Jesus Is God: Part 1

[Corinth77777]

Were they not translated from the same Greek words? The greek does not differ the English words differ as the more modern translations use Spirit not Ghost. The KJV uses outdated terms.

Hi Randy, probably so on the first part, but did you read what I wrote?
I definitely believe there's a difference.

I thought I gave good examples, speak on how English or Greek would affect the examples.

Because they wouldn't

check out the word- and you will see Holyghost
Not only that but the many definitions. One is power, and the power of knowing..etc

NETBible: Strong -- 4151

 

[Corinth77777]

Hi Randy, probably so on the first part, but did you read what I wrote?
I definitely believe there's a difference.

I thought I gave good examples, speak on how English or Greek would affect the examples.

Because they wouldn't

check out the word- and you will see Holyghost
Not only that but the many definitions. One is power, and the power of knowing..etc

NETBible: Strong -- 4151

The Wycliffe Bible [1395]
And Jhesus ful of the Hooli Goost turnede ayen fro Jordan, and was led bi the spirit into desert fourti daies,

Tyndale Bible [1534)
Iesus then full of the holy goost returnyd fro Iordan and was caryed of ye sprete into wildernes

Miles Coverdale Bible (1535]
Iesus full of the holy goost, came agayne from Iordane, and was led of ye sprete into wyldernes,

The Bishop's Bible (1568]
Iesus, being full of the holy ghost, returned from Iordane, & was ledde by the spirite into wyldernesse,

The Geneva Bible (1587]
And Iesus full of the holy Ghost returned from Iordan, and was led by that Spirit into the wildernes,

The King James Version (1611]
And Iesus being full of the holy Ghost, returned from Iordane, and was led by the spirit into the wildernesse,

The King James Version (1769]
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

........
*2 words of same origin

Here the same word is used in Greek but one says Holy Ghost and one says spirit.

But its obvious the meaning is different.
This proves they are the same? No

 

[Randy]

As you also stated, "Jesus speaks of the HS as another." But, what else does Jesus say when he says that?

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. (ESV)
…
Joh 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." (ESV)

Joh 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. (ESV)

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

Jesus says the Holy Spirit is “another Helper.” That implies both that Jesus is the first “Helper” and that the Holy Spirit is one who is like him but distinct from him, which implies personhood. That is the plain reading of the text.

And what is a "Helper"? When we look at the Greek, it is the word parakletos, which means "helper, counselor, comforter, advocate;" all of which either are or can be actions of persons. The meaning of advocate is important since persons advocate on behalf of other persons; "its" cannot advocate for anyone or anything.

Parakletos is used only five times in the NT. In addition to the above four instances in John, the fifth is also by John here, for "advocate":

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

Jesus is said, by John, to be an advocate. It is not insignificant, then, that John records Jesus saying that he will send "another parakletos." Jesus was the first parakletos, and remains so, but in John’s gospel he was returning to the Father and the disciples still needed much help and guidance. It all points to the Spirit being a person and also being truly God, in the same way Jesus is truly God.

An advocate can only be a person. We also see in these passages that the actions of this other Helper include teaching, bringing things to remembrance, bearing witness, convicting of sin, guiding into all truth, hearing, and speaking and declaring. These are actions of personal agency, not an "it." Jesus also says it is for their advantage that he leaves and sends this Advocate. How is it, then, that having an "it" would be to their advantage? Could a chair, rock, or impersonal power do any of these things or be of an advantage when Jesus left?

Additionally, the Holy Spirit:

Acts: Matt 4:1; Acts 8:39, 16:7
Listens: John 16:13
Speaks: John 16:13-15; Acts 1:16, 10:19, 11:12, 11:28, 13:2, 15:28; 1 Tim 4:1; Heb 3:7
Can be lied to: Acts 5:3, which is the same as lying to God (5:9)
Bears witness: Rom 8:16; Heb 10:15; 1 John 5:6
Helps, intercedes, and searches: John 14:16, 15:26, 16:7; Rom 8:26-27; 1 Cor 2:10
Teaches: Luke 12:12; John 16:13; 1 Cor 2:13
Gives gifts: Acts 20:28; 1 Cor 12:11; Heb 2:4
Leads: John 16:13; Gal 5:18, Heb 9:8
Can be grieved: Eph 4:30
Can be outraged: Heb 10:29
Can be blasphemed: Matt 12:31-32
Convicts: John 16:8-11

These are all actions of personal agency. Everything about the Holy Spirit in these passages strongly imply that the Holy Spirit is a divine person who is distinct from the Father and the Son.

Ownership -Father and Son
John 16:15 New International Version (NIV)All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

John 16:13-15 New International Version (NIV)But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ
The Throne of God and the Lamb Forever
Why would Jesus need to receive His own Spirit from the Father?
Acts 2 (Fathers promise-pour out "My Spirit" )
Exalted to the right hand of God,he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear

In regard to the Spirit I see the person of the Father and in certain contexts the person of the Son. I don't read anywhere of a 3rd person.

 

[Randy]

Hi Randy, probably so on the first part, but did you read what I wrote?
I definitely believe there's a difference.

I thought I gave good examples, speak on how English or Greek would affect the examples.

Because they wouldn't

check out the word- and you will see Holyghost
Not only that but the many definitions. One is power, and the power of knowing..etc

NETBible: Strong -- 4151

I don't see a difference. We disagree.

 

[for_his_glory]

do you believe He had to deal with a fallen nature?

Please study this as hopefully it will open your eyes to what the Trinity and Deity of Christ is.

1. God is Spirit, John 4:24, not flesh and blood and in the OT either spoke directly to the prophets or by angels and also various objects like a burning bush or an ass for example. Between the OT and NT God was silent towards Israel as when they returned to Israel from the Babylonian captivity they came back as merchants and not shepherds as they were disobedient to God going after other gods, Book of Malachi.

2. Jesus being the very Spirit of God before the foundation of the world as He and the Father are one was prophesied by the Prophets in the OT and spoken of by John the Baptist in the NT as John being the forerunner of Christ calling all to repent. As foretold Christ did come as the word of God made flesh (skin, bone, blood) to be that light that shines in darkness. He came as redeemer Savior through Gods grace as Christ is our faith that all can repent of their sins and have eternal life with the Father to all who will believe in Him as Lord and Savior. John 1:1-4; 1 Peter 1:13-21

3. After the sacrifice of Christ God raised Him from the grave and as He had to ascend back up to heaven the promise was that He would never leave us or forsake us as when He ascended He sent down the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) to indwell all who will believe in Christ and His finished works on the cross. In the OT Gods Spirit fell on them for a time and purpose under heaven. Now we are indwelled with that power and authority through Gods grace that the Holy Spirit now works in us and through us teaching all things God wants us to learn. All three are Spiritual and Spiritual awaking's in us to know the will of God and walk in His statures. John 16:7-15

Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit as all three coequal Gods Spirit.

Jesus being the right arm of God. Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Jesus is the word of God. John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jesus is word, light and life that is God come in the flesh. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Gods Holy Spirit has come to indwell us and teach us. John 14: 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8


Scriptures that refer the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20

 

[for_his_glory]

do you believe He had to deal with a fallen nature?

Jesus was tempted like all of us, but never fell to the temptations for Jesus was without sin.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.


1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

 

[Corinth77777]

I don't see a difference. We disagree.

 

[Free]

The Wycliffe Bible [1395]
And Jhesus ful of the Hooli Goost turnede ayen fro Jordan, and was led bi the spirit into desert fourti daies,

Tyndale Bible [1534)
Iesus then full of the holy goost returnyd fro Iordan and was caryed of ye sprete into wildernes

Miles Coverdale Bible (1535]
Iesus full of the holy goost, came agayne from Iordane, and was led of ye sprete into wyldernes,

The Bishop's Bible (1568]
Iesus, being full of the holy ghost, returned from Iordane, & was ledde by the spirite into wyldernesse,

The Geneva Bible (1587]
And Iesus full of the holy Ghost returned from Iordan, and was led by that Spirit into the wildernes,

The King James Version (1611]
And Iesus being full of the holy Ghost, returned from Iordane, and was led by the spirit into the wildernesse,

The King James Version (1769]
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Exactly—they're all old English translations. In that verse, they each translated the Greek word pneuma as “Ghost” when used with “Holy,” but also as "Spirit," without any basis for doing so. Here are newer versions:

Luk 4:1 Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, (NKJV)

Luk 4:1 And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness (ESV)

Luk 4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, (NIV)

Luk 4:1 Then Jesus returned from the Jordan, full of the Holy Spirit, and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness (HCSB)

It's all the same word pneuma, and there is absolutely no difference between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit; they are one and the same. "Ghost" is simply a older, poorer translation when it comes to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Free]

Ownership -Father and Son
John 16:15 New International Version (NIV)All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

John 16:13-15 New International Version (NIV)But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ
The Throne of God and the Lamb Forever
Why would Jesus need to receive His own Spirit from the Father?
Acts 2 (Fathers promise-pour out "My Spirit" )
Exalted to the right hand of God,he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear

Holy Spirit = Spirit of God = Spirit of the Lord = Spirit of your Father = Spirit of Christ = Spirit of Jesus Christ = Spirit of his Son. All different names for the same person, who is neither the Father nor the Son.

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
...
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. (ESV)

First, "the Father . . . will give you another Helper." As I already pointed out, another means exactly that--one similar, but distinct. If I am at someone's house and they give me a piece of cake, and when I done ask if I want another piece, I fully expect another piece of that same cake, not the same piece I just ate, nor a piece from a different cake or something else entirely without further clarification. Second, Jesus does not say that the Father will come. Third, Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will be sent by the Father in his name. How can the Holy Spirit be either the person of the Father or the person of the Son? It makes no sense whatsoever.

In regard to the Spirit I see the person of the Father and in certain contexts the person of the Son. I don't read anywhere of a 3rd person.

So, you just ignore that Jesus said "another"? What would be the point of referring to either the Father or the Son as the Spirit or Holy Spirit when they could just say the Father or the Son? Why a third term that is completely pointless and makes things utterly confusing?

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)

Does "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean anything? Just name two persons and then add the Holy Spirit who, according to you, can be either "the person of the Father" or "the person of the Son"? How does that make sense?


Luk 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened,
Luk 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.” (ESV)

Who was the Holy Spirit here, the Father or the Son?

Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
...
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. (ESV)

Why does Paul use "Spirit of God" and "Spirit of Christ" if he really means "the person of the Father" or "the person of the Son"?


Rom 15:30 I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, (ESV)

Why the continual and consistent distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, if the Holy Spirit isn't a distinct person, but is either the Father or the Son? Again, how does that make any sense and what purpose does it serve?


1Co 2:10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. (ESV)

First, notice that Paul is using the fact that no one "knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him," as a parallel for "So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." Second, we see that a person's spirit "is in him," yet with the Spirit of God that is not stated. Third, the spirit of a person is in that person and is in some way that person, being able to know their own thoughts, but still distinct--"which is in him"--from that person. It follows that the Spirit is God, that is divine, yet is distinct from the Father.

Fourth, if "the Spirit" is the person of the Father, then it makes no sense to say that "the [Father] searches everything, even the depths of [the Father]." Fifth, if the Spirit of God is the person of the Father, then it makes no sense to say that "no one comprehends the thoughts of [the Father] except the [Father]." Sixth, nor does it makes sense to say "but the [Father] who is from [the Father]."

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
...
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (ESV)

Why the mention of the Holy Spirit if he is either the Father or the Son? And, in this case, who is it?


Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
...
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. (ESV)

Through who? Jesus. So, again, who is the Spirit in this context?


Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (ESV)

Who is the Spirit here, given that the "one Lord" is the Son and the Father is clearly the Father? Why even mention "one Spirit" if it can refer to either the Son or the Father?


Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, (ESV)

Who is the Holy Spirit in this context?


Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. (ESV)

Who is the Spirit in this context?


1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (ESV)

Who is the Spirit in this context?


That is just a small sampling, but it is clear that the Holy Spirit is always kept distinct from the Father and the Son. Why? And, again, why even have a "Holy Spirit" if that is just a reference to either the Father or the Son? It would be completely pointless and cause confusion as it makes no sense.

 

[Corinth77777]

What I saw with these titles/terms

The difference Jesus Christ vs Christ Jesus

One is before He resurrection while on earth, the other is after His resurrection

Same with Holy Ghost vs. Holy Spirit

I believe as one operates in full faith
The Spirit within moves or transforms to full power - the power of the resurrected body of Christ/ (in operation of His rightful place) victory to overcome the world/ flesh and devil
Power to work the works of the kingdom from the kingdom.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[Free]

What I saw with these titles/terms

The difference Jesus Christ vs Christ Jesus

One is before He resurrection while on earth, the other is after His resurrection

Yet, Jesus Christ is also used after his resurrection. They are one and the same.

Same with Holy Ghost vs. Holy Spirit

Again, this is simply a translation difference. They are one and the same.

 

[Corinth77777]

What I saw with these titles/terms

The difference Jesus Christ vs Christ Jesus

What is the difference in meaning between Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus?

You will discover that there is a slight difference in meaning between Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus? It is actually a difference in emphasis.

search.app

One is before He resurrection while on earth, the other is after His resurrection

Same with Holy Ghost vs. Holy Spirit

I believe as one operates in full faith
The Spirit within moves or transforms to full power - the power of the resurrected body of Christ/ (in operation of His rightful place) victory to overcome the world/ flesh and devil
Power to work the works of the kingdom from the kingdom.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Same type of concept

 

[Corinth77777]

Take this passage in John 7 :But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)]

Was Jesus Glorified no (so let's try this on)>>>so it was not Holy Spirit that was not given (?)but the Holy Ghost.
..................

Allow me consider this for a moment to see if it can be validated with the truth:

Those who believed received the Holy Spirit= to God's testimony of His Son.

Now sense Jesus has now resurrected the Holy Ghost (as EJ states) the power of the resurrected body of Christ ( now called The Spirit of Christ), is given to those that walk in complete faith.

Lets think about Jesus's Baptism for example the Father in His Glory annoited Jesus with Power -to work the works of the Kingdom and now Jesus back in His rightful place can do the same.

For consider this: When Jesus was leaving He breathed on His disciples and said receive ye the holy Spirit. But they were told to wait somewhere until the power of the Holy Spirit was given...I have to look up the passage..Im on my phone....But Im considering that the power of the Holy Spirit is the Holyghost... Jesus conquering death in the body.

So then when we in the Spirit come to a place of certainty operating in faith, having been given His Spirit ( which may just be the Spirit of God) the Spirit in us moves to a place of power. Operating in Authority of our King....as Jesus went from earth to heaven....

I also want to add- I believe there is a difference between Christ Jesus and Jesus Christ
Randy

I haven't read this all. But besides for EJ,s Article this guy seems like He is on the right track..

Check it out ..Difference between Holyghost vs. HOLY Spirit

What is the Holy Ghost? Is the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit the same thing?

What is the Holy Ghost and what is the difference between it and the Holy Spirit

search.app

Randy

 

[Randy]

Holy Spirit = Spirit of God = Spirit of the Lord = Spirit of your Father = Spirit of Christ = Spirit of Jesus Christ = Spirit of his Son. All different names for the same person, who is neither the Father nor the Son.

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
...
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. (ESV)

First, "the Father . . . will give you another Helper." As I already pointed out, another means exactly that--one similar, but distinct. If I am at someone's house and they give me a piece of cake, and when I done ask if I want another piece, I fully expect another piece of that same cake, not the same piece I just ate, nor a piece from a different cake or something else entirely without further clarification. Second, Jesus does not say that the Father will come. Third, Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will be sent by the Father in his name. How can the Holy Spirit be either the person of the Father or the person of the Son? It makes no sense whatsoever.


So, you just ignore that Jesus said "another"? What would be the point of referring to either the Father or the Son as the Spirit or Holy Spirit when they could just say the Father or the Son? Why a third term that is completely pointless and makes things utterly confusing?

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)

Does "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" mean anything? Just name two persons and then add the Holy Spirit who, according to you, can be either "the person of the Father" or "the person of the Son"? How does that make sense?


Luk 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened,
Luk 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.” (ESV)

Who was the Holy Spirit here, the Father or the Son?

Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
...
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. (ESV)

Why does Paul use "Spirit of God" and "Spirit of Christ" if he really means "the person of the Father" or "the person of the Son"?


Rom 15:30 I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf, (ESV)

Why the continual and consistent distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, if the Holy Spirit isn't a distinct person, but is either the Father or the Son? Again, how does that make any sense and what purpose does it serve?


1Co 2:10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God.
1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. (ESV)

First, notice that Paul is using the fact that no one "knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him," as a parallel for "So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." Second, we see that a person's spirit "is in him," yet with the Spirit of God that is not stated. Third, the spirit of a person is in that person and is in some way that person, being able to know their own thoughts, but still distinct--"which is in him"--from that person. It follows that the Spirit is God, that is divine, yet is distinct from the Father.

Fourth, if "the Spirit" is the person of the Father, then it makes no sense to say that "the [Father] searches everything, even the depths of [the Father]." Fifth, if the Spirit of God is the person of the Father, then it makes no sense to say that "no one comprehends the thoughts of [the Father] except the [Father]." Sixth, nor does it makes sense to say "but the [Father] who is from [the Father]."

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
...
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (ESV)

Why the mention of the Holy Spirit if he is either the Father or the Son? And, in this case, who is it?


Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
...
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. (ESV)

Through who? Jesus. So, again, who is the Spirit in this context?


Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (ESV)

Who is the Spirit here, given that the "one Lord" is the Son and the Father is clearly the Father? Why even mention "one Spirit" if it can refer to either the Son or the Father?


Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, (ESV)

Who is the Holy Spirit in this context?


Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. (ESV)

Who is the Spirit in this context?


1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (ESV)

Who is the Spirit in this context?


That is just a small sampling, but it is clear that the Holy Spirit is always kept distinct from the Father and the Son. Why? And, again, why even have a "Holy Spirit" if that is just a reference to either the Father or the Son? It would be completely pointless and cause confusion as it makes no sense.

The Spirit of God was sent in Jesus name. I asked you why would Jesus would need to receive His own Spirit from the Father to send?
Acts 2:33 Exalted to the right hand of God,he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Acts 1:4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.

Acts 2:17
The Fathers promise as Jesus stated:In the last days I will pour out "My Spirit"....

So Jesus speaks of that Spirit as another the Father does not. That Spirit in the believer conveys the will and presence of Christ. Hence in that context the person of the Son. I see the person of the Father and the person of the Son. Not a 3rd distinct person from Father and Son. So that Spirit would know the thoughts of the mind of Christ and the Father and act on their will. Acts 2:33

That is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. To Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb. No 3rd person.
Greeting from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. No 3rd person. Now the Spirit does bear witness but speaks only what He hears. Those who listen and learn from the Father go to Jesus.

Jesus stated all that belongs to the Father is mine. The Spirit would take from what is His and make it know and again only what He hears.

Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit yet Jesus never refers to the Spirit as His God or Father as its not a 3rd person but the Spirit of His Father.

The Father sent Him and the Spirit of the one who sent Him was upon Him. Not a 3rd person.

 

[Corinth77777]

I haven't read this all. But besides for EJ,s Article this guy seems like He is on the right track..

Check it out ..Difference between Holyghost vs. HOLY Spirit

Randy

Hopefully Randy you will read the above and the words written will change your thoughts.

This is a piece from the above: It's just like EJ's article. I'll post it again below. Then if you still don't agree well..

"Therefore, "Holy Ghost" actually is the more accurate word to use for the soul of Jesus who died but rose again from the grave & ascended back into Heaven but has now come back to live within each of us. "Holy Spirit" should actually be translated.... "
"

What is the Holy Ghost? Is the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit the same thing?

What is the Holy Ghost and what is the difference between it and the Holy Spirit

search.app

 

[Free]

What is the difference in meaning between Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus?

You will discover that there is a slight difference in meaning between Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus? It is actually a difference in emphasis.

search.app

Same type of concept

Yes, there can be a purpose in using Christ Jesus instead of Jesus Christ, such as to emphasize his deity, but not always.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Christ-Christ-Jesus.html

I haven't read this all. But besides for EJ,s Article this guy seems like He is on the right track..

Check it out ..Difference between Holyghost vs. HOLY Spirit

What is the Holy Ghost? Is the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit the same thing?

What is the Holy Ghost and what is the difference between it and the Holy Spirit

search.app

Randy

No, he is not on the right track at all. There is some bad theology and a lot of poor reasoning.

Hopefully Randy you will read the above and the words written will change your thoughts.

This is a piece from the above: It's just like EJ's article. I'll post it again below. Then if you still don't agree well..

"Therefore, "Holy Ghost" actually is the more accurate word to use for the soul of Jesus who died but rose again from the grave & ascended back into Heaven but has now come back to live within each of us. "Holy Spirit" should actually be translated.... "
"

What is the Holy Ghost? Is the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit the same thing?

What is the Holy Ghost and what is the difference between it and the Holy Spirit

search.app

No, the "Holy Ghost" is absolutely not "the soul of Jesus." That is based on very poor reasoning and a lack of understanding of how translations come about. "Ghost" is generally a poor translation of pneuma, because it implies the idea of the disembodied spirit of a person, which is exactly the error that guy is falling into. That is why pneuma is translated as "ghost" mainly, and perhaps exclusively, by outdated translations. There is no difference between Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost, the third person of the Trinity who is distinct from the Father and the Son; they are one and the same.

Please, for your sake, stop searching out random internet stuff, since you'll always likely find someone that will support any position you want. Study actual, legitimate scholars and theologians to see what they say. And, please, forget that site you linked to--it's a terrible one.

 

[Randy]

Hopefully Randy you will read the above and the words written will change your thoughts.

This is a piece from the above: It's just like EJ's article. I'll post it again below. Then if you still don't agree well..

"Therefore, "Holy Ghost" actually is the more accurate word to use for the soul of Jesus who died but rose again from the grave & ascended back into Heaven but has now come back to live within each of us. "Holy Spirit" should actually be translated.... "
"

What is the Holy Ghost? Is the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit the same thing?

What is the Holy Ghost and what is the difference between it and the Holy Spirit

search.app

First of all the English word ghost is associated with the spirit of the dead not the living. Jesus lives and never dies.
2nd of all How is that same Spirit the ghost of the Father as Jesus stated He and His Father would make their home with us?
John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
3rd of all why would Jesus need to receive His own Spirit from the Father?
Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
4th of all the source is the Father and is sent in Jesus name NOT Jesus's own Ghost as you state.

John 14:26

New International Version

​

26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 14:26

King James Version
​

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And there is but One God and One Spirit of God

The Father is in the Son. Col 1:19 They are one.

 

[Corinth77777]

First of all the English word ghost is associated with the spirit of the dead not the living. Jesus lives and never dies.
2nd of all How is that same Spirit the ghost of the Father as Jesus stated He and His Father would make their home with us?
John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
3rd of all why would Jesus need to receive His own Spirit from the Father?
Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
4th of all the source is the Father and is sent in Jesus name NOT Jesus's own Ghost as you state.

John 14:26​

​

New International Version​

​

​

26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 14:26​

​

King James Version​

​

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And there is but One God and One Spirit of God

The Father is in the Son. Col 1:19 They are one.

Tks for sharing your thoughts- Here is the Puritan board where " Fool for Christ" gives same understanding as EJ's Revelation and that amazing post just shared and others that have done research on it.

Around 7 years ago I'm sure I posted this on some Christian Forum. I'd have to find my old name..
Even Googling back then I only found 1 actual study and 1 Revelation.

It's ok if one does not agree but Now just sharing info for those who want to look further into it.

.............

https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.puritanboard.com%2Fthreads%2Fwhat-is-the-significant-difference-between-the-nt-translation-holy-ghost-vs-holy-spirit.93141%2F&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl2%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

"As far as the issue with the Holy Ghost translation, our Lord did say, "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come unto you." (Jn 14:18) What do we call a man who dies and comes back to life as a spirit? A ghost. But the spirit of Jesus Christ is a Holy Ghost, not a meddling ghost, always. The Spirit of life in Christ (Rom 8:2) is the Holy Ghost. When we come to Christ in faith, the Godhead takes up abode within us, by His spirit, and we become a holy temple of the Spirit of Christ. This does not deny the Trinity doctrine, it confirms it."

By Fool for Christ

 

[Free]

.............

https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.puritanboard.com%2Fthreads%2Fwhat-is-the-significant-difference-between-the-nt-translation-holy-ghost-vs-holy-spirit.93141%2F&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl2%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

"As far as the issue with the Holy Ghost translation, our Lord did say, "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come unto you." (Jn 14:18) What do we call a man who dies and comes back to life as a spirit? A ghost. But the spirit of Jesus Christ is a Holy Ghost, not a meddling ghost, always. The Spirit of life in Christ (Rom 8:2) is the Holy Ghost. When we come to Christ in faith, the Godhead takes up abode within us, by His spirit, and we become a holy temple of the Spirit of Christ. This does not deny the Trinity doctrine, it confirms it."

By Fool for Christ

That is easily disproved, especially since Rom 8:2 ignores the rest of the context, which clearly shows that the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God, who is the Holy Spirit:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (KJV)

Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. (KJV)

If the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the risen Christ, how could David have spoken by the Spirit of the risen Christ long before he died and rose?

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (KJV)

Here, Jesus not only equates the Spirit of God with the Holy Ghost, he also says that blasphemy against him will be forgiven, but not blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. That would be odd if they were one and the same.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (KJV)

Holy Ghost here is the Holy Spirit, not the Spirit of the resurrected Christ.

So, again, there is no difference. I strongly suggest that you look at what scholars and theologians say and not random internet people.

"Of the modern English translations of the Bible, it is only the King James Version of the Bible which uses the term “Holy Ghost.” It occurs 90 times in the KJV. The term “Holy Spirit” occurs 7 times in the KJV. There is no clear reason as to why the KJV translators used Ghost in most places and then Spirit in a few. The exact same Greek and Hebrew words are translated "ghost" and "spirit" in the KJV in different occurrences of the words.
...
The real issue is that both "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" refer to the Third Person of the Trinity, coequal and consubstantial with the Father and the Son (Matthew 28:19; Acts 5:3,4; 28:25,26; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6)."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-Ghost.html

 

[Corinth77777]

I believe enough resources, scriptures, studies have been presented to at least open the mind to seeing that the KJV and other older versions use Holyghost for Particular reason and there is a difference in the terms.

As a limited example, my Grand daughter says PA instead of PAPA for a reason.
One refers to her Father most days, and the other refers to her Father on the Day He gets paid..lol

While I am not a king James only Reader, In my opinion it has shown differences and has made me rethink certain Ideals. One of my Favorites is in Galatians: either 2:16, or 3:16

"The faith of Jesus" instead of "faith in Jesus",
This Translation also may open eyes for those who seek truth and understanding.

interpretation really can change with a translation of a particulatmr verse. So I pray that God shines more light in cases like these. May the Lord have a blessing to those who seek a better understanding of His word. Amen!

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone