Jesus Died For You To Be Saved

[brightfame52]

To those who refuse Him, He is nothing but a foot-note in history.

False, those who refuse Christ, whom He died for, they are saved and converted into His servants and believers.

 

[brightfame52]

It's conditional because salvation can be lost. For example, Jesus was also given Judas Iscariot but what happened him? According to scripture Judas was lost. So we have a clear example that someone who was given to Jesus was indeed lost after all.

John 17
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

False salvation from Christ is eternal and cant be lost. Heb 9 12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

His Salvation causes obedience and its eternal.

 

[Charlie24]

Even though both Peter and Ananias preached it ?

How is that blood applied to your vessel ?

Ananias knew salvation came only by the blood of the Lamb.

He sent Paul to be water baptized for the people who feared him to see his profession of faith that his sins were washed away. He now belonged to Christ.

Paul was saved on the road to Damascus when he said, "Lord, what will you have me do?" He there gave his heart to Christ.

The blood was applied spiritually by "the circumcision made without hands, the circumcision of the heart" in the spiritual realm. His water baptism was his physical evidence of what happened in the spirit.

He died with Christ (entering the water) was buried with Christ (lowered into the water) and raised a new man in Christ (coming up out of the water).

 

[Tenchi]

There is no condemnation to those who receive Jesus, none from God because He doesn't see you based on how you see you. He sees you as his word says, holy, righteous because it's not based on your actions. Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Before you did one sin you were a sinner(that was your nature). You were not made a sinner based on what you did, but by what someone else did. So likewise, you are not made righteous based on your actions(it's your new nature). It's not based on your action, but by the action of Jesus, the last Adam.

Deuteronomy 24:16
16 "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.

Long before the apostle Paul existed, God had declared this law. No man (or woman) inherits the guilt of another; we are only responsible for our own sin. So, then, how are Paul's words in Romans 5 to be understood?

Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Paul is very clear here that sin and death afflict each person because each person sins, not because they've inherited Adam's sin-guilt and its resulting penalty of death. Why does every person sin? Because, like Adam, they all have a disposition toward self-will and rebellion, which is sin. Paul described the problem we all share with Adam this way:

Romans 7:5
5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.

Romans 7:21-24
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,
23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

Paul, here, doesn't blame Adam for his sin but a "law of sin" in his flesh ("in my members") that wars against the "law of my mind," taking him captive to sin. Like Adam, Paul (and you and I) have a "sin nature," an innate tendency toward self-will (and the sin it always produces), that is provoked to rebellion by the law of God.

So, then, the lost person is not under God's condemnation and wrath because of something someone else did but because "all have sinned" and thus come under the condemnation and death of the law of God. This is why every person requires salvation, not because God has imputed Adam's sin to everyone else against His own command never to do such a thing.

Romans 3:23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Matthew 16:27
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

So, it was God's idea first not mans that God wants to be good to you.

It is not an "idea" that God has had to be good to us, as though He could have had some other idea that might have led Him to be capricious, evil and cruel. No, it's because God's very nature is goodness that He is good to us.

His hand is extended to you right now and every second. Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. He's knocking right now at the door of your heart, but will you open it and receive him in.

It's very easy just pray: Dear God- I know I have sinned and I now turn from them and I invite Jesus to come into my heart (Revelation 3:20). He died for my sins and you have raised him from the dead and I now confess that Jesus is my Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9,10). I thank you for saving me, Amen

But who is it to whom the lost sinner is speaking? What does it mean to how they approach Him that God is God Almighty, Maker, Sustainer and Ruler of Everything? Yes, Jesus will enter into a life when the "door" to that life is opened to him, but he enters as the Creator, God and King of the universe. He is not some creamy-skinned, milquetoast fellow, with long hair and startlingly blue eyes, staring longingly at you and biting his nails in anxiety over whether or not you'll let him in. Not hardly:

Revelation 1:12-18
12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest.
14 The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire,
15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters.
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last,
18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

This is the one in whom we all must trust for our salvation. He is our Great Saviour AND he is our God and King, our Lord - or he should be.

Romans 10:9-10
9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

The one, then, to whom we "open the door of our heart" is not "supping" with us as an equal, or near-equal, but as our Maker and God. Yes, we can have fellowship with him - which is utterly amazing! - but that fellowship is always as an immeasurably Superior Person to an immeasurably inferior one. So, then, our salvation is not merely a "get out of hell free" card we obtain by a special prayer asking for it, but is a Person with whom we come into relationship as inferior to Superior.

1 John 5:11-12
11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 1:1-4
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Our Salvation, Jesus Christ, intends for us to "sup" with him, but we can only do so his way, under his rules and according to who he is. There is no salvation apart from entering into relationship with Christ, with God, with the Holy Spirit as creature to Creator, sheep to Shepherd, branch to Vine, bond-slave to Master. How often, though, lost people are told that salvation is merely an escape from hell rather than the exchange of an old, sinful, rebellious life for a new life of submission to, and fellowship with, God Almighty that it actually is.

Who wouldn't want to escape hell - especially when it just takes a quick prayer to do so? Far fewer are those who want to place themselves under the constant control of their holy Maker as a "living sacrifice" to Him. But this is the heart of the saved person's relationship with God - or it ought to be. One cannot be "walking with God," and not be in constant, conscious submission to Him. He's GOD; there's no other dynamic within which one can truly relate with Him except as obedient inferior to Masterful Superior.

Romans 11:33-12:1
33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?”
36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.
1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

 

[LeviR]

Deuteronomy 24:16
16 "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.

Long before the apostle Paul existed, God had declared this law. No man (or woman) inherits the guilt of another; we are only responsible for our own sin. So, then, how are Paul's words in Romans 5 to be understood?

Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Paul is very clear here that sin and death afflict each person because each person sins, not because they've inherited Adam's sin-guilt and its resulting penalty of death. Why does every person sin? Because, like Adam, they all have a disposition toward self-will and rebellion, which is sin. Paul described the problem we all share with Adam this way:

The scripture makes it very clear that Adam’s sin has brought death to himself and to everyone after him.

I don’t blame Adam for the fact that I will die. I simply see it as my misfortune to have been made like him. He was made directly from the earth and I indirectly from him.
Those of the earth are all alike. They all die.
Man has no advantage over any other beast of the earth. As the one dies so does the other.

 

[LeviR]

The scripture makes it very clear that Adam’s sin has brought death to himself and to everyone after him.

I don’t blame Adam for the fact that I will die. I simply see it as my misfortune to have been made like him. He was made directly from the earth and I indirectly from him.
Those of the earth are all alike. They all die.
Man has no advantage over any other beast of the earth. As the one dies so does the other.

The judgment against me is not because of Adam’s sin, but because I share his nature.
Christ shared that same nature. It was therefore the judgment against him that he too must die.
It is the earthy nature that must be put to death.
When Christ was on the cross, human nature was on the cross, and being put to death for what it is, sinful.
It was to Christ’s own advantage that his nature be put to death so that he, as well as those in him, may partake of the divine nature by resurrection from the dead.
Christ denied all drawing and enticement of his own nature, his own flesh, to transgress the law of God, and therefore God accepted his sacrifice.
Heb 2:14 and Rom 8:3 are parallel verses which speak of the same thing.

 

[Tenchi]

The scripture makes it very clear that Adam’s sin has brought death to himself and to everyone after him.

Adam's sin introduced death into the world, yes, but we don't share any guilt or blame for his sin. Adam's sin is his own, he alone is guilty for what he did, just as we are guilty for our own sin.

Man has no advantage over any other beast of the earth.

??? No advantage? You mean only in respect to dying, I hope.

 

[Hopeful 2]

False, those who refuse Christ, whom He died for, they are saved and converted into His servants and believers.

As He died for everyone, it is our subjection to Him that will end up separating the believers from the unbelievers.
It is written..."And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (2 Cor 5:15)
And..."For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

 

[LeviR]

Adam's sin introduced death into the world, yes, but we don't share any guilt or blame for his sin. Adam's sin is his own, he alone is guilty for what he did, just as we are guilty for our own sin.



??? No advantage? You mean only in respect to dying, I hope.

Not “introduced death” but brought death. He brought it to himself and everyone else.
“For all have sinned” is past tense. It means when he sinned all sinned.

Rom 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

If Paul meant “for that all DO sin” or that all will sin, he would have said so.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Ananias knew salvation came only by the blood of the Lamb.

He sure did, but as Jesus had been taken away, His blood could only be applied by faith in baptism in His name for the remission of past sins.

He sent Paul to be water baptized for the people who feared him to see his profession of faith that his sins were washed away. He now belonged to Christ.

You have no scriptural proof of that, and in fact end up denying exactly what Acts 22:16 says..."And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Paul was saved on the road to Damascus when he said, "Lord, what will you have me do?" He there gave his heart to Christ.

Paul will be saved when he finds out his name is in the book of life.

The blood was applied spiritually by "the circumcision made without hands, the circumcision of the heart" in the spiritual realm.

Yep...both those things occur at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

His water baptism was his physical evidence of what happened in the spirit.

That is an odd way of looking at it,
His baptism was the actual event of the remission of Paul's past sins, (Acts 2:38), and his circumcision done without hands, (Gal 5:24), and the destruction of the old man so he could be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Rebirth.

He died with Christ (entering the water) was buried with Christ (lowered into the water) and raised a new man in Christ (coming up out of the water).

Yes, he did.
All things that would not have happened without his water baptism.

 

[LeviR]

Adam's sin introduced death into the world, yes, but we don't share any guilt or blame for his sin. Adam's sin is his own, he alone is guilty for what he did, just as we are guilty for our own sin.



??? No advantage? You mean only in respect to dying, I hope.

ἐφ᾽ ᾧ

Translated as “for that” all have sinned. Rom 5:12

Actually means “on the basis of” or “on the condition of” whom all have sinned.

Rom 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, ‘on the basis/condition of’ whom all have sinned.

Hope that straightens it out for ya.

 

[Runningman]

False salvation from Christ is eternal and cant be lost. Heb 9 12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

His Salvation causes obedience and its eternal.

That’s your doctrine, yes, but Scripture demonstrates otherwise. Not only is there the story of Judas who was given to Jesus and lost, but there are numerous statements about this in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 15
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

 

[NoahK]

Does that mean I don’t have to die anymore?
If the wages of sin is death, and Jesus took my place, and paid for my sins, that means I don’t have to die.

I was thinking that Jesus himself had to be saved from death through resurrection from the dead. And if we look to him as the accepted sacrifice, we too may be raised from the dead like he was.

Here is how I understand the verse you posted.

If all are deemed guilty, then through repentance all can be deemed saved. The probelm however is, some accept Christ's Sacrifice for our sin when they exercise their free will. Others exercise their free will to not accept Christ's Sacrifice. And ultimately every one of us will be judged based on all the choices we make on a daily basis in this earthly part of our journey.

I believe the key to the verse are these words: if we look to him as the accepted sacrifice

 

[brightfame52]

As He died for everyone, it is our subjection to Him that will end up separating the believers from the unbelievers.
It is written..."And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again." (2 Cor 5:15)
And..."For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

False, those who refuse Christ, whom He died for, they are saved and converted into His servants and believers.

 

[brightfame52]

That’s your doctrine, yes, but Scripture demonstrates otherwise. Not only is there the story of Judas who was given to Jesus and lost, but there are numerous statements about this in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 15
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Salvation from Christ is eternal and cant be lost. Heb 9 12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 5:9

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

His Salvation causes obedience and its eternal.

 

[Tenchi]

Not “introduced death” but brought death. He brought it to himself and everyone else.
“For all have sinned” is past tense. It means when he sinned all sinned.

I'm not clear on what difference you're trying to make between "introduced" and "brought."

It is both irrational and enormously unjust for the sin of one man to become the sin of all. God Himself forbade His Chosen People acting along these lines in the verse I cited from Deuteronomy.

Deuteronomy 24:16
16 "Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.

So, then, "For all have sinned" cannot mean what you've said it means.

Rom 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

If Paul meant “for that all DO sin” or that all will sin, he would have said so.

Paul nowhere in the verse above indicated that Adam's sin and guilt are imposed on all the rest of humanity. We all die in consequence of his sin, yes, but Adam's sin, and his guiltiness before God, are solely his own. Paul is really clear in the verse that only death "passed upon all men," not Adam's sin/guiltiness. And just so there is no confusion on this point, Paul clarified that "because (or, for) all have sinned" they all die, as Adam did; no one dies whose sin doesn't warrant death (except Christ, of course).

This is exactly what we should expect Paul to say in light of the OT command in Deuteronomy that no son shall be put to death because of the sin of his father, but "everyone shall be put to death for his own sin." Adam's sin foisted on us all is totally against God's own justice described in His divine command.

Romans 5:18-19
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

We know from many other passages in the NT, that, about the "righteousness that leads to justification and life," Paul is speaking generally and potentially; he means to say that the opportunity for "justification and life" through the righteousness of Jesus Christ is available to everybody, not that Jesus has actually imposed these things on everyone, so that all are saved, regardless of how they live and what they believe. This is the false doctrine of universalism, which the NT clearly contradicts.

Matthew 7:13-14
13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.
14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Matthew 25:45-46
45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
7 ...when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

And so on.

But if what Christ has done through his Atonement is only universally offered/available, not imposed, then how are we to understand what has happened to humanity as a result of Adam's sin? Paul is clearly using a parallelism, so the effect of Adam's sin has something in kind with Jesus' redemption of humanity. But what? If we say Adam's sin and guilt were universally-imposed on humanity, then, by virtue of the nature of the parallelism Paul used, we've got to say Jesus's redemption of humanity has been universally-imposed, also. But it hasn't, as Scripture plainly indicates.

Do we see Scripture indicating that we all must give an account before God for Adam's sin, or for our own? Only ever for our own, never for Adam's sin. Here are only a few examples:

Matthew 16:27
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

Romans 2:4-6
4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 He will render to each one according to his works:

2 Corinthians 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

And so on. So, then, in what way, exactly, is the following verse to be understood?:

19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.

How, by Adam's disobedience to God, are "the many made sinners"? It can't be that his sin/guilt has been imposed on all succeeding generations, as explained above. Unfortunately, Paul doesn't offer an explanation on this head. He says only that by way of Adam's sin the many are made sinners but not how, not the mode of, such a circumstance. One Bible scholar has put it this way:

"By one man's disobedience. By means of the sin of Adam. This affirms simply the fact that such a result followed from the sin of Adam. The word by (δια) is used in the Scriptures as it is in all books and in all languages. It may denote the efficient cause; the instrumental cause; the principal cause; the meritorious cause; or the chief occasion by which a thing occurred... It does not express one mode, and one only, in which a thing is done; but that one thing is the result of another. When we say that a young man is ruined in his character by another, we do not express the mode, but the fact. When we say that thousands have been made infidels by the writings of Paine and Voltaire, we make no affirmation about the mode, but about the fact." (Barnes' Notes on the New Testament)

 

[Hopeful 2]

False, those who refuse Christ, whom He died for, they are saved and converted into His servants and believers.

You are incorrectly saying then, that those who walk in and after the "flesh" will be saved.
I can't agree, in light of Paul's Gal 5:19-21 words..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Is Paul wrong ?

 

[brightfame52]

Tenchi

Romans 5:18-19
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

We know from many other passages in the NT, that, about the "righteousness that leads to justification and life," Paul is speaking generally and potentially; he means to say that the opportunity for "justification and life" through the righteousness of Jesus Christ is available to everybody, not that Jesus has actually imposed these things on everyone, so that all are saved, regardless of how they live and what they believe. This is the false doctrine of universalism, which the NT clearly contradicts.

This is false. Paul is not speaking potentially, and he doesnt mean an opportunity for Justification of life, but he is showing the effects of what Adam did as it regarded them he represented, and then shows the effect of what Christ did as it regarded them He representative Head of. It wasn't no potential and opportunity when the effects of what Adam did and likewise its no potential and opportunity of what Christ did. Justification of life actually comes upon all Jesus represented like the scripture says Rom 5:18

8 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Please dont shortchange/cheat what the Lord accomplished.

 

[Tenchi]

Please dont shortchange/cheat what the Lord accomplished.

I didn't. And your mere contradiction of them doesn't refute my remarks, or establish yours. Contradiction, by itself, is not actually an argument.

 

[Carbon]

The sinners prayer comes from Luke 18:13-14. The Publican prayed "God be merciful to me a sinner."

Christ said "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified."

actually, the sinner's prayer is not in the bible. no biblical support whatsoever.