Jerusalem=Babylon

[archangel_300]

I'm actually somewhat on the fence about Babylon=Jerusalem.
From my studies I tend to think that the Babylon spoken about in Revelation is the New Testament church which then succumbs to harlotry with false gospels and doctrines. It becomes home to all sorts of demons and evil spirits. At which point God pours out His wrath upon it.

So the question I have is what makes the physical place of Jerusalem so special?
Why is this place so important? I don't understand why God's focal point of wrath would be on this physical place. Perhaps someone can explain.

 

[archangel_300]

Jesus called them Jerusalem.
Mat 23;37
O Jerusalem,Jerusalem,thou that killest the prophets,and stonest them which are sent unto thee,how often would I have gatherd thy children together,even as a hen gathereth her children under her wings,and ye would not!

OK, this answers my previous question.

Shiloh, would you then say that the judgment of Babylon/Jerusalem in Revelation has already been fulfilled?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I'm actually somewhat on the fence about Babylon=Jerusalem.
From my studies I tend to think that the Babylon spoken about in Revelation is the New Testament church which then succumbs to harlotry with false gospels and doctrines. It becomes home to all sorts of demons and evil spirits. At which point God pours out His wrath upon it.

So the question I have is what makes the physical place of Jerusalem so special?
Why is this place so important? I don't understand why God's focal point of wrath would be on this physical place. Perhaps someone can explain.

Its not the dirt that is the focal point of God's wrath.It is the people who dwell there that is.
The people there hate the son of God without a cause and they are antichrist.
Do you know much about" this people"?

Luke 21;23
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give suck,in those days!for there shall be great disstress in the land,and wrath upon this people.


The more you read ,the more you learn about this people.You pay close enough attention to scripture it will tell you what those in the land of Israel shall do.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jesus called them Jerusalem.
Mat 23;37
O Jerusalem,Jerusalem,thou that killest the prophets,and stonest them which are sent unto thee,how often would I have gatherd thy children together,even as a hen gathereth her children under her wings,and ye would not!

OK, this answers my previous question.

Shiloh, would you then say that the judgment of Babylon/Jerusalem in Revelation has already been fulfilled?

No it hasnt

 

[archangel_300]

Shiloh,

I can be persuaded into believing that Jerusalem is Babylon but you'll have to answer some questions I have...

Ok so here's one verse that I struggle with.

Revelation 17:15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

How would this fit into the context of the people of Israel?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Shiloh,

I can be persuaded into believing that Jerusalem is Babylon but you'll have to answer some questions I have...

Ok so here's one verse that I struggle with.

Revelation 17:15 Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

How would this fit into the context of the people of Israel?

It is discribing the people of the land .How they are from many nations and speak many tongues.

Here are the demographics of Israel copied from Wikipedia

As of 2009, Israel's population is 7.5 million.[3] Israel has two official languages, Hebrew and Arabic.[1] Hebrew is the primary language of the state and is spoken by the majority of the population. Arabic is spoken by the Arab minority and Jews who immigrated to Israel from Arab lands (by 2002 these Jews and their descendants constituted about 40% of Israel's population).[241] As of 2008, Arab citizens of Israel comprise just over 20% of the country's total population.[242]

Many Israelis communicate reasonably well in English, as many television programs are in English and English is taught from the early grades in elementary school. As a country of immigrants, ]many languages can be heard on the streets . Due to mass immigration from the former Soviet Union and Ethiopia (some 120,000 Ethiopian Jews live in Israel)[243] Russian and Amharic are widely spoken.[244] Between 1990 and 1994, the Russian immigration increased Israel's population by twelve percent.[245] Out of more than one million Russian-speaking immigrants in Israel,[246] about 300,000 are not Jewish.[247]

Over the last decade, large numbers of migrant workers from Romania, Thailand, China, Africa and South America have settled in Israel. Exact figures are unknown as many of them are living in the country illegally,[248] but estimates run in the region of 200,000.[249] Over 16,000 African asylum seekers have entered Israel in recent years.[250]

 

[archangel_300]

Next question.
Would you agree that the passage you quote in Luke 21 is referring to the same thing talked about in Matthew 24?

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place†(whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

If yes, do you then believe that the great tribulation is only isolated to the physical place of Jerusalem?

You agree that judgment has not occurred yet.
So why does God focus his attention on the people living in Jerusalem during the time of the end?
What is particularly special about people living in Jerusalem when this judgment falls?

Thanks.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Next question.
Would you agree that the passage you quote in Luke 21 is referring to the same thing talked about in Matthew 24?

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place†(whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

If yes, do you then believe that the great tribulation is only isolated to the physical place of Jerusalem?

You agree that judgment has not occurred yet.
So why does God focus his attention on the people living in Jerusalem during the time of the end?
What is particularly special about people living in Jerusalem when this judgment falls?

Thanks.

Yes,the passage I quoted in Luke is speaking of the same events as Mt 24.
God focusses his attention on the people living in Israel in the time of the end because that is where the saints are murderd.Those saints that do not worship the beast.They too are mentioned in the book of daniel.

Dan 11;33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil,many days.

The thing they are instructing many about is the abomination of desolation(aka the mark of the beast).

 

[veteran]

Jesus called them Jerusalem.
Mat 23;37
O Jerusalem,Jerusalem,thou that killest the prophets,and stonest them which are sent unto thee,how often would I have gatherd thy children together,even as a hen gathereth her children under her wings,and ye would not!

Don't misunderstand me, for many of the people in Jerusalem joined in agreement to have our Lord crucified. But the REAL blame is with those scribes and Pharisees that swayed and deceived the people. That's especially who our Lord pointed at in many of His rebukes. Per the Jewish historian Josephus, many of the later high priests in Jerusalem were not even of Israel, but were of Edom (Idumeans). The Herods were also Idumeans.

Mark 15:1-3
1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried Him away, and delivered Him to Pilate.
2 And Pilate asked Him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And He answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
3 And the chief priests accused Him of many things: but He answered nothing.
(KJV)

Mark 15:10-13
10 For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.
11 But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto Him Whom ye call the King of the Jews?
13 And they cried out again, Crucify Him.
(KJV)

It was even the chief priests and scribes that had Jesus bound to be delivered up. Also, it was a band sent from the high priests that came to sieze our Lord Jesus...

Mark 15:1-3
1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
2 And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
3 And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.
(KJV)

Mark 15:10-13
10 For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.
11 But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?
13 And they cried out again, Crucify him.
(KJV)

John 18:3
3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
(KJV)

John 18:12-13
12 Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound Him,
13 And led Him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year.
(KJV)

God's Word is very specific who the real blame is upon, and it is not all Israel.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jesus called them Jerusalem.
Mat 23;37
O Jerusalem,Jerusalem,thou that killest the prophets,and stonest them which are sent unto thee,how often would I have gatherd thy children together,even as a hen gathereth her children under her wings,and ye would not!

Don't misunderstand me, for many of the people in Jerusalem joined in agreement to have our Lord crucified. But the REAL blame is with those scribes and Pharisees that swayed and deceived the people. That's especially who our Lord pointed at in many of His rebukes. Per the Jewish historian Josephus, many of the later high priests in Jerusalem were not even of Israel, but were of Edom (Idumeans). The Herods were also Idumeans.

Mark 15:1-3
1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried Him away, and delivered Him to Pilate.
2 And Pilate asked Him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And He answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
3 And the chief priests accused Him of many things: but He answered nothing.
(KJV)

Mark 15:10-13
10 For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.
11 But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto Him Whom ye call the King of the Jews?
13 And they cried out again, Crucify Him.
(KJV)

It was even the chief priests and scribes that had Jesus bound to be delivered up. Also, it was a band sent from the high priests that came to sieze our Lord Jesus...

Mark 15:1-3
1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate.
2 And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.
3 And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing.
(KJV)

Mark 15:10-13
10 For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy.
11 But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.
12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?
13 And they cried out again, Crucify him.
(KJV)

John 18:3
3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
(KJV)

John 18:12-13
12 Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound Him,
13 And led Him away to Annas first; for he was father in law to Caiaphas, which was the high priest that same year.
(KJV)

God's Word is very specific who the real blame is upon, and it is not all Israel.

I never said the blame was on all Israel.In fact,Ive been speaking of how the saints die in Israel.Have you not been following the thread?

Ive not put the blame on any of the saints that die there.

 

[hisvessel1]

Babylon the great whore is Moscow which sits on 7 hills and many waters (5 seas).

Really??? May i see the scriptures for your claim?.....

 

[lecoop]

Babylon-Rev 18;24
And in her was found the blood of prophets,and of saints,and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Jerusalem-Mathew 23;35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon earth,from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zechariah son of Barachias,whom ye slew between the temple and the alter.

Scripture can not be wrong.Jesus can not be wrong.
When trying to understand prophecy ,its best to compare scripture to scripture before jumping to wrong conclusions.

I agree: of course the great whore babylon is none other than the city of Jerusalem WHILE it is being run by the Anthchrist.

GOOD JOB!!!

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Babylon-Rev 18;24
And in her was found the blood of prophets,and of saints,and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Jerusalem-Mathew 23;35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon earth,from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zechariah son of Barachias,whom ye slew between the temple and the alter.

Scripture can not be wrong.Jesus can not be wrong.
When trying to understand prophecy ,its best to compare scripture to scripture before jumping to wrong conclusions.

I agree: of course the great whore babylon is none other than the city of Jerusalem WHILE it is being run by the Anthchrist.

GOOD JOB!!!

Coop

What runs it now according to scripture?

 

[lecoop]

I think you guys have missed something:

During the 42 months of the beast, he and the false prophet deceive most of the world, with their lying miracles, and FALSE messiah.

Rev 13:8
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Rev 18
3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

9And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,


What was her fornication? Deceiving the WHOLE WORLD into thinking he was the long awaited messiah.
This will be the WORST deception that has ever been fostered upon mankind.

21And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

It is the WHORE city that will be cast down and found no more - NOT the physical and true city of Jerusalem. What God is telling us is that NEVER MORE will Jerusalem be related in ANY WAY with false religions - or whoring after false Gods. So "Bablyon:" the city of FALSE religion will be destroyed.

The physical city of Jerusalem will also be burned and destroyed, but she will be rebuilt. "Babylon" the city of the greatest spiritual whordom known to man, will NEVER BE SEEN again.

Coop

 

[lecoop]

Babylon-Rev 18;24
And in her was found the blood of prophets,and of saints,and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Jerusalem-Mathew 23;35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon earth,from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zechariah son of Barachias,whom ye slew between the temple and the alter.

Scripture can not be wrong.Jesus can not be wrong.
When trying to understand prophecy ,its best to compare scripture to scripture before jumping to wrong conclusions.

I agree: of course the great whore babylon is none other than the city of Jerusalem WHILE it is being run by the Anthchrist.

GOOD JOB!!!

Coop

What runs it now according to scripture?

Certainly not the beast of Rev. 13. He has not yet been revealed.
But later, HE will be running much of the world from there.

Coop

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Certainly not the beast of Rev. 13. He has not yet been revealed.
But later, HE will be running much of the world from there.

Coop

That beast has been revealed to me coop.
Perhaps if you didnt assume he would rule the entire world,you might be able to fiqure it out.
All it is ,is a divded empire coop.Like the toes of the image or even like the toes on your own feet.They mingle together but they dont cleave one to another.
The interpretation is this.It is a broken empire.The ten horns are muslim but they are devided into smaller countries and do not cleave together as an empire.The little horn that would rise among them,whose look is much stoughter than his fellows, is Israel and in 1967 ,he subdued three of those.
There are so many prophecies being revealed in these last days yet people are so hung up on thier own interpretations of scripture ,they dont even see what takes place before thier own faces.
Stop thinking you know everything and you might just get to see what Im talking about for once.

Here coop.Watch as the horns appear in this devided empire.

http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The physical city of Jerusalem will also be burned and destroyed, but she will be rebuilt. "Babylon" the city of the greatest spiritual whordom known to man, will NEVER BE SEEN again.

Coop

What makes you think Jerusalem will be rebuilt?

 

[Vic C.]

Myself, I never assumed anyone or anything would rule the entire world. The Bible speaks of 10 kingdoms, with a beast that would only subdue three of those 10.

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Myself, I never assumed anyone or anything would rule the entire world. The Bible speaks of 10 kingdoms, with a beast that would only subdue three of those 10.

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

They renderd thier power and dominion to him.Jerusalem
Even as little as Israel is,it humiliated Jordan,Syria and Egypt in only 6 days.

 

[lecoop]

The physical city of Jerusalem will also be burned and destroyed, but she will be rebuilt. "Babylon" the city of the greatest spiritual whordom known to man, will NEVER BE SEEN again.

Coop

What makes you think Jerusalem will be rebuilt?

Where else would Jesus rule from?

Coop