Jesus' humanity

[jaybo]

Yes , all humans, sons and daughters (Mary) are descendants of Adam .
This makes Jesus a descendant of Adam, a son of Adam . At least that is the way I see it .

Well, you see it wrong. There is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus was a descendent of Adam. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35, "The angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.

 

[jaybo]

Yes , all humans, sons and daughters (Mary) are descendants of Adam .
This makes Jesus a descendant of Adam, a son of Adam . At least that is the way I see it .

Part 2: Genealogy in the Bible is determined by the male ancestors. Jesus is a descendant of God -- the Son of God -- not of Adam.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Matthew 1:1 KJV - "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."

 

[jaybo]

Matthew 1:1 KJV - "The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Here is Matthew 1:1 from the NRSVue, "An account of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham." Clearly Abraham was a) not the first man who ever lived and b) Jesus was born much, much later than Abraham, so He was not his son (as we understand it). The same applies to David.

If you keep reading you will find this: "Now the birth of Jesus the Messiah took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been engaged to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found to be pregnant from the Holy Spirit. Her husband Joseph, being a righteous man and unwilling to expose her to public disgrace, planned to divorce her quietly. But just when he had resolved to do this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will bear a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

Clearly this demonstrates that Jesus was the Son of God.

Luke 1:32, "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David.

John 3:18, "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David.

Matthew 16:16-17, "Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven."

Matthew 8:29, "Suddenly they [the demons] shouted, “What have you to do with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torment us before the time?”

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. If you're just trying to be clever or contrary, you are getting yourself in serious trouble with God by denying that Jesus is not His Son.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

I was just pointing out the deeper issues . . . things that should really inspire us to go, "Hmmmmmm."

 

[GodsGrace]

I take issue with that. Hebrews says He was high priest and suffered everything we do. It also says He is our example. If He stayed free from sin because of His deity, how does that become an example for me, who is certainly NOT deity?
Philipians 2.7 says He emptied Himself. Dr Derek Prince (of blessed memory) who was a Greek scholar said the verse doubles that statement, He emptied Himself of Himself. IOW He laid aside all of his divine power and had to rely on the Holy Spirit for everything just as we do. That is an example I can follow.

You know DDW, this is a very complicated topic and one I don't feel competent to address.
But since you use Jesus as your example, the question would be: What miracles have you done lately?

Jesus was fully human and fully God.
This is a difficult concept to grasp and it took the church centuries to figure out.

I'll also say that we don't know who wrote Hebrews but since the Church Fathers saw fit to place it in the bible as canon, then we have to accept it somehow and try to reconcile what it states.

It also states that the NC abolished the OC and that certainly is not true.

Maybe we hang on to every word instead of seeing scripture as a whole.
I don't know.

 

[GodsGrace]

Part 2: Genealogy in the Bible is determined by the male ancestors. Jesus is a descendant of God -- the Son of God -- not of Adam.

This is true.
Jesus father was God,
He was generated from God.
Joseph was not His father...
but only His earthly father.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have the nature to sin because of the fall of Adam brining sin into the world through that of Satan's temptation he fell to in disobedience to God's command so I have a sin nature. Many teach an age of accountability when children begin to sin, but I can't find scripture on that. We are only tempted to sin by the lust of the flesh as the flesh wants what the flesh wants, even as a child, but a child has no knowledge of what sin or evil is until they are taught the difference between good and evil.

Everyone has to be Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit within the inner man/spirit in order for us to be in Christ and He in us in order to inherit the kingdom of God, John 3:5-7.

A child has no knowledge.
That's correct.
The bible doesn't have to explain that a child is born with a sinful nature,
but is not accounted with any sin.
Babies and children don't know about sin.
For something to be a sin, we have to realize and be aware that we're doing something against God.
How many kids understand this?
Thankfully, we have a merciful God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Lost sheep are lost.



Psalm 119:176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Luke 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Gordon,
You think if a 1 month old baby dies, he goes to hell?

We are not born with sin --- we are born with the effect of Adam's fall.
We are not imputed with his sin.

 

[gordon777]

Gordon,
You think if a 1 month old baby dies, he goes to hell?

We are not born with sin --- we are born with the effect of Adam's fall.
We are not imputed with his sin.

Everybody who dies, one month, one hundred years old, goes back to the earth. Then the spirit returns to God who gave it and they never exist again, all of what they were is perished for ever.

But, to undo this, is through the Spirit remaining in us, that is why all spirits that leave the body are not raised again, as we are only raised by the Spirit if the risen Lord Jesus Christ in us, then when we die that is what quickens our mortal bodies. Then it is told plainly, if anyone does not have this Spirit of Christ they are none of His, they cant live without the Spirit of life in them. ( Jesus Christ.)

Read these verses instead of living by your own opinion, as I wont share for long on a vain sharing forum.




Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


Psalm 49:19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.
20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[jaybo]

posted by accident...

 

[hawkman]

Well, you see it wrong. There is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus was a descendent of Adam. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35, "The angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.

Let me start with this . Is Jesus a descendent of Eve ?

Bear with me and we will get back to Adam .

 

[D-D-W]

You know DDW, this is a very complicated topic and one I don't feel competent to address.
But since you use Jesus as your example, the question would be: What miracles have you done lately?

I have (as an elder) prayed over the sick, and have had people recover. Not all but some.

I'll also say that we don't know who wrote Hebrews but since the Church Fathers saw fit to place it in the bible as canon, then we have to accept it somehow and try to reconcile what it states.

Not so difficult when you take the book as a whole and who it was written to: Jewish believers that were discouraged and thinking of going back to just normal Judaism.

It also states that the NC abolished the OC and that certainly is not true.

Our Rabbi is currently going thru Hebrews (this weekend was Hebrews 9) I think you will find his teaching on that very good. You can find the messages HERE: https://sonofdavid.org/live/

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I have (as an elder) prayed over the sick

You're an Elder and you have the audacity to tell people "You don't think"?

Shameful. I would avoid you like the plague.

 

[GodsGrace]

Everybody who dies, one month, one hundred years old, goes back to the earth. Then the spirit returns to God who gave it and they never exist again, all of what they were is perished for ever.

But, to undo this, is through the Spirit remaining in us, that is why all spirits that leave the body are not raised again, as we are only raised by the Spirit if the risen Lord Jesus Christ in us, then when we die that is what quickens our mortal bodies. Then it is told plainly, if anyone does not have this Spirit of Christ they are none of His, they cant live without the Spirit of life in them. ( Jesus Christ.)

Read these verses instead of living by your own opinion, as I wont share for long on a vain sharing forum.




Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ecclesiastes 12:5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


Psalm 49:19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.
20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

First of all, I am unwilling to accept Ecclesiastes regarding what happens to man after death.
I hope you're aware than in the OT it was not clearly revealed what happens to us after dying.
In fact, the Pharisees believed that the soul lived on
and the Sadducees believed that man died and returned to dust with no life at all. He just died.

Regarding Romans 8:9 and 8:11 God will quicken our bodies by the spirit that dwells in us.

Sounds good. But it denies many other verses of scripture that state that first comes death and then the judgment.
How can we be judged if we are annihilated? Hebrews 9:27

How do you explain that God will judge each as to his deeds? Romans 2:6

Revelation speaks of a judgment day.
What is there to judge if the evil are annihilated?

 

[GodsGrace]

I have (as an elder) prayed over the sick, and have had people recover. Not all but some.

Not so difficult when you take the book as a whole and who it was written to: Jewish believers that were discouraged and thinking of going back to just normal Judaism.

Our Rabbi is currently going thru Hebrews (this weekend was Hebrews 9) I think you will find his teaching on that very good. You can find the messages HERE: https://sonofdavid.org/live/

Agreed as to the meaning of Hebrews.
I believe Hebrews 6:4 is very much misinterpreted.
Will read your link.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have (as an elder) prayed over the sick, and have had people recover. Not all but some.

Not so difficult when you take the book as a whole and who it was written to: Jewish believers that were discouraged and thinking of going back to just normal Judaism.

Our Rabbi is currently going thru Hebrews (this weekend was Hebrews 9) I think you will find his teaching on that very good. You can find the messages HERE: https://sonofdavid.org/live/

Could you send the link just on Hebrews?
There's a lot on the site.

 

[D-D-W]

Could you send the link just on Hebrews?
There's a lot on the site.

Yes there is and apparently it does not have an individual URL for the message. Click on the video "Shabbat Services 11/19/2022" and go to 1:11:15 for the start of the Rabbi's message on Hebrews 9.

Hebrews 6 was on 10/30/2022 and starts at 1:23:30

 

[Tenchi]

I ran into difficulty on another Christian forum because of my belief in Jesus' humanity. I believe that because Jesus was fully human (Hebrews 2:17 and elsewhere) He had to have been born that way, lived His life as a true human being, experiencing all that we experience, received the Holy Spirit after being baptized, took our sins on His sinless body, and was sacrificed for our sins (not His).

I was told that this was contrary to Trinitarian doctrine and was therefore false. What are your thoughts on this subject?

Well, the doctrine of the Incarnation in its classical, orthodox form holds that Jesus was fully God and fully Man, taking on humanity, adding it to his deity, not the other way 'round.

- Jesus's birth was supernatural, not involving a man and normal human sexual relations (Matthew 1:8; Luke 1:34-35).

- He set aside his heavenly glory and power ("kenosis" - Philippians 2:5-8), but not his essential divine nature (John 1:1-14; Colossians 1:15; Colossians 2:9)

- Jesus put himself under the will of God the Father, in the power of the Holy Spirit carrying out the Father's will. (Matthew 26:42; John 5:30; John 6:38; John 1:32-33; Luke 4:14; Acts 10:38)

- Jesus was "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15), exhibiting both his humanness and his deity thereby, fulfilling the Law perfectly, as he declared he would do (Matthew 5:17).

- Jesus was not married, nor did he ever have sexual relations with a woman (which would have been a sin, of course, for an unmarried man). There is not the slightest biblical hint that he was anything other than a confirmed bachelor, his life as an adult aimed with intense singularity at the cross of Calvary. (Isaiah 53; John 1:36-37)

Did Jesus experience everything common to humanity? Did he labor under an addiction? Was he caught in the power of sexual perversion? Did he hold hatred for others? Did he kill babies, as was common at the time in Roman culture? Did he enslave other human beings like many did in the years Jesus walked the earth? Did Jesus suffer a debilitating disease like cancer, or leprosy, or a severe congenital malformation of his body? There is no indication anywhere in the NT that any of these things were part of his experience as the Incarnation. So, while Jesus was tempted in all points like as we are, he did not share in every experience common to humanity.

 

[jaybo]

Let me start with this . Is Jesus a descendent of Eve ?

Bear with me and we will get back to Adam .

No. He is a descendent of God: His son.