Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[Gregg T]

Can a person hear the Lord saying publicly "he who...believes Him who sent Me has eternal life" while He was thinking to Himself 'well...he who doesn't believe has eternal life'?

The answer is no.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am persuaded FreeGrace is stuck in Christ.

Aren't we all?

Unless we decide to leave Him.
Abandon Him.
Forsake Him.
Go our own way.
For whatever reason.

2 Peter 2:20-21

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you not understand that one type of faith is superficial (not leading to salvation) and another type of faith is from the heart (leading to salvation).

Do you not understand that a man has both physical ears and spiritual ears.

Do you understand that there was only ONE TYPE of seed?

There is only ONE Word of God.

The parable of the sower PROVES that one could have faith for a time,
but then loses it.
He was saved, heard the word with joy, BUT it was only TEMPORARY.
Mathew 13:21

He then FALLS AWAY.

Incredible how this could be overlooked...

 

[GodsGrace]

Are there any verses that change the very plain meaning of these verses?

What is wrong with being "stuck" on any of the promises of Jesus?

And, which text quotes Jesus as giving conditions regarding one's behavior as receiving eternal life?

I'll just answer the last question:

Please read the entire gospel of Mathew.
You'll find plenty there...
Mathew 3:10
Mathew 5:3-10
Mathew 5:17
Mathew 5:48
Mathew 7:19

Oh. just remembered that I've already given you this list...
To no avail, I see.

 

[Nathan]

Do you understand that there was only ONE TYPE of seed?

There is only ONE Word of God.

The parable of the sower PROVES that one could have faith for a time,
but then loses it.
He was saved, heard the word with joy, BUT it was only TEMPORARY.
Mathew 13:21

He then FALLS AWAY.

Incredible how this could be overlooked...

The problem is people don't understand faith comes from God. People think they can make up saving faith in themselves. So they don't see that the same seed produces the same faith for everyone.

 

[GodsGrace]

The parable of the sower nor Jesus' interpretation of it mentions a plant growing from the seed on the rock.

Why?

correct.


incorrect. There is every reason to believe that the seed had no root.

Matt 13:19-21 LEB When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is what was sown on the side of the path. And what was sown on the rocky ground—this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. But he does not have a root in himself, but lasts only a little while, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he falls away.​

Have you ever seen a plant with no root???


Correct.


Actually, the radicle is the first part to emerge from a seed during its germination. Much moisture is then needed for germination to continue to form roots.

Luke 8:6 And other seed fell on the rock, and when it came up, it withered, because it did not have moisture.​

There is no mention of a plant growing on the rock in the parable or it's interpretation.

Jesus said the JOY was TEMPORARY.
THIS is what's important.

Mathew 13:20-21
When persecution or affliction come, he FALLS AWAY.

What does TEMPORARY mean?
What does FALLS AWAY mean?
WHO finds joy in God? The unsaved???

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem is people don't understand faith comes from God. People think they can make up saving faith in themselves. So they don't see that the same seed produces the same faith for everyone.

Not only that, but Jesus said that with the faith of a mustard seed one could move mountains.

Also, it's not the amount of faith we have that gets us to heaven.
Just the fact that there is faith is sufficient for God.

For us it's good to have a lot of faith --- it makes it easier to witness and to pray, for instance.

But God accepts us no matter the "amount" of faith.

 

[Nathan]

Not only that, but Jesus said that with the faith of a mustard seed one could move mountains.

Also, it's not the amount of faith we have that gets us to heaven.
Just the fact that there is faith is sufficient for God.

For us it's good to have a lot of faith --- it makes it easier to witness and to pray, for instance.

But God accepts us no matter the "amount" of faith.

And it is beyond me why people won't accept this. Why do some want to make it more complicated is beyond us both I suppose.

 

[chessman]

Jesus said the JOY was TEMPORARY.

Where?

 

[Gregg T]

Do you understand that there was only ONE TYPE of seed?

There is only ONE Word of God.

The parable of the sower PROVES that one could have faith for a time,
but then loses it.
He was saved, heard the word with joy, BUT it was only TEMPORARY.
Mathew 13:21

He then FALLS AWAY.

Incredible how this could be overlooked...

There is one word of God, which is a double edged sword.

I have and am basing my comments on Lk 8:6 and Lk 8:13. There is superficial imagined faith which never unites with the word of God by taking it in to the heart, which never recipricates moisture, which never internally understood or knew the word of God, who withdraws from the word of God. This is what Scripture proves to me.

Thank you for siting Mat 13:21, "but has no root in himself, but is temporary, and tribulation, or persecution occurring because of the Word, he is at once offended." as it states that nothing from the seed was in himself. What he heard remained superficial. The word of God never became internal to him, never entering into his hard heart; much less suggesting that Christ was ever in Him. The word was near him but not in his heart.

Isa 55:10-13 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return there without watering the earth and making it bear and sprout, and furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. For you will go out with joy and be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands. Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, and instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, and it will be a memorial to the LORD, for an everlasting sign which will not be cut off."

 

[GodsGrace]

Where?

Mathew 13:20-21

"is only temporary" NASB
"Endures for a while" KJV

The person receives the word with joy,
meaning he accepts the word, he RECEIVES it, he's saved.
Unsaved persons do NOT receive the word of God, and especially not with joy.
The joy is temporary, it endures only for a while
and THEN
the person FALLS AWAY.

 

[reba]

Closed for mod review

 

[Nathan]

There is one word of God, which is a double edged sword.

I have and am basing my comments on Lk 8:6 and Lk 8:13. There is superficial imagined faith which never unites with the word of God by taking it in to the heart, which never recipricates moisture, which never internally understood or knew the word of God, who withdraws from the word of God. This is what Scripture proves to me.

Thank you for siting Mat 13:21, "but has no root in himself, but is temporary, and tribulation, or persecution occurring because of the Word, he is at once offended." as it states that nothing from the seed was in himself. What he heard remained superficial. The word of God never became internal to him, never entering into his hard heart; much less suggesting that Christ was ever in Him. The word was near him but not in his heart.

Isa 55:10-13 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return there without watering the earth and making it bear and sprout, and furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. For you will go out with joy and be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands. Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, and instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, and it will be a memorial to the LORD, for an everlasting sign which will not be cut off."

It's very shaky ground to build a doctrine on two separate verses, from a passage that contains many more.

Jesus specifically called out ones who heard, but did not believe, and were not saved.

To take the next verse and separate it from the previous one is not doing true study. Jesus makes no allusion to the rocky soil ones not being saved.

Jesus always states everywhere else in the Gospels that a person who believes is saved - and some want to state this one single time Jesus is saying that their belief is not real? Why add words to the passage that are not there, that contradict the rest of the Gospel letters?

Have you pulled up a plant from where you live yet? Is there dirt on the roots? Have you found a plant that grows on the ground without being attached to it?

 

[Mike]

Eleven posts were deleted that were personal and had nothing to do with the topic. I don't expect this to continue. Re-opened. Please proceed with respect given to your brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Gregg T]

How does a person know if they have believed from the heart or superficially?

the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are sons of God, and if you know God and are known by Him.

Is salvation based on their ability to believe enough?

People have a responsibility to believe. Saving faith is a kind / type of faith, not quantifiable.

 

[Gregg T]

Right, His righteousness is eternal in Him. A person hearing the Lord proclaim this would not think that he could retain righteousness apart from Christ.

What Scripture addresses retaining righteousness?
What Scripture identifies a born from above believer that will perish, that will lose salvation?

 

[Nathan]

the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are sons of God, and if you know God and are known by Him.


People have a responsibility to believe. Saving faith is a kind / type of faith, not quantifiable.

So the ones that Jesus said received and believed the word of God did not actually believe?

Did Jesus bear witness that they believed?

 

[Gregg T]

So the ones that Jesus said received and believed the word of God did not actually believe?

Did Jesus bear witness that they believed?

Yes to the first, no to the second.

 

[Nathan]

What Scripture addresses retaining righteousness?
What Scripture identifies a born from above believer that will perish, that will lose salvation?

No Scriptures address retaining righteousness. That is my point.

Hebrews 10
35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
37 For, "Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38 but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him."
39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

There is a distinct contrast between the one who shrinks back, and the one who retain faith - both are from the "righteous one" pool.

Are people who never believe considered righteous?

 

[Nathan]

Yes to the first, no to the second.

Let me understand this correctly. Are you saying that Jesus was not stating absolutely that they actually believed, when He stated that they "believe for a while"?

What can be meant by "they believe" if it does not mean they believe?

Luke 8:13 (ESV)
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.