I never agreed that Paul teaches OSAS. He doesn't - unless you think Paul contradicts himself over and over again.
Paul used the present-permanent tense of salvation many times, here for examples:
Ephesians 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who
hath blessed us
with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as
he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having
predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself,
according to the good pleasure of
his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein
he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom
we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
11 In whom also
we have
obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also
after that
ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
All of those applications are DONE DEAL tense unless we apply RE-WRITES.
And this little exercise can be continued on many many pages of the scriptures in the New Testament as an example of DONE DEAL tense.
You do understand 'tense' I take it?
Nor does anyone else in the NT. Nor does anyone else who read and taught the NT in the immediately following one thousand years. But this is "foundational" and taught for "thousands of years"????
If that is the claim you are making I'd strongly suggest that the readers were not paying very close attention or their views of history are a bit jaded.
Who is living in the fantasy world? Isn't it clear that this "foundational teaching", about whether a believer can become an unbeliever/fall away, would have been discussed?
I've never said that any believer couldn't be blinded again. No doubt about that at all.
But that does not mean Christ abandons any of them. Fallen warriors of faith are quite common as I'm sure you could look to your own 'tribe' to see.
Are you so willing to cast them into eternal torture in fire and ELIMINATE TENSE above in order to do so? Because that is what you 'have' to do in order to get there.
Falling in this present life does NOT automatically equate to eternal torture in fire or eternal death.
I gave an example earlier in this thread about MOSES dying because of UNBELIEF.
Are you saying Moses isn't saved? How about Aaron, the High Priest? He died in unbelief. Not saved you say?
How about those turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh?
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Only by droning on and on about it and eliminating the superabundance of present/solid tense applications.
It is in virtually every book of the NT.
Uh, no. You only think you see what you see.
There is as a fact not one single named believer who is shown to be lost and headed to the infamous Lake. Not ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of what you think is in virtually very book of the N.T. even exists as a fact applied to a believer.
Not one.
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto
you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye
have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Can such be attacked and FALL in this present life? Assuredly! Does that mean God is going to eternally burn them for falling to our enemies?
Never!
That idea is quite utterly non-existing. Even the 'unsaved' have more heart than that.
The OT is clear about it, as well.
Cite them. Show me where any person of Israel is said to be going to burn alive forever and ever.
Just come up with one named example of a person of Israel in the entire Old Testament for this supposed FACT.
go fish....for your oh so sure example and find ONE named person of Israel who is going to burn alive forever and ever and ever.
You will hunt and peck the rest of your life and not find one such example.
Numerous Church Fathers write about it (despite your sect's idea that Christianity began in the first century, took a haitus, and then came back in 1522...). People who have been freed from sin can RETURN to being enslaved by sin and can be judged unworthy for heaven, since they have separated themselves from Christ.
As stated prior I'm still not interested in your subjective version of history.
If you wanna talk text and theology, fine.
Now, if you can twist some Scriptures, based upon your preconceived notions embedded within you by your sect, good for you.
I gave a nice stretch of Ephesians above with PRESENT PERMANENT tense applications.
Go eliminate every last one of them just there if you can.
What is clear is that no one agreed with your take on this subject for one thousand years. Even Paul himself disagrees with your INTERPRETATION of several verses.
I've conceded the fact many times now that believers can fall in this present. That does not equate to eternal torture in fire, period.
The FIRST observation I made about 'falling' is that NO BELIEVER is alone in that matter and that there are DEMONIC FORCES involved within the believers mind and heart that brings those things about. Of course you have bypassed this 'factual observation' numerous times in this thread as well, preferring only to see the FALLEN believer and NEVER the blinding capturing party that is NOT the believer.
In fact I doubt you even have a clue yet about 'this fact' or you would have stepped up to the plate on the 'fact' of it.
So rather than continue to make baldfaced nonsensical subjective unproven indeterminate historical arguments..
just deal with the WORD and we'll get along just fine.
s
