Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[gr8grace3]

Osas is so self serving .. the more i read of it the more self serving it becomes.. Coming to CFnet. i was leaning to the osas understanding ... reading what is put out here reading the adding to scripture the twisting ignoring of this passage over that one .. Truth is becoming clearer and clearer..

Eternal security is The Lord Jesus Christ serving Himself to self serving creatures.

Loss of salvation IS self serving. Self...........has to keep himself saved.

Eternal security is getting past self, and putting the emphasis on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Reba. I have been here a long time, and you have always sided with the loss of salvation crowd.

What truth is becoming clear?

 

[gr8grace3]

You can leave Discipleship., is what you mean.
You can leave "following Jesus'..
But you cant stop being "in Christ".
You cant remove the Holy Spirit from yourself.
So, that is where you are confused.
See, withIn your thinking and theology, you have decided that if you dont follow Christ, and if you dont have "faith", then you have separated yourself from God by removing Him from inside you.
Cant be done.
You can stop belonging to God, for the exact reason you cant stop belonging to your Mother.
You see, "birth" does not allow you a way out.
Once you are born, you are born INTO a family, into a relationship, and your attitude about it later, or your theology about it later is moot.

:nod

 

[reba]

Nope i have not always been on the nonosas side. this is one of those lines in sand i stupidly jump over and back again.. More and more i am back on the we can walk away from Him side .. Much of it comes from reading what i will term twisting of scripture.. or ignoring this passage..maybe a better term fitting Scripture to a belief instead of fitting the belief to Scripture..

Loss of salvation IS self serving. Self...........has to keep himself saved.

That is the other side of the coin that says Osas says they are right Just to justify sin..
I dont believe either of those.. .

 

[FreeGrace]

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

from Strong's the word follow

G190

From G1 (as a particle of union) and κέλευθος keleuthos (a road); properly to be in the same way with, that is, to accompany (specifically as a disciple): - follow, reach.
Here is Strongs for G1
A
al'-fah
Of Hebrew origin; the first letter of the alphabet: figuratively only (from its use as a numeral) the first. Often used (usually “an”, before a vowel) also in composition (as a contraction from G427) in the sense of privation; so in many words beginning with this letter; occasionally in the sense of union (as a contraction of G260): - Alpha.
We all know the scriptures when penned were not done so in Chapter and verse.. but mostly in letter form..

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

This reads to me like it is those who follow Him that have eternal life.. who is the 'them ' they that follow

It doesn't to me. v.27 is just a description of what His sheep do. Not what His do for eternal life. There is no way to show that "following Him" is a requirement for never perishing.

The SOLE BASIS for never perishing is to simply RECEIVE eternal life. That is very clear.

What this means is those who have been saved will never perish. Why? Because a saved person receives eternal life. And, therefore, will never perish.

According to Jesus.

 

[FreeGrace]

"27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand." John 10:27-28 True.

This is what his sheep hear, his voice

'My son, do not forget my teaching, but let your heart keep my commandments' Proverbs 3:1 “Let your heart hold fast my words; keep my commandments, and live Proverbs 4:4 My son, keep my words and treasure up my commandments with you
Proverbs 7:1 keep my commandments and live, keep my teachings as the apple of your eye Proverbs 7:2

His sheep follow him keep his commandments. Those who do not keep his commandments are not his sheep.

The issue in John 10:28 is how to avoid perishing. The way is to receive eternal life.

Once received, the recipient will never perish. Because Jesus promises that.

The issue of how one receives eternal life can be another thread. But v.28 teaches eternal security in the plainest and clearest of terms.

 

[FreeGrace]

Nope i have not always been on the nonosas side. this is one of those lines in sand i stupidly jump over and back again.. More and more i am back on the we can walk away from Him side

When the prodigal literally walked away from his father, was the relationship lost, or the fellowship between them lost?

.. Much of it comes from reading what i will term twisting of scripture.. or ignoring this passage

Have I twisted John 10:28 in any way?

..maybe a better term fitting Scripture to a belief instead of fitting the belief to Scripture..

What was the condition for Jesus' promise of never perishing in Jn 10:28?

That is the other side of the coin that says Osas says they are right Just to justify sin..
I dont believe either of those.. .

Who on the eternal security side justifies sin?? I've never heard of such a thing. Are there some examples of this? I find it hard to believe.

 

[reba]

What was the condition for Jesus' promise of never perishing in Jn 10:28?

In the context of the passage to be a follower of Him

 

[reba]

Who on the eternal security side justifies sin?? I've never heard of such a thing. Are there some examples of this? I find it hard to believe.

\Try reading what i really wrote again

 

[reba]

Have I twisted John 10:28 in any way?

Choosing to isolate John 10:28 from the surrounding context , also the whole of Scripture

 

[Nathan]

What was the condition for Jesus' promise of never perishing in Jn 10:28?

No condition of His promise, just the condition of those who receive His promise.

Do you believe that Jesus gives eternal life to anyone other than His sheep?

Do you believe that Jesus really meant that His sheep follow Him?

There you find the condition of those who receive His promise.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"What was the condition for Jesus' promise of never perishing in Jn 10:28?"

In the context of the passage to be a follower of Him

Let's not hide behind "in the context". The answer is found in v.28, not v27.

"I give them (recipients) eternal life, and they (recipients) will never perish."

iow, what Jesus gives here RESULTS in never perishing.

If your claim were right, this is what Jesus would have said, to be accurate:
I give them eternal life, and AS LONG AS they follow Me, they will never perish.

That's how it would sound if following Jesus was a requirement for never perishing.

But Jesus didn't say it that way, ever. His promise is clear: those given eternal life will never perish.

So, to never perish is based simply on receiving eternal life.

iow, there is NO REQUIREMENT beyond the receiving of eternal life for never perishing.

That's how clear Jesus' promise is.

btw, consider the fact that 'following Him' requires time and lifestyle. If salvation were based on that, it would be called a works based system, and there would be NO GRACE involved.

But we are saved by grace, through faith. So once eternal life is received, the person will never perish.

 

[FreeGrace]

\Try reading what i really wrote again

I really did really try reading what you really wrote. Again. Really. Same response.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"Have I twisted John 10:28 in any way?"

Choosing to isolate John 10:28 from the surrounding context , also the whole of Scripture

Excuse me, but v.28 is a factual statement and needs no "help" from surrounding text to understand. But those who continue to believe that there is more to not perishing than simply receiving eternal life will continue to resist that.

Factual statements are stand-alone statements. They don't need modification by other verses.

Quoting one verse that is factual in no way is a twist of Scripture. So the charge is false.

Twisting Scripture occurs when one mis-states the meaning of words or mis-defines any of the Greek grammar by trying to force it say what it doesn't mean or say.

One can argue how one receives eternal life, but the fact is that once received, that person will never perish. That is the very simple and clear promise of Jesus.

Do you believe that once eternal life is received, it can be lost and the person will perish?

 

[Nathan]

I asked this:
"What was the condition for Jesus' promise of never perishing in Jn 10:28?"

Let's not hide behind "in the context". The answer is found in v.28, not v27.

"I give them (recipients) eternal life, and they (recipients) will never perish."

iow, what Jesus gives here RESULTS in never perishing.

If your claim were right, this is what Jesus would have said, to be accurate:
I give them eternal life, and AS LONG AS they follow Me, they will never perish.

That's how it would sound if following Jesus was a requirement for never perishing.

But Jesus didn't say it that way, ever. His promise is clear: those given eternal life will never perish.

So, to never perish is based simply on receiving eternal life.

iow, there is NO REQUIREMENT beyond the receiving of eternal life for never perishing.

That's how clear Jesus' promise is.

btw, consider the fact that 'following Him' requires time and lifestyle. If salvation were based on that, it would be called a works based system, and there would be NO GRACE involved.

But we are saved by grace, through faith. So once eternal life is received, the person will never perish.

Actually, those extra words you have in parenthesis should be 'sheep' not 'reciepients'. Jesus specifically was speaking of His sheep.

"I give them(sheep) eternal life, and they(sheep) will never perish." Is that a correct statement in your thoughts?

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"What was the condition for Jesus' promise of never perishing in Jn 10:28?"

No condition of His promise, just the condition of those who receive His promise.

OK, what was the condition of those who receive His promise?

Do you believe that Jesus gives eternal life to anyone other than His sheep?

No.

Do you believe that Jesus really meant that His sheep follow Him?

Generally.

There you find the condition of those who receive His promise.

But you do understand that to "follow Him" requires a lifestyle and period of time. That contradicts what Jesus said in John 5:24.

And contradicts Jesus' promise in Jn 10:28, where recipients of etenral life are promised to never perish.

So, please reconcile your claims with Jesus' statement in Jn 5:24, then get back to me.

 

[FreeGrace]

Actually, those extra words you have in parenthesis should be 'sheep' not 'reciepients'. Jesus specifically was speaking of His sheep.

When Jesus said "I give them eternal life", He was referring to those He gives eternal life. Those who are given something are RECIPIENTS of something.

"I give them(sheep) eternal life, and they(sheep) will never perish." Is that a correct statement in your thoughts?

Yes. And it proves eternal security.

To never perish is based solely on being a recipient of etenral life. That is exactly Jesus' promise.

 

[reba]

Tell me FreeGrace were the Scriptures written in Chapter and verse.. For some one who turns to the Greek i would think context would be important..


AS to what i really wrote i will say again in a different way.

gr8grace3 posted this to me

Loss of salvation IS self serving. Self...........has to keep himself saved.

My reply was like this .. I do not believe those who are of the NONOSAS camp think or believe they have to keep them selves saved.
IN the same way i do not believe those of the OSAS persuasion think or believe OSAS is a licence to sin.

 

[reba]

When Jesus said "I give them eternal life", He was referring to those He gives eternal life. Those who are given something are RECIPIENTS of something.


Yes. And it proves eternal security.

To never perish is based solely on being a recipient of etenral life. That is exactly Jesus' promise.

the 'them are His followers.

 

[FreeGrace]

Tell me FreeGrace were the Scriptures written in Chapter and verse..

No, but what relevance does this have on anything?

For some one who turns to the Greek i would think context would be important..

Is there any verse within the context of v.28 that somehow changes the clear promise Jesus made in v.28?

gr8grace3 posted this to me
My reply was like this .. I do not believe those who are of the NONOSAS camp think or believe they have to keep them selves saved.
IN the same way i do not believe those of the OSAS persuasion think or believe OSAS is a licence to sin.

OK. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[FreeGrace]

the 'them are His followers.

Sure. No argument.

The issue is about those who RECEIVE eternal life. What happens to them? Can they ever perish? Please answer.