Jesus Died For You To Be Saved

[Hopeful 2]

OK, then your water baptism is of necessity to be saved. You're depending on another man to perform a ceremony on your behalf for you to be saved. That is a work based salvation.

So what ?
It isn't any work of the Law that Paul wrote against. ie...circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, etc., to be saved.

Our Lord commanded us to be water baptized not out of necessity for our sins to be forgiven, but to confess our union with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection.

That isn't scriptural.
Peter's words to the Jews in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, immediately after having received the gift of the Holy Ghost, were..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Ananias told Paul, at Damascus,..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)

I was water baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit for a completely different reason than you.

I bet you still commit sin too.
When I was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, I received an added benefit.
The destruction of the old man, (Rom 6:6), ending my walk in the "flesh" and the start of my walk in the Spirit. (Gal 5:24)
Those walking in the Spirit, don't commit sin.

 

[LeviR]

That's true. According to his genealogy he was descended from Adam. I believe people get that idea that since Jesus was sinless that he must have been God. That isn't it. It's that Jesus is a man who overcame the world because God is his Father. We, too, can overcome the world if God is our Father. We can escape the corruption in the world, escape evil desires, and partake directly of the divine nature, just like Jesus did, and overcome the world.

I think at some point early on, people realized that there is nothing easy about real Christianity and began changing things around to make it more attractive and easier. I've identified several false doctrines that they use to prop up the doctrine about Jesus being God and one of them, of course, is the doctrine about original sin. Jesus wasn't born a sinner, after all, then neither are we.

They make up all sorts of ideas about the nature of Jesus because they don’t believe the Bible.
Some say Adam didn’t have a sinful nature ignoring the fact he sinned.
Adam transgressed the law of God because he was tempted by being drawn away and enticed by his own desires. Which proves without doubt his nature was sinful.
Because people don’t believe God would create man with a sinful nature they reject the truth as detailed in scripture and make up falsehoods.
Adam was simply the natural man made from dust, and as such was “very good”.
But what is better is the man born of the Spirit, immortal, with a spiritual physical body, that is immune to being tempted and without a sinful nature, and therefore is not subject to the wages of sin, which is death.

 

[Hopeful 2]

They make up all sorts of ideas about the nature of Jesus because they don’t believe the Bible.
Some say Adam didn’t have a sinful nature ignoring the fact he sinned.
Adam transgressed the law of God because he was tempted by being drawn away and enticed by his own desires. Which proves without doubt his nature was sinful.
Because people don’t believe God would create man with a sinful nature they reject the truth as detailed in scripture and make up falsehoods.
Adam was simply the natural man made from dust, and as such was “very good”.
But what is better is the man born of the Spirit, immortal, with a spiritual physical body, that is immune to being tempted and without a sinful nature, and therefore is not subject to the wages of sin, which is death.

Not "immune to being tempted".
"Immune to giving in to temptation" is better.

 

[brightfame52]

To clarify, I think this should be something along the lines of "Jesus Died For You To Be Savable" otherwise it sounds a bit like Universalism.

He died so people can be savable ? Thats not correct, Christ died so that them He died for, all the Father gave Him, will be saved, its promised they shall be saved by Him Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

See He is a Saviour not a potential saviour !

 

[LeviR]

That's true. According to his genealogy he was descended from Adam. I believe people get that idea that since Jesus was sinless that he must have been God. That isn't it. It's that Jesus is a man who overcame the world because God is his Father. We, too, can overcome the world if God is our Father. We can escape the corruption in the world, escape evil desires, and partake directly of the divine nature, just like Jesus did, and overcome the world.

I think at some point early on, people realized that there is nothing easy about real Christianity and began changing things around to make it more attractive and easier. I've identified several false doctrines that they use to prop up the doctrine about Jesus being God and one of them, of course, is the doctrine about original sin. Jesus wasn't born a sinner, after all, then neither are we.

Another idea that the Bible rejects is the one which speaks of Adam losing the image of God when he sinned. And the one which says Adam died spiritually when he sinned.
Both are unbiblical.
God told Adam that on the day he ate of the fruit he would die. This simply refers to Adam being condemned that day.
He was a condemned man on death row. A dead man walking. Dead in trespasses and sin. The dead who bury their dead.

 

[Hopeful 2]

He died so people can be savable ? Thats not correct, Christ died so that them He died for, all the Father gave Him, will be saved, its promised they shall be saved by Him Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

See He is a Saviour not a potential saviour !

To those who refuse Him, He is nothing but a foot-note in history.

 

[LeviR]

Not "immune to being tempted".
"Immune to giving in to temptation" is better.

Same thing.
If it were always possible for a man raised with a physical spiritual body to sin, then death could never be destroyed. Because the wages of sin is death. But in fact, death is the last enemy to be destroyed. Which means sin will no longer be a possibility.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Same thing.

No, they are not.
Jesus was tempted, so not immune to temptation.

If it were always possible for a man raised with a physical spiritual body to sin, then death could never be destroyed.

It is up to us to keep walking in that Spirit and our responsibility to remain faithful.
If we stop walking in the Spirit, and stop being faithful, we will be lost on the day of judgement.

Because the wages of sin is death.

Didn't you die what you were crucified with Christ ? (Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24)
I was, so have already suffered that death...and was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life !

But in fact, death is the last enemy to be destroyed. Which means sin will no longer be a possibility.

I will never die.
The vessel I am using may fade away, but I will live forever !

 

[LeviR]

Same thing.
If it were always possible for a man raised with a physical spiritual body to sin, then death could never be destroyed. Because the wages of sin is death. But in fact, death is the last enemy to be destroyed. Which means sin will no longer be a possibility.

When Jesus was raised to die no more, it means he can no longer be tempted to sin. It’s the divine nature as opposed to the sinful nature.
Jesus said that in the resurrection they shall be as the angels of God. Neither do they marry nor do they die.
The angels of God don’t have a sinful nature. And those who say they do, reject Jesus.

 

[LeviR]

No, they are not.
Jesus was tempted, so not immune to temptation.

It is up to us to keep walking in that Spirit and our responsibility to remain faithful.
If we stop walking in the Spirit, and stop being faithful, we will be lost on the day of judgement.

Didn't you die what you were crucified with Christ ? (Rom 6:3-7, Gal 5:24)
I was, so have already suffered that death...and was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life !

I will never die.
The vessel I am using may fade away, but I will live forever !

Man was not created with an immortal soul. In fact, the Bible never even uses the term “immortal soul”. It’s a made up doctrine of the RCC.
An immortal soul is a soul that never dies. Therefore, an immortal soul does not need saving.

Reason eliminates contradiction. That’s why it’s number ONE!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Man was not created with an immortal soul. In fact, the Bible never even uses the term “immortal soul”. It’s a made up doctrine of the RCC.
An immortal soul is a soul that never dies. Therefore, an immortal soul does not need saving.

Reason eliminates contradiction. That’s why it’s number ONE!

I never said anything about any immortal soul.
Why change the channel ?

Besides, an immortal soul can spend eternity in hell if it isn't converted.
Do you think man just disappears when he dies ?
Isn't that a doctrine of the Sadducees ?

 

[LeviR]

I never said anything about any immortal soul.
Why change the channel ?

Besides, an immortal soul can spend eternity in hell if it isn't converted.
Do you think man just disappears when he dies ?
Isn't that a doctrine of the Sadducees ?

I’m speaking of the natural man made from dust as opposed to the man from heaven raised with a spiritual physical body.
The first is mortal and sinful. The second is immortal and not sinful.
When Christ resurrects many of the dead, some will be raised with an immortal body and some with their old mortal body.

 

[Charlie24]

So what ?
It isn't any work of the Law that Paul wrote against. ie...circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, etc., to be saved.

That isn't scriptural.
Peter's words to the Jews in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, immediately after having received the gift of the Holy Ghost, were..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Ananias told Paul, at Damascus,..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)

I bet you still commit sin too.
When I was water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, I received an added benefit.
The destruction of the old man, (Rom 6:6), ending my walk in the "flesh" and the start of my walk in the Spirit. (Gal 5:24)
Those walking in the Spirit, don't commit sin.

I wouldn't want to face Christ knowing I credited water baptism in any way for the forgiveness of my sins.

I'll face Him crediting His atoning Blood for the forgiveness of my sins, and that alone.

But I agree to disagree, let the Lord be the Judge.

 

[LeviR]

I wouldn't want to face Christ knowing I credited water baptism in any way for the forgiveness of my sins.

I'll face Him crediting His atoning Blood for the forgiveness of my sins, and that alone.

But I agree to disagree, let the Lord be the Judge.

Jesus already knows baptism is the will of God, that’s why he was baptized.

 

[Runningman]

He died so people can be savable ? Thats not correct, Christ died so that them He died for, all the Father gave Him, will be saved, its promised they shall be saved by Him Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

See He is a Saviour not a potential saviour !

It's conditional because salvation can be lost. For example, Jesus was also given Judas Iscariot but what happened him? According to scripture Judas was lost. So we have a clear example that someone who was given to Jesus was indeed lost after all.

John 17
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[Runningman]

A man being drawn away and enticed by his own desires is the definition of a sinful nature and temptation.
Without law there is no sin, and sin is the transgression of the law of God.
The fact that Jesus was tempted in all ways as we are, shows that his nature was sinful just as ours.
The only difference is that he overcame that nature by not sinning himself.
To say his nature was different than ours is to say he was not under the law of sin and death. If not under the law of sin and death he would not be mortal. But he was, and that’s why he was.
Those who deny this, rob Jesus of his glory in overcoming the world.

And according to Romans 9 Jesus was indeed an ethnic Jew under the law and covenant.

Romans 9 (RSV)
4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; 5 to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[Runningman]

Another idea that the Bible rejects is the one which speaks of Adam losing the image of God when he sinned. And the one which says Adam died spiritually when he sinned.
Both are unbiblical.
God told Adam that on the day he ate of the fruit he would die. This simply refers to Adam being condemned that day.
He was a condemned man on death row. A dead man walking. Dead in trespasses and sin. The dead who bury their dead.

I always found it interesting that after Adam ate the fruit, God said in Gen. 3:22 "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil..." so actually Adam became more like the image of God after eating the fruit. The question is, why is that a problem and if Adam became more like God after eating the fruit then where did God get the knowledge of good and evil from?

 

[LeviR]

I always found it interesting that after Adam ate the fruit, God said in Gen. 3:22 "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil..." so actually Adam became more like the image of God after eating the fruit. The question is, why is that a problem and if Adam became more like God after eating the fruit then where did God get the knowledge of good and evil from?

I don’t think the knowing of good and evil has anything to do with image. It has to do with knowledge. The knowledge that they were evil and God was good.
Adam was created in the image of God and His angels (Us).
“To know” evil refers to having experienced it.
When Adam became as the gods(angels) knowing good and evil it must mean that the angels themselves had experienced evil. This would have been before they had become of the divine nature.
I suspect the angels had a previous existence on earth.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I’m speaking of the natural man made from dust as opposed to the man from heaven raised with a spiritual physical body.
The first is mortal and sinful.

The first can be crucified with Christ, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
It happens at baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Rom 6:4)
Those with faith to adhere to that which Peter commanded in Acts 2:38, become new creatures here on earth.

The second is immortal and not sinful.

The first was just a body: a vessel.
It is neither sinful nor sinless.
The deeds of the body are initiated by the mind.

When Christ resurrects many of the dead, some will be raised with an immortal body

True.

and some with their old mortal body.

I don't know what they are going to get, but I know it will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I wouldn't want to face Christ knowing I credited water baptism in any way for the forgiveness of my sins.

Even though both Peter and Ananias preached it ?

I'll face Him crediting His atoning Blood for the forgiveness of my sins, and that alone.

How is that blood applied to your vessel ?

But I agree to disagree, let the Lord be the Judge.