Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[JLB]

#1

Here is my entire post # 1.

Please point out the line whereby I said Judas Iscariot was saved?

I would like to examine some scriptures that involve Judas Iscariot, to see if we can learn from his mistakes, and avoid falling away from Christ, as we see the Day of the Lord approaching.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

• Judas could have reigned with Jesus Christ, had he continued with the Lord.
• This was spoken to Judas Iscariot, before he betrayed Jesus.
• Judas, like the rest of us, had a choice to make during his life.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms:‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no one live in it’;
and, ‘Let another take his office.’ Acts 1:16-20

• Let their dwelling place be desolate; Let no one live in their tents.26 For they persecute the ones You have struck, And talk of the grief of those You have wounded.27 Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into Your righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. Psalm 69:25-28

Judas Iscariot ended up being "blotted out" of the book of life, as he did not overcome, but fell away.



JLB

 

[JLB]

In fact, since the OP basically makes the claim that Judas was saved for a while, the onus is on the OP for providing Scripture that supports that claim. Which has not been provided.

Jesus said in John 10:28 that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH. What part of that promise isn't clear?

Please notice that Jesus added no conditions to those He gives eternal life. No "if's". Just the promise that they WILL NEVER PERISH.

It couldn't be more clear than that.

Here is my entire post # 1.

Please point out the line whereby I said Judas Iscariot was saved?



I would like to examine some scriptures that involve Judas Iscariot, to see if we can learn from his mistakes, and avoid falling away from Christ, as we see the Day of the Lord approaching.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

• Judas could have reigned with Jesus Christ, had he continued with the Lord.
• This was spoken to Judas Iscariot, before he betrayed Jesus.
• Judas, like the rest of us, had a choice to make during his life.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms:‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no one live in it’;
and, ‘Let another take his office.’ Acts 1:16-20

• Let their dwelling place be desolate; Let no one live in their tents.26 For they persecute the ones You have struck, And talk of the grief of those You have wounded.27 Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into Your righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. Psalm 69:25-28

Judas Iscariot ended up being "blotted out" of the book of life, as he did not overcome, but fell away.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Eternal life is what we have the hope of inheriting, at the end of a faithful life, that has produced fruit unto holiness.

So then, apparently you don't believe what Jesus said here?

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. NIV

Your views are in direct conflict with what Jesus said.

Jesus didn't say "will have". He said HAS. Present tense.

Judas didn't continue steadfast to the end, and therefore did not inherit eternal life.
JLB

This is nothing more than a works based salvation. Which the Bible condemns.

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who are saved, receive their salvation in the end, in reality: ie the thing they have hoped for.JLB

So then, believers aren't saved. Weird.

 

[FreeGrace]

Judas Iscariot ended up being "blotted out" of the book of life, as he did not overcome, but fell away.JLB

Please quote the verse that says that judas was blotted out of the book of life. It's only your opinion, but not the fact.

 

[JLB]

Everyone He spoke to "heard His voice". Doesn't mean salvation.

Heard His voice and followed Him.

Please provide which verse says he ever believed, much less for a while. Or quit making claims that the Bible doesn't support.

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:68-69

Please stop denying the truth of the scriptures.


Show me a scripture whereby Jesus empowered an unbeliever, to preach the Gospel to the lost, and heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils?


My bible says these are the signs that follow those who believe.


17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:17

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
Matthew 10:1-4

• Please explain how Judas Iscariot, could preach the Gospel to the lost, cast out devils, heal the sick, and raise the dead yet not have faith in Jesus Christ.

• Please explain how Judas Iscariot, could preach the Gospel to the lost, cast out devils, heal the sick, and raise the dead yet not believe in Jesus Christ.

JLB

 

[JLB]

So then, believers aren't saved. Weird.

More twisting.

Still waiting for you to provide a verse, whereby Jesus empowered an unbeliever, to preach the Gospel to the lost, and heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils?

 

[JLB]

Please quote the verse that says that judas was blotted out of the book of life. It's only your opinion, but not the fact.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms:‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no one live in it’;
and, ‘Let another take his office.’ Acts 1:16-20

• Let their dwelling place be desolate; Let no one live in their tents.26 For they persecute the ones You have struck, And talk of the grief of those You have wounded.27 Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into Your righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. Psalm 69:25-28

Judas Iscariot ended up being "blotted out" of the book of life, as he did not overcome, but fell away.



JLB

 

[MarkT]

Here is my entire post # 1.

Please point out the line whereby I said Judas Iscariot was saved?



I would like to examine some scriptures that involve Judas Iscariot, to see if we can learn from his mistakes, and avoid falling away from Christ, as we see the Day of the Lord approaching.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

• Judas could have reigned with Jesus Christ, had he continued with the Lord.
• This was spoken to Judas Iscariot, before he betrayed Jesus.
• Judas, like the rest of us, had a choice to make during his life.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms:‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no one live in it’;
and, ‘Let another take his office.’ Acts 1:16-20

• Let their dwelling place be desolate; Let no one live in their tents.26 For they persecute the ones You have struck, And talk of the grief of those You have wounded.27 Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into Your righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. Psalm 69:25-28

Judas Iscariot ended up being "blotted out" of the book of life, as he did not overcome, but fell away.



JLB

You're forgetting Judas was a devil. Why would his name be in the book of life in the first place? Do you think Judas would have betrayed Jesus if he really believed Jesus was the Son of God?

 

[smaller]

Jesus knew His betrayal was on The Divine Schedule of mandate, and, IF we hear Him below, we'll HEAR that Jesus COMMANDED this betrayal to be done and done quickly:

John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
So then, believers aren't saved. Weird.

More twisting.

What twisting? It's your view that one only receives salvation/eternal life "in the end". So, please explain how I've twisted anything.

Still waiting for you to provide a verse, whereby Jesus empowered an unbeliever, to preach the Gospel to the lost, and heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out devils?

The very verses you've quoted. Judas.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
Please quote the verse that says that judas was blotted out of the book of life. It's only your opinion, but not the fact.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

As carefully as I can read this, I STILL don't find anything about Judas being blotted out of the book of life.

And...if there EVER was such an event, I'm sure Judas would have filled the bill. And this passage would have been a PERFECT place to make that claim. Yet, it doesn't.

20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms:‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no one live in it’;
and, ‘Let another take his office.’ Acts 1:16-20

Quoting verses randomly doesn't prove your claims.

• Let their dwelling place be desolate; Let no one live in their tents.26 For they persecute the ones You have struck, And talk of the grief of those You have wounded.27 Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into Your righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. Psalm 69:25-28

BOOK OF LIFE
("book of life"): The phrase is derived from the custom of the ancients of keeping genealogical records (Neh 7:5,64; 12:22-23) and of enrolling citizens for various purposes (Jer 22:30; Ezek 13:9). So God is represented as having a record of all who are under His special care and guardianship. To be blotted out of the Book of Life is to be cut off from God's favor, to suffer an untimely death, as when Moses pleads that he be blotted out of God's book-that he might die, rather than that Israel should be destroyed (Ex 32:32; Ps 69:28). In the New Testament it is the record of the righteous who are to inherit eternal life (Phil 4:3; Rev 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 21:27). In the apocalyptic writings there is the conception of a book or of books, that are in God's keeping, and upon which the final judgment is to be based (Dan 7:10; 12:1; Rev 20:12,15; compare Book Jub 39:6 ; 19:9 ). See APOCALYPSE ; BLOT ; BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE ; JUDGMENT, LAST .

(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Judas Iscariot ended up being "blotted out" of the book of life, as he did not overcome, but fell away.JLB

I'll guide my understanding from scholarly sources.

 

[JLB]

You're forgetting Judas was a devil. Why would his name be in the book of life in the first place? Do you think Judas would have betrayed Jesus if he really believed Jesus was the Son of God?

I have answered the question point about three times now.

Please go back and review what I have written.

Hint: Jesus called Peter, Satan!

Is Peter written in the book of life?

 

[MarkT]

Humans are not devils nor did Jesus or any speaker of God claim that to be the case. Nor did Jesus come to save devil humans or convert devil humans.


It might appear that the devil who entered Judas was the devil and that humans are not devils.


There is no legitimate scriptural interpretation that makes humans devils any more than Peter was a devil when Jesus spoke to SATAN in Peter in Matt. 16:23.

Can a human being be the Son of God? If a human being can be the Son of God, then a human being can be a devil.

 

[smaller]

Can a human being be the Son of God? If a human being can be the Son of God, then a human being can be a devil.

Human beings are not devils nor is there ANY scripture that teaches or claims such a thing.

Satan and his own are not "visible" entities, but spiritual in the adverse sense of the term. See Eph. 2:2 for a simple example.

It is a very unfortunate sight that you and a few others have expressed in this matter, that humans are devils.

 

[MarkT]

I have answered the question point about three times now.

Please go back and review what I have written.

Hint: Jesus called Peter, Satan!

Is Peter written in the book of life?

No he didn't call Peter, Satan. Jesus was addressing Satan. Perhaps Satan whispered in Peter's ear.

 

[MarkT]

Human beings are not devils nor is there ANY scripture that teaches or claims such a thing.

Satan and his own are not "visible" entities, but spiritual in the adverse sense of the term. See Eph. 2:2 for a simple example.

It is a very unfortunate sight that you and a few others have expressed in this matter, that humans are devils.

Then, according to your argument, Jesus could not be the Son of God because Jesus was human.

Jesus called the scribes and the Pharisees vipers. Mt. 23:33 They were human. A son of a serpent is a serpent. The Serpent is the Devil. The sons of the Serpent are devils. Judas was a devil.

 

[MarkT]

We've heard this argument before. John 10: 33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

 

[smaller]

Then, according to your argument, Jesus could not be the Son of God because Jesus was human.

You claim Jesus can't be God unless humans are devils? No connection there whatsoever.

Jesus called the scribes and the Pharisees vipers. Mt. 23:33 They were human.

Devils are not "humans." They are unseen adverse spirits, duly noted prior from Eph. 2:2 as an example. No one "sees" Satan do this for another example: Mark 4:15.

Jesus did address, openly, devils in mankind and 'cast them out' of mankind (in some cases, in other cases NOT, with Judas for example), showing and proving they are not the same entities as mankind. Too many scriptural citings to list, but Luke 8:30-32 is one of the more dramatic examples of "many" devils having "entered" into one man. Luke 11:24 is another example. So is 2 Cor. 12:7 or 1 John 3:8.

A son of a serpent is a serpent. The Serpent is the Devil. The sons of the Serpent are devils. Judas was a devil.

When we have a very OBVIOUS devil to observe there is no excuse to get the parties confused making Judas the same as Satan who "entered" Judas.

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Though I disagree with JLB on a lot of his positions at least he's figured out that Satan speaking from Peter didn't make Peter Satan, Matt. 16:23, anymore than it made Judas Satan for essentially the same activity of Satan and Peter as Satan and Judas above.

Both events are examples of the reality of Mark 4:15.

 

[chessman]

Here is my entire post # 1.

Please point out the line whereby I said Judas Iscariot was saved?

Look up at post #1. You're up to the task.