Jesus Died For You To Be Saved

[KV-44-v1]

Verse?

John 13:11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

 

[Runningman]

KV-44-v1 Judas repented for his betrayal. That would be regeneration.

Matthew 27
3Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

 

[electedbyHim]

Verse?

Look up

Post #178

 

[KV-44-v1]

repented himself,

God "repented" in the Bible. But did God sin? No. That was "repent" in a different sense.
Mabye, Judas was doing that kind.

ASV Jonah 3:10

 

[Runningman]

KV-44-v1


Show proof in the Bible that Judas was saved, please show where Holy Spirit indwelled in him.

The Bible says....
John 13:27 And after the piece of bread, Satan then entered into him. Therefore Jesus *said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

A Christian cannot be possessed by satan or demons.

This would be an assumption not directly stated in Scripture, but is rather a theological argument. Plainly, there is nothing that doesn't state a Christian cannot be possessed when demonstrably there is an example of a Christian being possessed. So your premise relies on Judas not being a Christian when in fact he was originally one of Jesus' closest followers.

Here is what Christ Himself said about the 12.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”

John 13:26 Jesus *answered, “He is the one for whom I shall dip the piece of bread and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the piece of bread, He *took and *gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.

Jesus said Judas was not regenerate.

This does not refer to Judas as being a fallen angel or the devil incarnated in human form, but rather wicked person, something that Jesus said all of his disciples were (Matthew 7:11). Therefore, when Jesus alluded to Judas being a devil, he was referring to Judas being exceptionally wicked. Degrees of wickedness have no bearing on regeneration because sanctification is progressive and incremental.

So you have not provided adequate evidence that Judas was not regenerate.

John 13:10 Jesus *said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”
John 13:11 For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

There were other people named Judas.

 

[Runningman]

God "repented" in the Bible. But did God sin? No. That was "repent" in a different sense.
Mabye, Judas was doing that kind.

ASV Jonah 3:10

Judas changed his mind about the sin he had just committed and made an effort to correct it even though the consequences of his actions were irreversible at this point. In a spiritual sense, Judas demonstrated Biblical repentance according to Matthew 27:3.

 

[electedbyHim]

KV-44-v1 Judas repented for his betrayal. That would be regeneration.

Matthew 27
3Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

This was not true repentance because verse 5 says he went out and killed himself, he still had guilt.

Matthew 27:5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.

Judas’s remorse was not repentance of sin, as the King James Version suggests. Matthew did not use metanoeō, which means a genuine change of mind and will, but metamelomai, which merely connotes regret or sorrow. He did not experience spiritual penitence but only emotional remorse. Although he would not repent of his sin, he could not escape the reality of his guilt. Genuine sorrow for sin (metamelomai) can be prompted by God in order to produce repentance (metanoeō), as Paul declares in 2 Corinthians 7:10. But Judas’s remorse was not prompted by God to lead to repentance but only to guilt and despair.

Because he was a kind of witness against Jesus, perhaps Judas thought that by admitting the wickedness of what he had done he would be punished as a false witness, as Deuteronomy 19:16–19 prescribed. Under that provision, he would have been crucified himself, suffering the penalty imposed on the one he caused to be falsely convicted. Instead of looking to Jesus’ for forgiveness and trusting in His atoning death, Judas’s perverted mind may have led him to believe that by dying he somehow could atone for his own sin.

Proof that Judas’s sorrow was ungodly and selfish is seen in the fact that he made no effort to defend or rescue Jesus. He had no desire to vindicate or save Jesus but only to salve his own conscience, which he attempted to do by returning the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders.

While some of the Jewish religious leaders were escorting Jesus to Pilate, others remained in the Temple. It was there that Judas confronted them (see v. 5) and confessed that he had sinned by betraying innocent blood. Had he been concerned about forgiveness for his sin and had he really believed on the Lord, he would have approached Jesus, not the chief priests and elders. He hoped somehow to assuage his guilt simply by returning the blood money. Like Pilate, who recognized Jesus’ innocence but nevertheless permitted His death, Judas knew he had betrayed innocent blood, but he did not come to Christ’s defense or seek His forgiveness.

Had Judas been able to remember one fault in Jesus, one deficiency or sin, he may have been able to rationalize his treachery. But even Jesus’ arch enemy in the human realm could not escape confessing His innocence. Like the Jewish religious leaders, the Roman political leaders, the false witnesses, and even the demons, Judas could find no fault in Jesus. In His sovereign power, God caused even His enemies to testify to the Son’s sinless purity.

Yet despite his confession, Judas had not changed his mind about who Jesus was or about his own need for salvation. He had simply become aware of the wickedness of what he had done and wanted relief from the overwhelming guilt that now tormented every part of his being. The money he had wanted so badly now burned in his hands like a live coal.

Sin never brings the satisfaction it promises. Instead of happiness it brings sorrow, and instead of pleasure it produces pain. It poisons with a pang that cannot be relieved apart from God’s forgiving grace.

In reply to Judas’s agonized appeal, the chief priests and elders callously replied, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!” True to the characterization Jesus had given of them a few days earlier, the religious leaders of Israel were adept at laying heavy religious burdens on men’s shoulders, while not lifting a finger themselves to help relieve those burdens (Matt. 23:4). They had no more concern for Judas than for Jesus and were as cold-heartedly indifferent to his remorse as they were to Jesus’ innocence, which, in effect, they had already acknowledged.

Judas likely realized he was cursed, because the Mosaic law made clear that “cursed is he who accepts a bribe to strike down an innocent person” (Deut. 27:25). But because the Sanhedrin had paid the betrayal bribe, they were hardly in a position to indict and punish Judas for taking it. If they cared nothing for justice regarding Jesus, they certainly cared nothing for it regarding Judas, especially if it would bring their own indictment as well.

In utter desperation and frustration Judas defiantly threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed. Some interpreters assert that the money was cast into the Temple treasury, suggesting that Judas’s final public act was a gesture of charity. But naos (sanctuary) refers specifically to the inner holy place of the Temple, where only priests were allowed to enter. Judas intentionally threw the money into a place where only the priests could retrieve it. He did not throw it there out of charity but out of spite, wanting them to feel guilty and forcing the chief priests to handle the blood money again themselves.

Following that, he went away and hanged himself. Considering himself already cursed because of his treachery and having unrelieved pain from having committed the greatest crime in human history, he may have reasoned that hanging was the only escape and a fitting death, knowing that “he who is hanged is accursed of God” (Deut. 21:23). We cannot know Judas’s mind, but self-retribution seems a credible explanation for what he did. If so, he took his own life as an act of ultimate self-punishment, in a way that was certain to be cursed by God, thereby inflicting upon himself what his overpowering sense of guilt caused him to believe he justly deserved.

But death does not relieve guilt; it makes it permanent and intensified beyond comprehension. As Jesus repeatedly declared, hell is a place of eternal torment, of “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 8:12; 13:42, 50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30). It is a place of “unquenchable fire, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:43–44). Judas today cries out in the eternal pain of his undiminished guilt.

According to Acts 1:18, when Judas committed suicide he fell headlong and “burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.” Although this account and the one in Matthew report different aspects of his death, they are compatible. He must have hanged himself from a weak limb of a tree on a hillside, and when the limb broke under his weight he fell down the slope and was crushed on the rocks below.


v. verse

John F. MacArthur Jr., Matthew, vol. 4, MacArthur New Testament Commentary (Chicago: Moody Press, 1985), 226–228.

 

[Runningman]

This was not true repentance because verse 5 says he went out and killed himself, he still had guilt.

Matthew 27:5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.

Repenting doesn't mean someone can never sin again.

 

[electedbyHim]

Repenting doesn't mean someone can never sin again.

You missed the point.

 

[KV-44-v1]

killed himself, he still had guilt.

Yes, and killing yourself is murder, so Judas died and sinned within a short timeframe. It's 99.999999%+ likely Judas is going to the eternal torment.

Since we are not God, we can never be 100% certain though.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Runningman
electedbyhim
I don't know which side of this debate to side on.

And, what is the purpose? I think debating evolution with the Barbarian is better.

 

[brightfame52]

When Jesus spoke to the disciples about their promise of eternal life he was speaking to the 12 disciples so that would include Judas. Denying it is a weak argument.

Nothing is said about giving Judas eternal life there you read that into it

 

[KV-44-v1]

Nothing is said about giving Judas eternal life there you read that into it

claiming he "read into it" doesn't make it true.

 

[brightfame52]

claiming he "read into it" doesn't make it true.

But it is true

 

[Runningman]

Nothing is said about giving Judas eternal life there you read that into it

Judas was named a disciple who followed Jesus it doesn't take much know who Jesus was speaking to. No "reading into it" required. He was speaking directly about him and the others in Matt 19:27,29 when he said "ye which have followed me... shall inherit everlasting life..." Anyway seems we are going to just go in circles so feel free to not believe.

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29... and shall inherit everlasting life.

 

[brightfame52]

Judas was named a disciple who followed Jesus it doesn't take much know who Jesus was speaking to. No "reading into it" required. He was speaking directly about him and the others in Matt 19:27,29 when he said "ye which have followed me... shall inherit everlasting life..." Anyway seems we are going to just go in circles so feel free to not believe.

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29... and shall inherit everlasting life.

Nothing is said about giving Judas eternal life there you read that into it

 

[Runningman]

Nothing is said about giving Judas eternal life there you read that into it

You are stonewalling with what is called the invincible ignorance fallacy.

 

[brightfame52]

You are stonewalling with what is called the invincible ignorance fallacy.

Nothing is said about giving Judas eternal life there you read that into it

 

[electedbyHim]

You are stonewalling with what is called the invincible ignorance fallacy.

Show in the Bible where Judas rented of his sins leading to salvation.


You cannot, it is not there.

 

[Runningman]

Show in the Bible where Judas rented of his sins leading to salvation.


You cannot, it is not there.

Judas repented of his sin of betrayal here:

Matt 27
3Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,