Jesus' humanity

[gordon777]

Is that all we're supposed to "focus on"? Which Christ do you believe in--the one that is only divine, the one that is only human, the one that is both, the one that is just a mode of the Father, the one that became the Son at the Incarnation, or the one who has eternally been the Son?

"Or, we could just believe in what we are supposed to focus on, how Christ died for all, and rose again."


You are asking me if we should only focus on Christ being risen, to no longer know Him as we once knew Him in the flesh, as we knew other people too in the flesh, who all died, and only knew death, before Christ rose from the dead to give us hope of eternal life.

The answer again is of course we are to focus only on Christ in the Spirit, not in the flesh, otherwise we are reasoning in the flesh, evidencing we do not believe in the Spirit, which is Christ crucified and risen ( in us)

All other talk of course is diversionary, and is as Paul here testifies, they come with excellency of speech, instead of the testimony of God, whih shows how we cast 0off the flesh, as told for us to know Christ not in the flesh any longer. ( God raising Christ our Lord again from the dead.)


1 Corinthians 2: 1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[gordon777]

Free:

"With Jesus being the central figure of all of Scripture, in whose name alone we have salvation, based on his death and resurrection, do you think we can just believe whatever we want about Jesus and still be saved? If Jesus was a mere creature only, do think the sacrifice was sufficient for the salvation of all throughout history?

Jesus himself said:

Joh 8:23 And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world."




We cannot know the name of Jesus Christ without the Spirit of Jesus Christ letting us know and believe that He died to purge our sins, and is then on the right hand of power.

So the natural man, who will not believe to know Jesus Christ and all men only in the Spirit, no longer in the flesh, is openly declaring they do not believe in the Spirit, of the rising of Jesus Christ from the dead, and how He is not alive risen within them.




1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

[gordon777]

It does not matter who we think of Jesus Christ being, but that we believe in what He did, to die for us, to save us from sin and death. That is how we live through His name, and that is how we have life through HIs name, as His name was given to be saved, from sin and from death, what else do you think we are saved from ?

That is why and how the scriptures teach us simply, how Christ was crucified for us, and who God rose from the dead, and that is salvation in His name, without need for anything else.


John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[Free]

"Or, we could just believe in what we are supposed to focus on, how Christ died for all, and rose again."


You are asking me if we should only focus on Christ being risen, to no longer know Him as we once knew Him in the flesh, as we knew other people too in the flesh, who all died, and only knew death, before Christ rose from the dead to give us hope of eternal life.

That isn't quite what I'm asking. The most important question in Scripture is, "But who do you say that I am?" Who Jesus is is of utmost importance and I don't see how we can say that it doesn't matter regarding salvation. Either we believe in the Jesus of the Bible, and have salvation, or we believe in a Jesus of our own making and don't have salvation.

It does not matter who we think of Jesus Christ being, but that we believe in what He did, to die for us, to save us from sin and death. That is how we live through His name, and that is how we have life through HIs name, as His name was given to be saved, from sin and from death, what else do you think we are saved from ?

So, with Jesus being the central figure of the entirety of Scripture, in whom alone and in whose name alone there is salvation (Acts 4:14), and by whom alone there is not only the redemption of mankind but the entire cosmos, you really believe that "It does not matter who we think of Jesus Christ being"?

That is why and how the scriptures teach us simply, how Christ was crucified for us, and who God rose from the dead, and that is salvation in His name, without need for anything else.

I don't see that in Scripture. There is a very strong emphasis on who Jesus is. If Jesus was just a mere man, for example, then that means it is possible for other people to live sinless and have no need to believe in Jesus's death and resurrection. If Jesus is only divine, then he didn't truly live like us and cannot sympathize with us, as Scripture says.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Exactly. This proves my point that it does matter who we believe Jesus to be. It is by believing he "is the Christ, the Son of God," that one "might have life through his name."

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

But if Jesus is a mere human, is Jesus's blood actually going to be enough? The blood of bulls wasn't enough, so why would the blood of another creature be enough?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
...
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (ESV)

Notice that there is some parallelism going on here. Paul is essentially equating confessing "Jesus is Lord" with calling "on the name of the Lord." But verse 13 is a quote from Joel 2:32a, where it says, " And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD [Yahweh] shall be saved." That is, Paul certainly appears to be saying that one must confess not only Jesus's lordship, but that Jesus is Yahweh.

This appears to be absolute proof that who we believe Jesus to be actually matters for our salvation.

 

[Cooper]

But that is how God reveals himself in Scripture.


That God is one being is confirmed by the doctrine of the Trinity.

If you believe the One God is three persons fair enough.
.

 

[a158701]

I ran into difficulty on another Christian forum because of my belief in Jesus' humanity. I believe that because Jesus was fully human (Hebrews 2:17 and elsewhere) He had to have been born that way, lived His life as a true human being, experiencing all that we experience, received the Holy Spirit after being baptized, took our sins on His sinless body, and was sacrificed for our sins (not His).

I was told that this was contrary to Trinitarian doctrine and was therefore false. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Not so! Jesus is the second person of the triunity or trinity of God. The Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is the third part and person of the Trinity. All three are equally God. I John says that anyone who confesses that Jesus Christ as God came in the flesh is of God I John 4:3. Those that don't come from the spirit of Antichrist.

 

[for_his_glory]

This post is for people who are able to think past political slogans.

Pregnancy is a very complex situation and fetal viability is by no means guaranteed There are numerous situations in which either the life of the fetus and/or the life of the mother are imperiled. Aside from such conditions as ectopic pregnancy, in which the fetus develops in the fallopian tube (outside the uterus) which a) has no chance of viability and b) if not aborted, the mother stands an excellent chance of dying, there are other conditions in which it is impossible for the fetus to survive outside the womb. One of these is that either the brain or a vital organ such as the heart, lungs, or kidneys, does not develop properly, guaranteeing that, if the fetus survives to term, it will die very shortly after birth, often in agony. It is senseless, heartless, and cruel not to abort this type pregnancy.

For those who mindless spout the political propaganda slogan that "abortion is murder", I challenge you to witness a situation in which the newborn baby dies an agonizing death. Think of the severe trauma that this causes the mother, any family members that may be present, the attending medical personnel, and others, then see how that jibes with your "Christian" values.

I can assure you from first person knowledge that the greatest majority (by far) of people in the medical profession who attend births are decent, moral, empathetic people, many, many of whom are Christians, and all of whom have devoted their professional lives to giving the best care to women and babies possible.

It is stupid and mindless to reduce the issue of abortion to a propaganda slogan that is divorced from faith and reason. I am thankful that, during this election, those issues designed to remove the rights of women, their families, and their medical caregivers, from making decisions regarding fetal viability and freedom, were overwhelmingly defeated.

I'm just reading along, but this is out of the blue about abortion from that of the OP unless you want to direct this thread to be about abortion which really takes away from what other members have already replied with the OP. Please keep on topic or start another thread about abortion.

 

[jaybo]

Not so! Jesus is the second person of the triunity or trinity of God. The Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is the third part and person of the Trinity. All three are equally God. I John says that anyone who confesses that Jesus Christ as God came in the flesh is of God I John 4:3. Those that don't come from the spirit of Antichrist.

Thanks for your opinion. I agree with what you wrote about the trinity, but I maintain that Jesus was fully human when He was on Earth. If you look at 1 John 4:2-3a, it says "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. " and Hebrews 2:17 says "For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people."

Jesus became fully human, was "baptized" with the Holy Spirit, was tempted in every way as we are, prayed to God, and died on the cross. None of this makes any sense if He was God when on Earth. Why would he, as God, need the Holy Spirit? Why would He pray to God if He was God??? And His deah only makes sense if He wasn't fully human, since God is eternal (He never dies.)

 

[gordon777]

That isn't quite what I'm asking. The most important question in Scripture is, "But who do you say that I am?" Who Jesus is is of utmost importance and I don't see how we can say that it doesn't matter regarding salvation. Either we believe in the Jesus of the Bible, and have salvation, or we believe in a Jesus of our own making and don't have salvation.


So, with Jesus being the central figure of the entirety of Scripture, in whom alone and in whose name alone there is salvation (Acts 4:14), and by whom alone there is not only the redemption of mankind but the entire cosmos, you really believe that "It does not matter who we think of Jesus Christ being"?


I don't see that in Scripture. There is a very strong emphasis on who Jesus is. If Jesus was just a mere man, for example, then that means it is possible for other people to live sinless and have no need to believe in Jesus's death and resurrection. If Jesus is only divine, then he didn't truly live like us and cannot sympathize with us, as Scripture says.


Exactly. This proves my point that it does matter who we believe Jesus to be. It is by believing he "is the Christ, the Son of God," that one "might have life through his name."


But if Jesus is a mere human, is Jesus's blood actually going to be enough? The blood of bulls wasn't enough, so why would the blood of another creature be enough?


Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
...
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (ESV)

Notice that there is some parallelism going on here. Paul is essentially equating confessing "Jesus is Lord" with calling "on the name of the Lord." But verse 13 is a quote from Joel 2:32a, where it says, " And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD [Yahweh] shall be saved." That is, Paul certainly appears to be saying that one must confess not only Jesus's lordship, but that Jesus is Yahweh.

This appears to be absolute proof that who we believe Jesus to be actually matters for our salvation.

Jesus Christ was born to us, and to know the "humanity" of Jesus Christ, is to know HIs name, which is, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace. ( Acts 3:15. The Prince of life.)

To know the government and HIs Throne in HIs Kingdom, was not on earth ( in earthly humanity) but to know what was established with judgement and justice for ever.

Jesus Christ confirmed exactly that His Kingdom is not of this world ( earthly humanity) but HIs Kingdom is not from here.





Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.


John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.





This is why the Son of God came to us in the form of God, and was made in the likeness of men.

But the purpose being of that fashionj of a man, was for Christ to die on the cross, then God highly exalts Him, ands then the name is given which saves us, not the name of humanities understanding on earth, but the name of Christ when He is exalted in Heaven.

Jesus Christ then in the complete image of the person of God, purged our sons and sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high, and then obtained the name more excellent than the angels, the name that God declared, that Christ was His Son, and that, that day the Father had begotten Him. ( the first begotten of the dead. Revelation 1:5.)






Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.






So when people focus on the name of Jesus Christ in humanity here on earth, they are not focused on where our hope was shown to come from, us being begotten ( with Christ the first begotten of the dead.) with Him to a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead...




1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[gordon777]

That is the Son of God declaring the name of God on earth, and that is our focus up in Heaven where Christ is on the right hand with Go nothing is on earth.

Just reading through, all becomes apparent, the glory the Son had with the Father, is not on earth, ( that is mans idea of humanity, as man is earthly and devilish...James 3:15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.)

The Son of God after being manifested to the Apostles while on earth, must show that the Son of God is gloirified in Heaven, that is the declaring of the name of God in Heaven, as knowing God on earth is not how to know God, as GOd is in Heaven.





John 4:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.




Then the mystery of God is complete, how God was believed on through Jesus Christ in the world, and being received up to glory, we believe on Him in glory, not on earth, which is how antichrists speak, as they deny the rising of the Lord Jesus Christ to life eternal., and want our focus to be on earthly things which is death, instead of eternal life, which is Jesus Christ.




1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.



1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:




To know Jesus Christ, that He is God, is to know He came to give us an understanding, and to know that the true God is eternal life, is to know He is risen, and to not dote about what men of this earth look at, humanity, instead of look to who is risen up from this world to life, as Christ is not in us on earth, but in Heaven, which is within us.




1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[D-D-W]

I ran into difficulty on another Christian forum because of my belief in Jesus' humanity. I believe that because Jesus was fully human (Hebrews 2:17 and elsewhere) He had to have been born that way, lived His life as a true human being, experiencing all that we experience, received the Holy Spirit after being baptized, took our sins on His sinless body, and was sacrificed for our sins (not His).

I was told that this was contrary to Trinitarian doctrine and was therefore false. What are your thoughts on this subject?

OK I have not read any of the previous replies so I am posting blind as it were.

No - it is in no way "contrary to Trinitarian doctrine," as it in fact is a required part of standard Trinitarianism. When someone denies the "fully human" part of our Lord, they unknowingly fall into the ancient heresy of gnosticism which was based on Greek dualism; meaning that the Spirit is all good and the physical is all bad.

There is a subtle undercurrent of that gnostic thought prevelant in modern western christianity. If people are fine talking about the cleansing power of His blood, or the miracles He did in the gospels; but gets uneasy talking about whether our Lord had sexual urges, or had to go relieve himself (pee, poo), then they are caught up in that undercurrent.

Hebrews teaches that He was tempted in every way that we are, yet without sin. You really cannot be tempted if you are not fully human.

 

[jaybo]

OK I have not read any of the previous replies so I am posting blind as it were.

No - it is in no way "contrary to Trinitarian doctrine," as it in fact is a required part of standard Trinitarianism. When someone denies the "fully human" part of our Lord, they unknowingly fall into the ancient heresy of gnosticism which was based on Greek dualism; meaning that the Spirit is all good and the physical is all bad.

There is a subtle undercurrent of that gnostic thought prevelant in modern western christianity. If people are fine talking about the cleansing power of His blood, or the miracles He did in the gospels; but gets uneasy talking about whether our Lord had sexual urges, or had to go relieve himself (pee, poo), then they are caught up in that undercurrent.

Hebrews teaches that He was tempted in every way that we are, yet without sin. You really cannot be tempted if you are not fully human.

I am happy to part ways with the administrators of that other forum. I tried in vain that to explain that believing that Jesus became fully human was not a rejection of trinitarianism but they were unable to accept that. In other words, they are a cult: if you don't go along with their dogma exactly then you are a heretic worthy of banishment.

I totally agree with you that Hebrews teaches that He was tempted in every way that we are, yet without sin. You really cannot be tempted if you are not fully human. The NIV puts this most clearly in Hebrews 2:17, "For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people." The translation that I am reading now, the NRSVue, puts it this way, "Therefore he had to become like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the people."

If Jesus was not human in every way then He had some "escape clause", i.e., He wasn't really tempted in every way as were are, He didn't suffer as we suffer, and His "death" on the cross didn't really happen. In other words, to them, Jesus was sort of faking His humanity. It is truly tragic to believe that He was actually fooling everyone by only pretending to be human.

As I said, their response clearly showed that they are a cult and cannot tolerate any divergence from their dogma. This is doubly interesting since they allow atheists and agnostics to participate, but not Christians like myself whom them claim don't believe in the Trinity.

They, like all of us, will stand before God and answer to Him.

 

[gordon777]

Even if Jesus Christ was fully human, He was born of the Spirit, the Son of God, and at age 30, again anointed of the Holy Ghost. All of this tells us He is God, it tells us nothing about being a human like everybody else.

Also we believe that He is life, which cant be kept in death, and is light, which cant be darkness.

Now, for people who continue to consider Christ in humanity, as if He is anything like themselves, He is God in Heaven, nothing like themselves, unless He dwells in them as one Spirit forever.

Conclusion, humanity is the wrong spirit ( the spirit that is antichrist and errs) but the Spirit of truth, which is Jesus Christ, cant be known in anything like the humanity that men of this world are, which is darkness, death and deceit.

 

[jaybo]

I'm just reading along, but this is out of the blue about abortion from that of the OP unless you want to direct this thread to be about abortion which really takes away from what other members have already replied with the OP. Please keep on topic or start another thread about abortion.

Oops! I posted my message in the wrong discussion. Sorry! You can delete it if you wish.

 

[Free]

I am happy to part ways with the administrators of that other forum. I tried in vain that to explain that believing that Jesus became fully human was not a rejection of trinitarianism but they were unable to accept that. In other words, they are a cult: if you don't go along with their dogma exactly then you are a heretic worthy of banishment.

I totally agree with you that Hebrews teaches that He was tempted in every way that we are, yet without sin. You really cannot be tempted if you are not fully human. The NIV puts this most clearly in Hebrews 2:17, "For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people." The translation that I am reading now, the NRSVue, puts it this way, "Therefore he had to become like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the people."

If Jesus was not human in every way then He had some "escape clause", i.e., He wasn't really tempted in every way as were are, He didn't suffer as we suffer, and His "death" on the cross didn't really happen. In other words, to them, Jesus was sort of faking His humanity. It is truly tragic to believe that He was actually fooling everyone by only pretending to be human.

As I said, their response clearly showed that they are a cult and cannot tolerate any divergence from their dogma. This is doubly interesting since they allow atheists and agnostics to participate, but not Christians like myself whom them claim don't believe in the Trinity.

They, like all of us, will stand before God and answer to Him.

The issue may have been if you denied that Jesus was also fully God, which wouldn't be in keeping with an orthodox Christology. Jesus had to have also been fully God since God cannot cease to be God. He can take on the nature of a human, as with Jesus, but cannot cease to be in divine in nature--two natures in the one person of Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

I ran into difficulty on another Christian forum because of my belief in Jesus' humanity. I believe that because Jesus was fully human (Hebrews 2:17 and elsewhere) He had to have been born that way, lived His life as a true human being, experiencing all that we experience, received the Holy Spirit after being baptized, took our sins on His sinless body, and was sacrificed for our sins (not His).

I was told that this was contrary to Trinitarian doctrine and was therefore false. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Hi Jaybo
There are problems with the above.

Jesus was fully human and fully God.
Does this mean that Jesus was born with the same sinful nature as all of humanity?
When Adam fell as the Head of all humanity, this this include Gid?
Was Jesus affected by the fall like us so that He tended toward sin until He became born again?

Some things to think about.

 

[gordon777]

How can you be fully human, when you are God ?

No human is born of the Holy Spirit.

No human has come from Heaven. Jesus Christ was in Heaven, He never left.

No human is from above.

All humans are from this world.

All have death in them, all have vanity in them, all are unworthy of God.


That is why there is one begotten of the Father, to not be known in flesh terms, as there is nothing to know Jesus Christ that way.






Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Revelation 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

 

[D-D-W]

Gordon, I find your position to be both unscriptural and gnostic. The bible clearly states our Lord was Human, and concieved of the Holy Spirit. As the Angel told Mary: With God nothing shall be impossible. (Luke 1:37) Including the physically or logically impossible.

 

[gordon777]

Gordon, I find your position to be both unscriptural and gnostic. The bible clearly states our Lord was Human, and concieved of the Holy Spirit. As the Angel told Mary: With God nothing shall be impossible. (Luke 1:37) Including the physically or logically impossible.

No human was ever conceived of the Holy Ghost, that is why Christ is the Son of God.

Christ was born in the flesh, to be the Son of man, to be the mediator between God and man. 1 Timothy 2:5.

But, having sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high, we cant know Christ as human, as He is the Spirit of Christ, that dwells in us for ever. Hebrews 1:3. 1 Peter 3:22.


Everything is quite simple and quite straight forward and very scriptural, it is all I ever knew and all I speak by, and I am ready to show anything more you may require, at any time, seeing as I am not gnostic or any other sect or denomination ever.

 

[jaybo]

Hi Jaybo
There are problems with the above.

Jesus was fully human and fully God.
Does this mean that Jesus was born with the same sinful nature as all of humanity?
When Adam fell as the Head of all humanity, this this include Gid?
Was Jesus affected by the fall like us so that He tended toward sin until He became born again?

Some things to think about.

Of course Jesus was not born with the same sinful nature as all of humanity. But neither did Jesus have immunity from sin's effect. He was tempted in every way, just as we are.

Hebrews 4:15, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin."

He was the only person who was ever able to resist sin entirely. Was He affected by sin? Yes. Was He tempted by Satan to commit sin? Yes. Did He give into that temptation? No.

I have no idea what this means: When Adam fell as the Head of all humanity, this this include Gid?