we have a true and living faith that looks the way it's supposed to except for the very reason he gives right in his teaching--so we can know for sure if we have a faith that can save us. And then do something about it if we don't.

Well how do you take the warning for YOURSELF and not others? Are you lost in that you fail to keep the royal law? It is a legalistic mindset to equate everything to being "unsaved" you admitted that you fail at keeping the Royal Law? Are you granted mercy and others are put under bondage and fear of losing their salvation? ARE YOU SURE THAT YOUR FAITH CAN SAVE YOU? Seeing how you do not keep the Royal Law as you should?

Do you not see how by becoming a judge of others, you are breaking the Royal law? When you allow yourself one standard and then judge others by another.

Jas 4:11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

George, there is no name other than Christ through whom we can be saved...

Are you saying that Christ cannot send His Spirit to whom He desires to enable that person to love as Christ? Since no one can do good without Christ, we posit that the Muslim, Jew, or anyone else who follows the Law of Christ does so BECAUSE of JESUS CHRIST and His Holy Spirit.

I am certainly not saying that the Muslim has found another way to God. I am saying that the Muslim COULD be saved THROUGH Christ and His Spirit, Who blows where HE wills, not where we THINK He blows.

Regards

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts..." (Romans 2:14-15 NIV)

Same God, same requirements...just not personified in the person of Jesus Christ because of lack of knowledge about Christ...God himself having revealed himself through nature and conscience to the multitudes in earth's history who have not heard of the Law, or the name of Christ. God's grace extends much, much further than our little corner of history can grasp.

Well first an unsaved man, does not have the "law written upon his heart" Paul is speaking to Jews about the gentile Christians who show the work of the law written upon their hearts "THE HOLY SPIRIT" The law makes clear that the heart of all men is evil and wicked "deceptive above all things" Its good to look at the context of that chapter to see the point Paul is making to the Jews who are trusting in their own goodness to work righteousness.

Ro 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This is why I think he's talking about people who have never heard about the law, or Christ:

"14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,

do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they

do not have the law." (Romans 2:14 NIV)


Christian gentiles DO (and did) have knowledge of the law (do not steal, do not kill, do not covet...), and the knowledge of Christ. This can't be talking about them specifically.

 

[George Muller]

I would like to see the scriptures you have that back up the statement that says you can live a life of sin and still go to heaven.

Find that quote that I made? Do you sin? are you going to heaven?

 

[dadof10]

So, for the record you believe then that we who adhere to OSAS are not damned because we do not adhere to having to believe that we might not be saved in order to be saved?

Is this correct?

?

Smaller, if you would like to discuss the meaning of the term "anathema" and what it exactly entails, all you have to do is take me up on my offer to debate one on one, that way I can post from CATHOLIC sources and straighten out your laughable misconceptions . Nice try. This ain't my first rodeo.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I can quite assure you that I am not interested in the RCC version of that whatsoever, period. So there is no sense wasting your breath or trying to keep goading me into discussions about a sect that considers most of us here heretics.

I'll not be bullied by such charades. And I'm not amused by such tactics used to bypass a simple question I put to you.

I'm not trying to "bypass" anything. I'm not discussing doctrine with you, Smaller. It get's nowhere.

To clarify again, do you believe that in order to be saved you have to believe God in Christ might not save you (you must be non-OSAS?)

I answered this question. Did I just not answer it with enough GUSTO???

Oddly enough there are some sects that believe that. That you must be NON OSAS in order to be saved.

And if you DON'T believe that I don't know why you try to talk anyone out of OSAS anyway.

s

Is this your motivation for posting here, only to save us from damnation? Why would YOU "try to talk anyone" INTO OSAS, unless you believed that NOT holding this doctrine will damn people? Answer your own question, Smaller.

 

[JLB]

I would like to see the scriptures you have that back up the statement that says you can live a life of sin and still go to heaven.

Find that quote that I made? Do you sin? are you going to heaven?

Here is my scripture about inheriting the kingdom of God.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


There will be two groups of people on earth when Jesus returns -

Those who inherit the kingdom.

Those who banished into everlasting fire.


George, please do not deceive people by telling them such things as you said -

Paul is not saying they are not saved, but that they cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

According to Jesus, if you do not inherit the Kingdom of God, you will go to hell.

It's that simple!

JLB

 

[dadof10]

I agree. The falling away is actually the world has become so hardened that no one will believe any more. We see a lot of it Here on a Christian Site!

A lot of it? I see just the opposite. Where do you see people "so hardened that no one will believe any more" HERE?

 

[George Muller]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

George, there is no name other than Christ through whom we can be saved...

Are you saying that Christ cannot send His Spirit to whom He desires to enable that person to love as Christ? Since no one can do good without Christ, we posit that the Muslim, Jew, or anyone else who follows the Law of Christ does so BECAUSE of JESUS CHRIST and His Holy Spirit.

I am certainly not saying that the Muslim has found another way to God. I am saying that the Muslim COULD be saved THROUGH Christ and His Spirit, Who blows where HE wills, not where we THINK He blows.

Regards

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts..." (Romans 2:14-15 NIV)

Same God, same requirements...just not personified in the person of Jesus Christ because of lack of knowledge about Christ...God himself having revealed himself through nature and conscience to the multitudes in earth's history who have not heard of the Law, or the name of Christ. God's grace extends much, much further than our little corner of history can grasp.

Well first an unsaved man, does not have the "law written upon his heart" Paul is speaking to Jews about the gentile Christians who show the work of the law written upon their hearts "THE HOLY SPIRIT" The law makes clear that the heart of all men is evil and wicked "deceptive above all things" Its good to look at the context of that chapter to see the point Paul is making to the Jews who are trusting in their own goodness to work righteousness.

Ro 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This is why I think he's talking about people who have never heard about the law, or Christ:

"14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,

do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they

do not have the law." (Romans 2:14 NIV)


Christian gentiles DO (and did) have knowledge of the law, and the knowledge of Christ. This can't be talking about them specifically.

Well that just ignores the Old Testament that states in clear words that the heart of all men are wicked and deceptive above all things. It also ignores the clear context of these scriptures.

No gentile that is not born-again has the law written upon their hearts.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is the great promise of the Old Testament and Paul was speaking of this very thing.

Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My first question is, "then what's the warning for?" Why should we have a true and living faith that looks the way it's supposed to except for the very reason he gives right in his teaching--so we can know for sure if we have a faith that can save us. And then do something about it if we don't.

Well how do you take the warning for YOURSELF and not others? Are you lost in that you fail to keep the royal law? It is a legalistic mindset to equate everything to being "unsaved" you admitted that you fail at keeping the Royal Law? Are you granted mercy and others are put under bondage and fear of losing their salvation? ARE YOU SURE THAT YOUR FAITH CAN SAVE YOU? Seeing how you do not keep the Royal Law as you should?

Do you not see how by becoming a judge of others, you are breaking the Royal law? When you allow yourself one standard and then judge others by another.

Jas 4:11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Reread my post slowly and thoughtfully. I explained it.

I'm progressing in my faith the way Peter says, therefore, I know that I am saved.

Now, you examine your life so you can know if you are saved. How does that amount to me judging you or anyone else? :dunno

Don't report back to me. Talk to God about it and 'work out your own salvation' between you and him. James is helping us each do that in the privacy of our own hearts and minds.

 

[George Muller]

I would like to see the scriptures you have that back up the statement that says you can live a life of sin and still go to heaven.

Find that quote that I made? Do you sin? are you going to heaven?

Here is my scripture about inheriting the kingdom of God.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


There will be two groups of people on earth when Jesus returns -

Those who inherit the kingdom.

Those who banished into everlasting fire.


George, please do not deceive people by telling them such things as you said -

Paul is not saying they are not saved, but that they cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

According to Jesus, if you do not inherit the Kingdom of God, you will go to hell.

It's that simple!

JLB

Do you do any or the things listed here?
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

DO YOU SIN? How come you get a pass and others are condemned? Do you know any Christain that is not guilty of these things at times? or that does not sin?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

Well first an unsaved man, does not have the "law written upon his heart" Paul is speaking to Jews about the gentile Christians who show the work of the law written upon their hearts "THE HOLY SPIRIT" The law makes clear that the heart of all men is evil and wicked "deceptive above all things" Its good to look at the context of that chapter to see the point Paul is making to the Jews who are trusting in their own goodness to work righteousness.

Ro 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This is why I think he's talking about people who have never heard about the law, or Christ:

"14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,

do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they

do not have the law." (Romans 2:14 NIV)


Christian gentiles DO (and did) have knowledge of the law, and the knowledge of Christ. This can't be talking about them specifically.

Well that just ignores the Old Testament that states in clear words that the heart of all men are wicked and deceptive above all things. It also ignores the clear context of these scriptures.

No gentile that is not born-again has the law written upon their hearts.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This is the great promise of the Old Testament and Paul was speaking of this very thing.

Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.

Well, it's not a hill worth dying for, really.

Peter talks about Christ speaking through the Spirit of God to the people of Noah's day who are now in prison awaiting the Day of Judgment because they did not listen. This is a Biblical example of what Paul is talking about and the ministry of the Spirit in the world outside of the knowledge of Christ and the law, speaking to people's hearts and using that testimony as the 'law' that either saves or condemns them (in the sense of having revealed the truth about God to them).

 

[George Muller]

My first question is, "then what's the warning for?" Why should we have a true and living faith that looks the way it's supposed to except for the very reason he gives right in his teaching--so we can know for sure if we have a faith that can save us. And then do something about it if we don't.

Well how do you take the warning for YOURSELF and not others? Are you lost in that you fail to keep the royal law? It is a legalistic mindset to equate everything to being "unsaved" you admitted that you fail at keeping the Royal Law? Are you granted mercy and others are put under bondage and fear of losing their salvation? ARE YOU SURE THAT YOUR FAITH CAN SAVE YOU? Seeing how you do not keep the Royal Law as you should?

Do you not see how by becoming a judge of others, you are breaking the Royal law? When you allow yourself one standard and then judge others by another.

Jas 4:11 ¶ Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Reread my post slowly and thoughtfully. I explained it.

I'm progressing in my faith the way Peter says, therefore, I know that I am saved.

Now, you examine your life so you can know if you are saved. How does that amount to me judging you or anyone else? :dunno

Don't report back to me. Talk to God about it and 'work out your own salvation' between you and him. James is helping us each do that in the privacy of our own hearts and minds.

What I read was that you can fail at the standard, but others are to judged by a standard you do not keep. Maybe you should go to the Lord?

 

[George Muller]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

Well, it's not a hill worth dying for, really.

Nobody asking anyone to die, but that they consider the scriptures before they try to make up doctrines that confuse and mislead people.

 

[smaller]

Is this your motivation for posting here, only to save us from damnation?

Stated many times that I believe calling upon God in Christ to save us is sufficient for His Abilities to actually 'do so.'

I presume everyone on this board has met that threshold.

Why would YOU "try to talk anyone" INTO OSAS, unless you believed that NOT holding this doctrine will damn people? Answer your own question, Smaller.

Perhaps because promoting that we should believe that God in Christ might not save us is a pretty lame idea.

s

 

[dadof10]

Re: James 2 And OSAS

I would just like to get some thoughts from those who hold this interpretation of James and OSAS. How can you reconcile a "shown to be righteous" interpretation of James 2 and the fact that some of the people who do show it, backslide?

@dadof10

Did Abraham not doubt (just a little tiny bit) when he took Hagar? If anyone says they have not had times of doubt big or small, I would have to think, hmmm.....I am a bigger heathen, then even I thought!

You must be misunderstanding me. Yes, he did doubt, which is why, I think, he took Hagar. If he truly trusted God, why would he carry on with her?

Now I don't see Abraham doubting what God said as backsliding, there is a difference. However, doubt can lead to backsliding.

OK, in Abraham's case, why was he justified AGAIN in Gen. 15, when he was already justified in Gen. 12? Something happened between Gen. 12 and 15 that made it necessary for God to "reckon righteous" Abraham in Gen. 15. The thing that jumps off the pages is his doubting God could fulfill His promise, no matter how long it took.

As can being self centered, what is sin but self-centeredness? I want what I want. I see backsliding as immaturity. One can be a Christian for many years and still be immature in their understanding. I also see that one can have things happen in their lives that they can't reconcile with a loving Father and they regress in their faith. But that does not mean they have rejected the Savior. There are many scenarios in life.

Right, and not all sin completely severs our relationship with God, but some does.

"I think this act of doubt or even unbelief, broke communion with God, so Abraham had to be restored to God's good graces, which he did in Gen. 15. This is a Biblical example of justification as a process, not a one time event. Abraham AGAIN had to "believe God", that He could do what He said, in order to be justified. If he had continued to doubt, he wouldn't have been justified."

This is where we differ. I don't see Abraham as breaking communion with God.

Why was he "reckoned righteous" in in Gen. 15, when he was justified already in Gen. 12?

He wasn't rejecting God as his Lord and I don't see where God took it that way either.

I don't think Scripture says that Abraham rejected God. But he did lose trust.

Were there some bad consequences in Abraham's life because of it? Yes. But I don't see God rejected Abraham. I could be wrong, I haven't read that scripture in awhile. Correct me if I'm wrong. Did God quit blessing him? I need to go back and read again....

No, God didn't "reject" Abraham. God doesn't reject anyone.

I think Abraham went through the same sanctification process we do, but he didn't loose his salvation when he messed up anymore than we do.
God walked Abraham through this process to the point that he was willing to sacrifice Isaac. This type of faith does not just happen, there are ups and downs, overs and unders. I believe God allows us to do stupid things in order to build faith. If we never messed up how would we learn? Some kids are just good kids and always believe their parents and others have to mess up to believe. Do we throw them out in the snow. What would make us think that we are better parents than our Father in heaven?

I don't think "messing up" or making mistakes will lead to losing salvation. We CAN, however, reject God by our behavior. There is a difference between a single person giving in to temptation and a married person CARRYING ON an affair. One is s sin, the other a sinful lifestyle, even though they both involve the same behavior.

 

[dadof10]

Why would YOU "try to talk anyone" INTO OSAS, unless you believed that NOT holding this doctrine will damn people? Answer your own question, Smaller.

Perhaps because promoting that we should believe that God in Christ might not save us is a pretty lame idea.

s

I see now. When we promotes our views it's because we are trying to "save you from damnation" because we believe your view will lead there. You, on the other hand, are only promoting your views because ours are lame. Got it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Reread my post slowly and thoughtfully. I explained it.

I'm progressing in my faith the way Peter says, therefore, I know that I am saved.

Now, you examine your life so you can know if you are saved. How does that amount to me judging you or anyone else? :dunno

Don't report back to me. Talk to God about it and 'work out your own salvation' between you and him. James is helping us each do that in the privacy of our own hearts and minds.

What I read was that you can fail at the standard, but others are to judged by a standard you do not keep. Maybe you should go to the Lord?

No, I said I am living up to the standard. (But now, of course, I'll be guilty of looking down on everyone else. It's a no win, lol.) But you'll probably hear that as saying I'm perfect.

I asked you to reread my post slowly and thoughtfully. I showed you the standard is not perfection. The standard is the love of God being expressed through you through the fruit of the Spirit in ever increasing measure. Progress, not perfection.

My measure of increase is not your measure of increase. And your measure of increase is not my measure of increase.

"16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained." (Philippians 3:16 NIV)

I don't know what level of attainment you have achieved in regard to 'love your neighbor as yourself' that you are now expected to live up to. But I know it's prolly different than what I've attained and God expects me to live up to.

I don't know what characterizes you. You don't know what characterizes me. How can I pass judgment on you? How does showing what James and Peter says about how we can know if we have the faith that saves somehow me judging you?

If you're feeling convicted that is between you and God. If that's the case, you don't need me to change what the scriptures say to ease your conscience. You need to sort out what the Bible says, and how it applies to you with God. That's why James' admonition is there...so we can be healed, not destroyed. So we can get the faith that saves, not be deceived by a faith that can't save.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I see now. When we promotes our views it's because we are trying to "save you from damnation" because we believe your view will lead there. You, on the other hand, are only promoting your views because ours are lame. Got it.

I must say, you got a way with words.

Sharp wit.

 

[JLB]

I would like to see the scriptures you have that back up the statement that says you can live a life of sin and still go to heaven.

Find that quote that I made? Do you sin? are you going to heaven?

Here is my scripture about inheriting the kingdom of God.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


There will be two groups of people on earth when Jesus returns -

Those who inherit the kingdom.

Those who banished into everlasting fire.


George, please do not deceive people by telling them such things as you said -

Paul is not saying they are not saved, but that they cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

According to Jesus, if you do not inherit the Kingdom of God, you will go to hell.

It's that simple!

JLB

Do you do any or the things listed here?
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

DO YOU SIN? How come you get a pass and others are condemned? Do you know any Christain that is not guilty of these things at times? or that does not sin?

I don't PRACTICE those sins that Paul mentioned.

The key phrase you overlook, those who practice those things.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Perhaps because promoting that we should believe that God in Christ might not save us is a pretty lame idea.

s

We should be careful to make sure we state the argument fully.

It is, "We should believe that God may not save us if we don't continue to trust in the blood of Christ to do that. The evidence of that end of trust being a 'faith' that has no deeds to validate it as being a genuine, or continuing, faith in God."

That, from my point of view of OSAS, is what is being debated here. Let's not represent the argument inaccurately.