Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[Gregg T]

I'm not confusing it at all. I've never stated they were the same.

The plant only withered because the rock was unable to retain water during a time of great heat. We know there was 'some' soil.

Mark 4:5 (ESV)
Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil.

There is no reason to believe the plant had not any root in the soil. I have never seen a plant that grew without a root. The root comes first, then the plant. We know that it is just the soil was not very deep, unable to keep much water - but enough to sprout the seed and for the plant to grow. There is no denying the plant grew. There was life in the soil.

Where do we find the distinction of beliefs? That puts the responsibility of salvation on us. Is there another instance where belief is designated as 'enough'?

How can we say that a person has to believe a certain way, or a certain amount, before God accepts them?

Do you not understand that one type of faith is superficial (not leading to salvation) and another type of faith is from the heart (leading to salvation).

Do you not understand that a man has both physical ears and spiritual ears.

 

[chessman]

The plant only withered because the rock was unable to retain water during a time of great heat. We know there was 'some' soil.

The parable of the sower nor Jesus' interpretation of it mentions a plant growing from the seed on the rock.

Why?

it had no depth of soil.

correct.

There is no reason to believe the plant had not any root in the soil.

incorrect. There is every reason to believe that the seed had no root.

Matt 13:19-21 LEB When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is what was sown on the side of the path. And what was sown on the rocky ground—this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. But he does not have a root in himself, but lasts only a little while, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he falls away.​

Have you ever seen a plant with no root???

I have never seen a plant that grew without a root.

Correct.

The root comes first, then the plant.

Actually, the radicle is the first part to emerge from a seed during its germination. Much moisture is then needed for germination to continue to form roots.

Luke 8:6 And other seed fell on the rock, and when it came up, it withered, because it did not have moisture.​

There is no denying the plant grew.

There is no mention of a plant growing on the rock in the parable or it's interpretation.

 

[Nathan]

Close but no cigar.



IMO "continual" is an unnecessary embellishment and a false dichotomy, although your predisposition necessitated using it. Rather, He is the righteous One, and He is our righteousness. On the other hand "eternal" is a necessary adjective to describe the type of life that God gives, unless God has a secret meaning for the word eternal.

Can a person hear the Lord saying publically "never perish" while He was thinking to Himself 'well . . . might never perish?'

Right, His righteousness is eternal in Him. A person hearing the Lord proclaim this would not think that he could retain righteousness apart from Christ.

 

[Nathan]

Do you not understand that one type of faith is superficial (not leading to salvation) and another type of faith is from the heart (leading to salvation).

Do you not understand that a man has both physical ears and spiritual ears.

I only know there is true faith and false faith. True faith comes from God, false faith comes from man.

Where did the seed come from? Was it a different seed for each type of soil?

Did Jesus say they believed? Can someone believe in something they do not hear?

 

[FreeGrace]

Actually, it's our being in Him that brings continual righteousness - not our continual act of believing.

Which text speaks of 'continual righteousness'? I am aware of texts that speak of righteousness being credited to us.

If we are not in Christ then His righteousness cannot be applied.

I do not argue that.

Do you believe that you have righteousness apart from Christ?

We all do. But it's from our sin nature, it's carnal, and it offends God.
Isa 64: All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

 

[Nathan]

The parable of the sower nor Jesus' interpretation of it mentions a plant growing from the seed on the rock.

Why?

correct.


incorrect. There is every reason to believe that the seed had no root.

Matt 13:19-21 LEB When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is what was sown on the side of the path. And what was sown on the rocky ground—this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. But he does not have a root in himself, but lasts only a little while, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he falls away.​

Have you ever seen a plant with no root???


Correct.


Actually, the radicle is the first part to emerge from a seed during it's germination. Much moisture is then needed for germination to continue to form roots.

Luke 8:6 And other seed fell on the rock, and when it came up, it withered, because it did not have moisture.​

There is no mention of a plant growing on the rock in the parable or it's interpretation.

Matthew 13:5 (ESV) 5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil,

Mark 4:5 (ESV) 5 Other seed fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil.

Luke 8:6 (ESV) 6 And some fell on the rock, and as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture.

I'm not sure what version you use, but I've never found one that stated the seed did not grow. When a seed grows it is no longer a seed - it's a plant.

There is no depth of root. How ever you spin this, Jesus said they received and believed. Jesus said that life came forth from the seed.

If you want to quarrel about words it's all yours. Will you deny that they received, believed, and life came forth?

 

[FreeGrace]

I agree Nathan
That's why I post regarding what I feel is important.
But someone here is Stuck on John 5:24 and 10:28.

Are there any verses that change the very plain meaning of these verses?

What is wrong with being "stuck" on any of the promises of Jesus?

And, which text quotes Jesus as giving conditions regarding one's behavior as receiving eternal life?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Give up Jethro.

This is biblical.
Shake the dust from your sandals.

I know he's hardened in his doctrine. I take a jab here and there to bloody the nose of Freegrace doctrine for the sake of those who may be lurking. If they get educated by anything I post and they endure in their faith to the end because of that they will be my reward in the life to come.

 

[FreeGrace]

How does a person know if they have believed from the heart or superficially?

Does the Bible speak of believing in different ways?

Please describe or define "superficial believing" from Scripture.

Is salvation based on their ability to believe enough?

The Bible teaches that salvation is based not on "believing enough", but what is believed.

 

[FreeGrace]

I know he's hardened in his doctrine. I take a jab here and there to bloody the nose of Freegrace doctrine

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Can a person hear the Lord saying publically "never perish" while He was thinking to Himself 'well . . . might never perish?'

Can a person hear the Lord saying publicly "he who...believes Him who sent Me has eternal life" while He was thinking to Himself 'well...he who doesn't believe has eternal life'?

 

[FreeGrace]

Can a person hear the Lord saying publicly "he who...believes Him who sent Me has eternal life" while He was thinking to Himself 'well...he who doesn't believe has eternal life'?

One cannot hear what another is thinking to himself. The question baffles.

Jesus' point in Jn 5:24 is that one who believes "right now", or "presently", or "currently", or "today" possesses (HAS) eternal life.

That means when they FIRST believed, that is the exact moment they FIRST received eternal life.

Now, combine that with Jesus' promise in Jn 10:28 and we see that the promise of eternal security is given the exact moment when one believes and HAS eternal life.

 

[GodsGrace]

Can a person hear the Lord saying publicly "he who...believes Him who sent Me has eternal life" while He was thinking to Himself 'well...he who doesn't believe has eternal life'?

 

[GodsGrace]

One cannot hear what another is thinking to himself. The question baffles.

Oh FreeGrace.
You're baffled all around !!!
I'm sorry but you do say some odd things sometimes.
But keep posting. It's interesting how you seem to be stuck on two verses.
There are plenty more in the N.T.
John 21:25

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"One cannot hear what another is thinking to himself. The question baffles."

Oh FreeGrace.
You're baffled all around !!!

No, the question posed was totally baffling. But maybe there is an answer to it. Do you?

I'm sorry but you do say some odd things sometimes.

For chuckles, please post one or more. As the Spirit leads.

But keep posting. It's interesting how you seem to be stuck on two verses.

Is that a problem, being "stuck" on any of the promises that Jesus made?

There are plenty more in the N.T.
John 21:25

Please proceed to share with the thread what this verse means.

"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

 

[GodsGrace]

I said this:
"One cannot hear what another is thinking to himself. The question baffles."


No, the question posed was totally baffling. But maybe there is an answer to it. Do you?


For chuckles, please post one or more. As the Spirit leads.


Is that a problem, being "stuck" on any of the promises that Jesus made?


Please proceed to share with the thread what this verse means.

"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

Do I what?
Jesus did and said plenty of things that are not written down.
That's what it means.
Are you trusting in the bible to save you or in Jesus?
Jesus laid down a lot of LAW. Much to the chagrin of many.
He said HE is the resurrection. In the gospel of John. Look it up. You'll see other scripture as you try to find it.
It's after John 10, but don't let that stop you.
So if HE'S the resurrection, and YOU ARE NOT IN HIM, you do not have the promise of the resurrection.

Try reading the entire N.T. and not piece by piece.
Give it a go.

1 Timothy 4:10
2 Timothy 3:16

 

[Nathan]

Which text speaks of 'continual righteousness'? I am aware of texts that speak of righteousness being credited to us.


I do not argue that.


We all do. But it's from our sin nature, it's carnal, and it offends God.
Isa 64: All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Unless you no longer sin, I assure you that you want Christs righteousness and not your own.

Hebrews 7:25 (ESV)
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

If Christ is not making intercession for you when you sin, I know of none other who can. I certainly would not rely on my own righteousness.

 

[GodsGrace]

Unless you no longer sin, I assure you that you want Christs righteousness and not your own.

Hebrews 7:25 (ESV)
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

If Christ is not making intercession for you when you sin, I know of none other who can. I certainly would not rely on my own righteousness.

:nod

 

[Nathan]

Does the Bible speak of believing in different ways?

Please describe or define "superficial believing" from Scripture.


The Bible teaches that salvation is based not on "believing enough", but what is believed.

I think your not following the conversation. Your questions above are my same questions.

If a person believes in the word of God, are they saved? Do you believe the ones on rocky soil were saved?

 

[Gregg T]

Oh FreeGrace.
You're baffled all around !!!
I'm sorry but you do say some odd things sometimes.
But keep posting. It's interesting how you seem to be stuck on two verses.
There are plenty more in the N.T.
John 21:25

I am persuaded FreeGrace is stuck in Christ.