Bible Study Jerry Falwell on the Crucifixion

[Vic C.]

Vic:

So, Mary Magdalene didn't have a Timex? Shoot! :-D

Swatch, she had a Swatch! :smt064 Or was it a Mickey Mouse watch? (pre-Eisner of course)

*where's that verse?* :-D

 

[Adams son]

You know what I find funny? How so many mainstream scholars, evangelists and theologians are starting to believe what others were labeled as 'cults' for years for believing what they did.

H.W. Armstrong's Church of God has believed in the Wednesday - Sunday crucifixion date for years. He was laughed at by mainstream people.

Jehovah's Witnesses have denied the trinity doctrine and denied the immortality of the soul. This is mostly what has labeled them as a 'cult' From what I can see on this forum, many here deny the trinity doctrine as well and I doubt any of them are JW

Seventh Day Adventists have had some of their beliefs labeled as 'cultic doctrines' mainly the denial of immortality of the soul, annihilation and Sabbath observance. All of which have seen world wide mainstream acceptance, especially in the last 20 years.

It just goes to show how arrogant, judgmental and elitest we Christians can be in our thinking when someone's beliefs are different from what we've grown up believing. And yet when we really search the scriptures, we see that perhaps some of these views aren't as 'cultic' as we thought.

Well said.

 

[Free]

Since this is thread is off topic already, I'll address this:

guibox,

Jehovah's Witnesses have denied the trinity doctrine and denied the immortality of the soul. This is mostly what has labeled them as a 'cult' From what I can see on this forum, many here deny the trinity doctrine as well and I doubt any of them are JW

This isn't entirely accurate. JWs are considered to be a cult because they deny the deity of Christ, the deity and personality of the Holy Spirit (an impersonal force), Jesus was raised in a spirit body, not a physical one, they claim to be the one, true, restored church, etc.

There are many here who may deny the Trinity, but none of them deny the deity of Christ or the Holy Spirit.

 

[Adams son]

Since this is thread is off topic already, I'll address this:

guibox,

Jehovah's Witnesses have denied the trinity doctrine and denied the immortality of the soul. This is mostly what has labeled them as a 'cult' From what I can see on this forum, many here deny the trinity doctrine as well and I doubt any of them are JW

This isn't entirely accurate. JWs are considered to be a cult because they deny the deity of Christ, the deity and personality of the Holy Spirit (an impersonal force), Jesus was raised in a spirit body, not a physical one, they claim to be the one, true, restored church, etc.

There are many here who may deny the Trinity, but none of them deny the deity of Christ or the Holy Spirit.

No that's not right. There are many groups who deny both.

And I would like to know who got the license to use this criteria you used above to define a "cult." It seems to me that this word is nothing but a manipulative scare tactic.

.

 

[Free]

Adams son,

And I would like to know who got the license to use this criteria you used above to define a "cult." It seems to me that this word is nothing but a manipulative scare tactic.

Jude 1:3, " Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints."

The word "cult" is used to define those whose beliefs are outside the accepted mainstream beliefs of a religion and are at odds with them (sociological definition).

Jude 1:3 is one of several passages that gives me the license.

 

[Adams son]

Adams son,

And I would like to know who got the license to use this criteria you used above to define a "cult." It seems to me that this word is nothing but a manipulative scare tactic.

Jude 1:3, " Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints."

The word "cult" is used to define those whose beliefs are outside the accepted mainstream beliefs of a religion and are at odds with them (sociological definition).

Jude 1:3 is one of several passages that gives me the license.

And where did you get the license to say that the doctrines which were developed between Nicea and Chalcedon happened to be the faith handed down to the saints that Jude is talking about here?

Secondly, where does Jude use the scare tactic word "cult?"

 

[Free]

Adams son,

And where did you get the license to say that the doctrines which were developed between Nicea and Chalcedon happened to be the faith handed down to the saints that Jude is talking about here?

The councils met to formulate doctrine against heretical movements. They merely approved and confirmed what was already accepted by the Church at large.

Do you have some special knowledge regarding the falsity of any particular doctrines?

Secondly, where does Jude use the scare tactic word "cult?"

I never said Jude used the word, that is why I provided an accepted sociological definition for a sociologically accpeted word. It is simply a word we use to describe those whose beliefs are outside the norm of mainstream religious beliefs. It is not a scare tactic.

 

[Adams son]

Adams son,

And where did you get the license to say that the doctrines which were developed between Nicea and Chalcedon happened to be the faith handed down to the saints that Jude is talking about here?

The councils met to formulate doctrine against heretical movements. They merely approved and confirmed what was already accepted by the Church at large.

That is so out of touch with reality it is hard to know where to begin. Between Nicea and Chalcedon, history clearly shows that these doctrines were DEVELOPED, not simply "affirmed" as if these doctrines had been hanging around since the time of Paul and these boys just gave the ole doctrines a big nod.

Do you have some special knowledge regarding the falsity of any particular doctrines?

I didn't know anyone needed "special" knowledge. It is however quite plain to thinking people that doctrines associated with the Trinity are plagued with so many problems and holes that would could "drive a Hummer right through it" as Arnie would say.

Secondly, where does Jude use the scare tactic word "cult?"

I never said Jude used the word, that is why I provided an accepted sociological definition for a sociologically accpeted word. It is simply a word we use to describe those whose beliefs are outside the norm of mainstream religious beliefs. It is not a scare tactic.[/quote]

Uh huh and you expect everyone to believe that the use of this word is not a manipulative scare tactic right?

 

[Free]

Adams son,

That is so out of touch with reality it is hard to know where to begin. Between Nicea and Chalcedon, history clearly shows that these doctrines were DEVELOPED, not simply "affirmed" as if these doctrines had been hanging around since the time of Paul and these boys just gave the ole doctrines a big nod.

History shows that these doctrines were already in existence prior to the councils.

It is however quite plain to thinking people that doctrines associated with the Trinity are plagued with so many problems and holes that would could "drive a Hummer right through it" as Arnie would say.

Even it that was so, it has more substance than any non-trinitarian viewpoint.

Uh huh and you expect everyone to believe that the use of this word is not a manipulative scare tactic right?

Yes, I do.

 

[Adams son]

Adams son,

That is so out of touch with reality it is hard to know where to begin. Between Nicea and Chalcedon, history clearly shows that these doctrines were DEVELOPED, not simply "affirmed" as if these doctrines had been hanging around since the time of Paul and these boys just gave the ole doctrines a big nod.

History shows that these doctrines were already in existence prior to the councils.

History shows no such thing. Gee I wonder why we have substantial evidence that these men labored for years and years to figure out these things for themselves if it was already known.

[quote:cc944]It is however quite plain to thinking people that doctrines associated with the Trinity are plagued with so many problems and holes that would could "drive a Hummer right through it" as Arnie would say.

Even it that was so, it has more substance than any non-trinitarian viewpoint.[/quote:cc944]

Oh well thank you for your verdict.

[quote:cc944]Uh huh and you expect everyone to believe that the use of this word is not a manipulative scare tactic right?

Yes, I do.[/quote:cc944]

That says a lot.

 

[notaxbill]

I don't see in the Bible where Jesus rose on sunday.

There is no biblical proof of it.

Sunday is a hoax day, just like december 25.

Christ rose from the dead late Sabbath afternoon.


http://www2.andrews.edu/~samuele/books/ ... day/3.html

We all need to see all that Christ fulfilled to truly understand the
resurrection. and did he fulfill the sabbath.

 

[Adams son]

I don't see in the Bible where Jesus rose on sunday.

There is no biblical proof of it.

Well yeah there is proof.

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week.... (Matthew 28:1).

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre (Mark 16:1-2).

Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre (Luke 24:1).

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre (John 20:1).

Wonder what day that would be?

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight. (Acts 20:7).

On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come. (1 Cor 16:2; see 11:18ff.).

 

[Bob10]

Adams son

yes, the woman went to the tomb "on the first day of the week".

that's why they mention "the first day of the week" ---- it was when the women went to the tomb--period.



Acts 20:7 --- they ate a "fellowship meal" to say fairwell to Paul.

 

[notaxbill]

Adams son

yes, the woman went to the tomb "on the first day of the week".

that's why they mention "the first day of the week" ---- it was when the women went to the tomb--period.



Acts 20:7 --- they ate a "fellowship meal" to say fairwell to Paul.

Bob Remember how they had to hurry to get Jesus in the tomb wonder why?
Because God splits hairs the people were unaware but they laid him in the tomb
at the split second the day ended they not having a clock didn't know that
Wednesday eve high sabbath .THen three days latter
He arose splitting hairs again at the exact moment the sabbath ended sundown he was awake.
The bible doesn't say at what time the angels rolled the stone away tho we do know
that Christ folded his burial cloths.
now which day did he walk into newness of life the first day of the week.
He fullfilled the sabbath penalties and walked into the new covenant that was set
forth for freedom in him. The new testement is full of passages of scripture about
being chained down into days months and years as this during this time has no
binding on us. The bible also has scripture that says if you wish to keep them ok
but not as part of your salvation.In one place paul said concering this who has
bewitched you . Romans 14 is the most clear about what food we eat and days we keep
If you read this as it is written you will see all days are the same in Christ
If we keep his commandment to love one another. Our duty to God is to be submissive
to his will (this is a whole other subject) . Some of the early churchs met on the
sabbath on solomons porch just a spit away from the jewish meetings. In other places
they kept the first day of the week because the Jews were being persecuted and they
had enough problems of their own so they kept the first day of the week. Others kept
both sabbath evening going into the first day of the week remembering how he arose
and walked in newness of life (I do not know for sure thats why they did this just
seems a good reason for them to do that.)
Now you may wonder why I wrote all this extra because when he arose seems to
start this question sat or sunday Keep what you wish. Me I go to the sabbath
day church of God here in hot springs Arkansas (arkansaw). Because they do not keep
pagan holidays the pastor there knows how I feel and accepts me into their meetings.
Remember how Christ looked out at the wheat field and saw the weeds growing and said
the enemy planted them let them grow to gather I'm sure you know the rest.
Doesn't really matter what J.F. thinks the truth is the truth.
Love ya peace
notaxbill

 

[notaxbill]

You know what I find funny? How so many mainstream scholars, evangelists and theologians are starting to believe what others were labeled as 'cults' for years for believing what they did.

H.W. Armstrong's Church of God has believed in the Wednesday - Sunday crucifixion date for years. He was laughed at by mainstream people.

Jehovah's Witnesses have denied the trinity doctrine and denied the immortality of the soul. This is mostly what has labeled them as a 'cult' From what I can see on this forum, many here deny the trinity doctrine as well and I doubt any of them are JW

Seventh Day Adventists have had some of their beliefs labeled as 'cultic doctrines' mainly the denial of immortality of the soul, annihilation and Sabbath observance. All of which have seen world wide mainstream acceptance, especially in the last 20 years.

It just goes to show how arrogant, judgmental and elitest we Christians can be in our thinking when someone's beliefs are different from what we've grown up believing. And yet when we really search the scriptures, we see that perhaps some of these views aren't as 'cultic' as we thought.

amen brother
notaxbill

 

[Adams son]

The took down Jesus from the cross because the Sabbath was approaching.

Jesus rose on the first day of the week which we call "Sunday." This is also obvious because we are told the Sabbath was ending.

Hence it is rather obvious that Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday. "Three days and three nights" is simply a Jewish idiom and this is not the only place they count this way in the Bible.

This human died on the 6th day, the number of man.

He rested on the 7th day, the Sabbath, the horizon between heaven and earth.

And he rose on the 1st day which is also the 8th day, 8 being the symbol of eternity.

 

[Bob10]

The took down Jesus from the cross because the Sabbath was approaching.

yes. it was the Sabbath, the annual Nisan 15 Sabbath.

Jesus died Passover - Nisan 14.

The very next day - Nisan 15 - is an ANNUAL Sabbath (Lev 23:5-6), a High day as John calls it (Jn 19:31) .

It was not the weekly Sabbath, assumed by most everyone, but the ANNUAL SABBATH Nisan 15.

http://www.centuryone.com/crucifixion.html

 

[Bob10]

Three days and three nights" is simply a Jewish idiom

The fact that "three days" is used by Hebrew idiom for any part of three days and three nights is not disputed; because that was the common way of reckoning, just as it was when used of years. Three or any number of years was used inclusively of any part of those years, as may be seen in the reckoning of the reigns of any of the kings of Israel and Judah.

But, when the number of "nights" is stated as well as the number of "days", then the expression ceases to be an idiom, and becomes a literal statement of fact.


http://www.therain.org/appendixes/app144.html

 

[Vic C.]

Bob, we're doing this...

They'll never accept it.

 

[Bob10]

let's hope the LORD stirs up their spirit (Ezra 1:1 -kjv), to see the truth.