Jesus spoke to his disciples and told them they're getting eternal life. Judas was a disciple. Case closed.
But since you want to reason like that, where is your name written in the Bible? By your own standard, aren't you "reading into it?"
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Jesus Died For You To Be Saved
- Thread starter Frank Broom
- Start date
But since you want to reason like that, where is your name written in the Bible? By your own standard, aren't you "reading into it?"
Premise 1: 24 The Son of Man is to go [to the cross], just as it is written [in Scripture] of Him; but woe (judgment is coming) to that man [Judas] by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.”
Premise 2: All those in heaven has eternal life and it doesn't get better that to be such a person
Conclusion: Since there's nothing better than to live for eternity in heaven and since Judas would be better off if "he had never been born" we can safely conclude Judas is NOT in heaven
John 17:12 While I [Jesus] was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
Conclusion: Jesus explicitly says that "son of perdition" was to perish (go to hell) which is Judas Iscariot.
There are varying degrees of assurance about one's probability of going to heaven .... but I sure wouldn't trade my chances with my understanding of Judas' chances. I think Hunter Biden's odds of going to heaven are better than those of Judas. *giggle*
Premise 2: All those in heaven has eternal life and it doesn't get better that to be such a person
Conclusion: Since there's nothing better than to live for eternity in heaven and since Judas would be better off if "he had never been born" we can safely conclude Judas is NOT in heaven
John 17:12 While I [Jesus] was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
Conclusion: Jesus explicitly says that "son of perdition" was to perish (go to hell) which is Judas Iscariot.
There are varying degrees of assurance about one's probability of going to heaven .... but I sure wouldn't trade my chances with my understanding of Judas' chances. I think Hunter Biden's odds of going to heaven are better than those of Judas. *giggle*
And 2 verses later, he went and killed himself.
Matthew 27:3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Matthew 27:4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!”
Matthew 27:5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself
True repentance results in fturning away from sin and to Jesus Christ.
Judas regretted what he did.
Used in Matthew 27:3
μεταμέλομαι
metamelomai; from 3326 and 3199; to regret; to change one’s mind: — change his mind(1), felt remorse(1), regret(3), regretted(1).
Used in Matthew 3:2
μετανοέω
metanoeō
Total KJV Occurrences: 34
repent, 21
Mat_3:2 (2), Mat_4:17, Mar_1:15, Mar_6:12, Luk_13:3, Luk_13:5, Luk_16:30, Luk_17:3-4 (2), Act_2:38, Act_3:19, Act_8:22, Act_17:30, Act_26:20, Rev_2:5 (2), Rev_2:16, Rev_2:21-22 (2), Rev_3:3, Rev_3:19
repented, 11
Mat_11:19-21 (3), Mat_12:41, Luk_10:13, Luk_11:32, 2Co_12:21, Rev_2:21, Rev_9:20-21 (2), Rev_16:9, Rev_16:11
repenteth, 2
Luk_15:7, Luk_15:10
Judas did not truly repent, he "felt" guilt.
Your translation is the KJV I believe. My understanding it, is not an accurate transaltion.
KJV
Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
NASB
Matthew 27:3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
When a sinner repents of sin, he doesn't do sin anymore.
However if he goes out and commits other sins later, his repentance is shown to be a lie.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Nothing is said about giving Judas eternal life there you read that into it. Judas was chosen into his office in order to fulfill his role of perdition. He was prophesied about back in the ot scripture. Zech wrote of it in the Spirit of prophecy Zech 11:12-13
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.
Matt 26 :14-15
14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests,
15 And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.
The Psalm 41:9
9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
Jesus spoke of that here Jn 13:8
18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Jesus said Judas was lost/perdition that the scripture may be fulfilled Jn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Men are chosen either for Salvation or Perdition, one or the other Phil 1:28
And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
Now which one was judas chosen for ?
This is not Biblical in anyway no matter how you spin it.
I will not answer, please stop replying to my posts.
Does "repent" mean "turn from" to you ?
It does to me.
You don't need to reply, you just need to define "repent".
This unbiblical, abominable heresy of sinless perfectionism needs to stop, for your sake.
1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (ESV)
John is writing to believers and including himself in "we," "us," and "our." How verse 9 actually reads in the Greek is:
"If we keep on confessing our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
The fact that John said that a person is to continually confess their sins precludes this verse from being about unbelievers. Confessing sin is something that believers are to be doing continually. Why? Because believers continue to struggle with sin. Any "believer" who says they are without sin is self-deceived, doesn't have the truth, makes God a liar, and doesn't have his word in them, according to the inspired writing of John.
Unfortunately for the defenders of sin, it is biblical, and totally achievable by man.
Jesus commanded it in Matt 5:48, and then died to make us sin free.
Our participation in that death and burial has allowed us to walk in newness of life.
It has allowed the destruction of the old man, and our rebirth as new creatures.
Those obedient to God, have been reborn of God's incorruptible seed.
So true, but addressing only those who are walking in darkness.
Those walking in darkness, which Pro 4:19 says is "wickedness", can't honestly say they have no sin.
Or that they have fellowship with God.
Or that they know God at all.
Those walking in the light-God, can say all those things the folks in darkness can't.
Thanks be to God for scriptures like...
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as you Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matt 5:48)
“I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:22-23)
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)
"Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)
"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)
"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)
"Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you." (2 Cor 13:11)
Thanks be to God !
It’s blasphemous to sin, as you do, and say that it isn’t sin. That’s why John says it makes God a liar.
What is it called when, by the grace of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, one stays true to their repentance from sin ?
It is called...Christianity.
John’s point is that anyone who thinks they are a true believer and claims to be a true believer, yet claims to be without sin, cannot be a true believer. This is because all true believers, those who have been justified by faith in Christ, still struggle with sin.
So, for a “true believer” to claim they are without sin means they either don’t have the Holy Spirit, who will convict them of their sin, and so are self-deceived, or they call their sin, “not sin,” and make God a liar for calling sin, “sin.”
That is why John says true believers are to continually confess their sins—to be obedient to the Holy Spirit’s conviction and agree with God that sin is wrong. Sin stands between us and God—it negatively affects our relationship with him (although not our righteous standing)—which is why we need to continually confess our sins, receive forgiveness, and be cleansed.
Ignores a lot of scripture so doesn't really hold much water, but thank you for atleast trying to interact with the Scripture and participate in this conversation. For starters, we already have a direct statement by Jesus to his disciples that they would be given eternal life. Since Judas is a disciple then when Jesus spoke to his disciples he was also speaking to Judas. This is all in Matthew 19:28,29.
So when you kept saying "you are reading into it" because Judas isn't directly mentioned, then what you are doing when you won't even address or acknowledge the evidence? Applying your same line of reasoning to Scripture then literally no one has salvation ever because their name isn't mentioned. This is evidence you have a false interpretation.
So did Judas demonstrably meet the requirements for salvation? Yes. The requirements are whatever God says they are, but these very things are written in Scripture and Judas Judas was indeed a believer.
Sure. I also quoted some from Mark 16 below because the believer not only has the power to cast out devils, but is also saved. Jesus gave Judas that power to cast out devils... that's pretty good evidence Judas at least had salvation at one point.
Matthew 10
1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mark 16
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Nothing is said about giving Judas eternal life there you read that into it
You miss the point of the last several posts.
Especially refering to judas and his wordly remorse.
When the Lord saved you and you repented, dis you want to go out and kill yourself?
That burden of sin was lifted and paid for, no guilt (remorse) would have remained after conversion.
No, it isn't.
His observations are that those who walk in sin cannot say they have fellowship with God, (1 John 1:6), and that they cannot say they know God, (1 John 2:3-4), and they cannot say they have so sin. (1 John 1:8)
His observation is that those who do walk in God can say they have fellowship with God, that they can know God, and that they can say they have so sin.
As God is light, and in Him is no sin, it stands to reason that there can't be any sin in those in God either.
It means they are walking in God.
True believers repent of sin, before being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and never sin again.
It is the revolving door-pseudo-Christians that go back and forth between sin and holiness.
Every sin manifesting that the last repentance was a lie to God.
That double minded man is unstable in all his ways. (James 1:8)
"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
I don't see any promise of salvation in that verse.
Salvation is dependent on enduring until the end.
If the belief fades, or was never true to begin with, there will be no salvation.
Yes, it is.
His observations are that those who continually walk in willful, habitual, unrepentant sin cannot say they have fellowship with God. A believer's sin doesn't remove his right standing with God, but it negatively affects the relational aspects. This is why John states that believers are to be continually confessing their sins.
No, his point is the very opposite of what you're saying. Those who walk with God cannot say they are without sin, or they are not actually walking with God.
No, it doesn't stand to reason. You can't just claim it does; you need to provide serious proof or a sound argument as to how that can be the case.
That believers "never sin again" is an abominable heresy; that is never taught in Scripture. In fact, the Bible makes it abundantly clear that believers continue to struggle with sin, which is precisely what John writes about in 1 John 1:8-2:1; 5:16. It also makes most of the NT commands absolutely meaningless.
Sanctification is both a position and a process. That is, we are set apart when we are justified, but we grow in holiness until our death or Christ returns. The irony is, it is your position that makes John say a person is saved, then not saved, then saved again, etc.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (ESV)
Again, John literally states, "If we keep on confessing our sins." If, as you state, people confesses once, are saved, and never sin again, then John is speaking nonsense. The only way to make sense of that according to your position, is that we confess, are saved, sin and become unsaved, confess, become saved again, etc. But that also contradicts your position. So, once again, John would be speaking nonsense.
According to the biblical position, a person repents and is justified by faith in Christ, and so is saved from the penalty of sin (death), but still needs to be saved from the power of sin. This is why a true believer still struggles with sin and needs to continually repent, seeking God's forgiveness and cleansing. That is how a believer grows in holiness. We are commanded to be holy and commanded to avoid all manner of vices and sins, which is all meaningless if we are perfectly holy already.
If someone continues to live in willful, habitual, unrepentant sin, then yes, but every believer from the very beginning has continued to struggle with sin. True believers are saved from the penalty of sin; they have gone from death to life.
Your proof-texting is all out of context and not doing your position any favors.