Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[Kidron]

Problem is, you can leave Christ. ”

You can leave Discipleship., is what you mean.
You can leave "following Jesus'..
But you cant stop being "in Christ".
You cant remove the Holy Spirit from yourself.
So, that is where you are confused.
See, withIn your thinking and theology, you have decided that if you dont follow Christ, and if you dont have "faith", then you have separated yourself from God by removing Him from inside you.
Cant be done.
You can stop belonging to God, for the exact reason you cant stop belonging to your Mother.
You see, "birth" does not allow you a way out.
Once you are born, you are born INTO a family, into a relationship, and your attitude about it later, or your theology about it later is moot.

 

[Nathan]

First off, thanks for this post. It is nice to have assurance of our salvation with direct quotes from the Bible. Since I was little I have feared damnation so it is great to see what you posted. But I have an honest question, how is the path a narrow one if you're saved the second you set on it (by accepting Jesus). That confuses me. Not trying to be annoying just seeking understanding.

You should not fear damnation being in Christ. It is a good thing to have the fear of God, but not so to have the fear of His wrath.

God has not appointed those who are in His Son to wrath. We are saved from damnation through Jesus.

I can say, from my own experience, that the times I doubted and feared damnation was when I put my trust in what I did or had done. When I realized that my faith is in God, in His Son - then the fear of damnation went away.

 

[FreeGrace]

Problem is, you can leave Christ.

Not possible from the guarantee of Eph 1:13,14. There are no verses about being -
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved.

There is no where it is taught that a person in Christ cannot forsake Him.

How is this being:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved?

It is only taught that He will not forsake us. It is taught that we should not deny Him, and that He will never deny us.

If our forsaking Him results in loss of salvation, that is tantamount to being stronger than God, from John 10:28-29.

 

[Nathan]

You can leave Discipleship., is what you mean.
You can leave "following Jesus'..
But you cant stop being "in Christ".
You cant remove the Holy Spirit from yourself.
So, that is where you are confused.
See, withIn your thinking and theology, you have decided that if you dont follow Christ, and if you dont have "faith", then you have separated yourself from God by removing Him from inside you.
Cant be done.
You can stop belonging to God, for the exact reason you cant stop belonging to your Mother.
You see, "birth" does not allow you a way out.
Once you are born, you are born INTO a family, into a relationship, and your attitude about it later, or your theology about it later is moot.

Actually, Paul was very clear. He used the exact words for circumcision to describe the one who is removed from Christ. I highly doubt that my circumcised flesh is just not in 'fellowship' with me. It is dead, and has long since returned to dust.

Its not a matter of deciding or not, its a matter of doing or not. If you turn away from Christ then you turn away from all He gives - including the Spirit. As Paul said, you have been severed from Christ - there is no life apart from Christ.

Gal 5:4
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

If Paul was speaking of just "fellowship", then he would not have said that the one who is severed is obligated to keep the whole law. Is a believer in Christ obligated to keep the whole law?

Gal 5:2-3
Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

Every human being belongs to God. He created every one of us. Yet some of the very ones He created will be eternally separated from Him because they trusted in their own work rather than what He does in us.

 

[GodsGrace]

First off, thanks for this post. It is nice to have assurance of our salvation with direct quotes from the Bible. Since I was little I have feared damnation so it is great to see what you posted. But I have an honest question, how is the path a narrow one if you're saved the second you set on it (by accepting Jesus). That confuses me. Not trying to be annoying just seeking understanding.

Hi MS

First of all, welcome to the forum.

The bible does not teach eternal security. The word of God was around for 1,500 years before Mr. Calvin decided to think up this doctrine. So what do you think? Were all the theologians that came before him totally dumb?

We could list verses back and forth. As you see, it accomplishes nothing. BUT... common sense accomplishes a lot. So I do hope you continue to read along.

God is not a condemning God. Jesus said that He did not come to cure the healthy, but the sick.
Luke 5:31

We are all the sick because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:23

But God planned for our salvation by our faith in Him to save us.
Ephesian 2:8
Galatians 2:16

Salvation is a free gift from God. We CANNOT earn it. We only need to accept it.
Once we accept it, then we are to become members of the Kingdom. Members of the Kingdom are the hands and feet of God. WE are to do His work here on earth. Unfortunately, WORK has become a dirty word in Christianity. The early church theologians did nothing but talk about work. Today we want cheap grace and easy believism. God died for us, IOW, but HE, otoh, expect absolutely nothing from us. Does this sound right to YOU? Have you read the entire N.T.?

You are right to ask about the narrow path.
What if I go back to the wide path?

However, I do want to assure you that you DO have assurance of your salvation. If you are in Christ, you are saved.
If you believe in His death and resurrection for you, you are saved. If you have faith, you are saved.

If you really want to understand this better, learn what Justificaiton is and learn what Sanctificatin is.
You might already know. Sanctification is a PATH, as you have correctly assumed in your question.
However, you are saved immediately and for as long as you stay on that path.

This has nothing to do with sin. We all sin. It has to do with leaving the loving arms of God and abandoning Jesus.
Not an easy thing to do!
John 6:68

Blessings

 

[Nathan]

Not possible from the guarantee of Eph 1:13,14. There are no verses about being -
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved.


How is this being:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved?


If our forsaking Him results in loss of salvation, that is tantamount to being stronger than God, from John 10:28-29.

2Pe 2:15-22
Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

What do you suppose is good about not knowing the way of righteousness? Do you think that a believer can be a slave of corruption?

Do you think that these that Peter is speaking about have salvation?

 

[FreeGrace]

Hi MS

First of all, welcome to the forum.

The bible does not teach eternal security. The word of God was around for 1,500 years before Mr. Calvin decided to think up this doctrine.

No, that is untrue. Jesus promised recipients of eternal life that they would never perish. It's all about what Christ did for us. Completely.

Please don't drag Calvin into this. He had nothing to do with Christ's promise in John 10:28.

God is not a condemning God. Jesus said that He did not come to cure the healthy, but the sick.
Luke 5:31

He promised the recipients of eternal life that they would never perish.

But God planned for our salvation by our faith in Him to save us.
Ephesian 2:8
Galatians 2:16

And Christ promises recipients of eternal life that they will never perish.

Salvation is a free gift from God. We CANNOT earn it. We only need to accept it.

And once accepted, or received, we will never perish.

However, I do want to assure you that you DO have assurance of your salvation. If you are in Christ, you are saved.

And since the Bible does NOT anywhere teach that those who are "marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, a deposit that guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption, per Eph 1:13,14, can be:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved
un-born
un-justified

Jesus was correct to promise recipients of eternal life that they would never perish, which is eternal security.

If you believe in His death and resurrection for you, you are saved. If you have faith, you are saved.

And, recipients of eternal life. Therefore, you will never perish. That's what Jesus promised.

 

[FreeGrace]

2Pe 2:15-22
Forsaking the right way, they have gone astray. They have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing, but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm. For them the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved. For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

What do you suppose is good about not knowing the way of righteousness? Do you think that a believer can be a slave of corruption?

How does this nullify the promise of Jesus; that recipients of eternal life will never perish??

Do you think that these that Peter is speaking about have salvation?

Peter is referring to unbelievers from v.15-19, where Peter changes over to referring to believers to the end of the passage.

Unfortunately your quotes fail to put in verse numbers, but the phrase at the beginning of v.19 is: "they promise them freedom". That refers to 2 groups. The "they" are false teachers, who are unbelievers, and the false teachers promise "them", who are believers.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, that is untrue. Jesus promised recipients of eternal life that they would never perish. It's all about what Christ did for us. Completely.

Please don't drag Calvin into this. He had nothing to do with Christ's promise in John 10:28.


He promised the recipients of eternal life that they would never perish.


And Christ promises recipients of eternal life that they will never perish.


And once accepted, or received, we will never perish.


And since the Bible does NOT anywhere teach that those who are "marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, a deposit that guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption, per Eph 1:13,14, can be:
un-marked
un-sealed
un-saved
un-born
un-justified

Jesus was correct to promise recipients of eternal life that they would never perish, which is eternal security.


And, recipients of eternal life. Therefore, you will never perish. That's what Jesus promised.

Eternal security does NOT exist.

Present your case.
If anyone reading along is smart, they'lll see that common sense does not dictate eternal security.

Au Revoir.
I may return every now and then.

 

[Nathan]

How does this nullify the promise of Jesus; that recipients of eternal life will never perish??


Peter is referring to unbelievers from v.15-19, where Peter changes over to referring to believers to the end of the passage.

Unfortunately your quotes fail to put in verse numbers, but the phrase at the beginning of v.19 is: "they promise them freedom". That refers to 2 groups. The "they" are false teachers, who are unbelievers, and the false teachers promise "them", who are believers.

Then verse 20 is speaking about those who are 'barely' escaping becoming entangled again and overcome. What is their last state?

 

[FreeGrace]

Eternal security does NOT exist.

It does. Clearly

Present your case.

I have.

If anyone reading along is smart, they'lll see that common sense does not dictate eternal security.

Why in the world would anyone hide behind the false claim that "common sense" leads to eteral insecurity.

But, if Jesus' promise in John 10:28 isn't enough for those who understand the meaning of words to recognize eternal security, then nothing else in the world will convince them of it. But it is truth, nonetheless.

As I pointed out in another thread, it appears that the main motivating factor for believing that salvation can be lost is emotional, not rational.

This is seen by proponents pulling out the more heinous situation possible; a believer forsaking Christ. That is terrible, no question about it.

But to those folk, it's just too heinous to allow them into heaven. So the ONLY SOLUTION is for God the Father to un-born that child of His, return him to a non-child status and cast him into hell.

But, on the human side of things, what decent parent, who has a rebellious child, would even think of killing their child because of it

So, since "common sense" was brought up, it should be obvious that there is no comparison. If decent parents don't even think of killing their children for rebellion, (and they don't, which is why they are decent), then neither will God do such a HEINOUS thing.

So, in thinking that forsaking Christ is just TOO HEINOUS to allow entrance into heaven, such people ascribe to God the VERY HEINOUS act of killing His own children.

All in spite of the very clear GUARANTEE in Eph 1:13,14 about God's own possession (children) being marked IN CHRIST with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance (how is THAT not eternal security) for the day of redemption (again, how is THAT not eternal security).

 

[FreeGrace]

Then verse 20 is speaking about those who are 'barely' escaping becoming entangled again and overcome. What is their last state?

Worse. So, please prove from Scripture that this demands a meaning of hell.

Instead, because of all the promises of eternal security in Scripture, Peter is referring to life on earth after becoming entangled again and overcome. That's the state that is worse.

 

[Nathan]

Worse. So, please prove from Scripture that this demands a meaning of hell.

Instead, because of all the promises of eternal security in Scripture, Peter is referring to life on earth after becoming entangled again and overcome. That's the state that is worse.

Were you in a 'saved' state before you knew the Lord???

Peter said it would have been better for them not to have ever known. How is this describing a person who is saved?

 

[reba]

Osas is so self serving .. the more i read of it the more self serving it becomes.. Coming to CFnet. i was leaning to the osas understanding ... reading what is put out here reading the adding to scripture the twisting ignoring of this passage over that one .. Truth is becoming clearer and clearer..

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Worse. So, please prove from Scripture that this demands a meaning of hell.

Instead, because of all the promises of eternal security in Scripture, Peter is referring to life on earth after becoming entangled again and overcome. That's the state that is worse."

Were you in a 'saved' state before you knew the Lord???

Just curious; how does my comments lead one to this unbiblical question? Of course not.

Peter said it would have been better for them not to have ever known. How is this describing a person who is saved?

Again, he was referring to life on this earth. God does not judge the unbeliever in the here and now. That happens later.

 

[FreeGrace]

Osas is so self serving .. the more i read of it the more self serving it becomes..

I think that is just a stunning statement, after all the verses that speak of it clearly.

How in the world is it "self-serving". It's ALL about what Christ did for us, and continues to do for us. He died for us. Is that what is meant by "self-serving"???

Coming to CFnet. i was leaning to the osas understanding ... reading what is put out here reading the adding to scripture the twisting ignoring of this passage over that one .. Truth is becoming clearer and clearer..

So, where is this truth? Why hasn't anyone provided any verse that actually, specifically, and plainly says that salvation can be lost.

In EVERY verse provided, the wording is so vague that one MUST assume that losing salvation is what was meant.

I do not know how anyone can get around the very clear promise by Jesus that recipients of eternal life will not perish. John 10:28

No one has explained that.

 

[Nathan]

I said this:
"Worse. So, please prove from Scripture that this demands a meaning of hell.

Instead, because of all the promises of eternal security in Scripture, Peter is referring to life on earth after becoming entangled again and overcome. That's the state that is worse."

Just curious; how does my comments lead one to this unbiblical question? Of course not.


Again, he was referring to life on this earth. God does not judge the unbeliever in the here and now. That happens later.

Peter is clearly speaking of spiritual things in this earth. Someone who never knows the Lord is better off than those who have, then turn away.

Peter is clearly not concerned with just their 'worldy' state of being - but their spiritual condition.

2 Peter 2:21 (ESV) 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

 

[FreeGrace]

Peter is clearly speaking of spiritual things in this earth. Someone who never knows the Lord is better off than those who have, then turn away.

Peter is clearly not concerned with just their 'worldy' state of being - but their spiritual condition.

2 Peter 2:21 (ESV) 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

We can argue back and forth all day on this verse and we'll get nowhere.

However, the proof of eternal life is found in John 10:28 where Jesus promised that recipients of eternal life will never perish.

So, if that's NOT what Jesus promised, the please exegete what He was "really" saying.

Thank you.

 

[reba]

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

from Strong's the word follow

G190

From G1 (as a particle of union) and κέλευθος keleuthos (a road); properly to be in the same way with, that is, to accompany (specifically as a disciple): - follow, reach.
Here is Strongs for G1
A
al'-fah
Of Hebrew origin; the first letter of the alphabet: figuratively only (from its use as a numeral) the first. Often used (usually “an”, before a vowel) also in composition (as a contraction from G427) in the sense of privation; so in many words beginning with this letter; occasionally in the sense of union (as a contraction of G260): - Alpha.
We all know the scriptures when penned were not done so in Chapter and verse.. but mostly in letter form..

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

This reads to me like it is those who follow Him that have eternal life.. who is the 'them ' they that follow

 

[MarkT]

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The first phrase "I give them eternal life" identifies recipients of the gift of eternal life (Rom 6:23).

The second phrase "they shall never perish" is the promise of Jesus. So, the direct result of being a recipient of eternal life is that they shall never perish.

Note that Jesus added no contingencies, conditions, or requirements beyond simply being a recipient of eternal life for the promise of never perishing.

This promise clarifies any misunderstanding of John 5:24 where some claim that only those who "currently" believe have eternal life and will not be condemned.

That claim is untrue because the Greek present tense doesn't mean "on-going action" or "continuous action out into the future".

It only means "right now", or "currently", or "presently".

So, John 5:24 and John 10:28 are saying the exact same thing. When one believes, they are given eternal life. And will never perish, which is based on simply being the recipient of eternal life.

These verses teach that we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ.
Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31- They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

These verses teach that receiving eternal life is based on believing in Christ:

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

We know that those who believe in Christ are given etenral life. We know that those who are given eternal life are recipients of eternal life. And we know that recipients will never perish.

This is eternal security.

"27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand." John 10:27-28 True.

This is what his sheep hear, his voice

'My son, do not forget my teaching, but let your heart keep my commandments' Proverbs 3:1 “Let your heart hold fast my words; keep my commandments, and live Proverbs 4:4 My son, keep my words and treasure up my commandments with you
Proverbs 7:1 keep my commandments and live, keep my teachings as the apple of your eye Proverbs 7:2

His sheep follow him keep his commandments. Those who do not keep his commandments are not his sheep.