Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[JLB]

we should be able to see the difference peter denied Christ at the sinners fire

Mark 14:66-72
72 A second time the rooster crowed. Then Peter called to mind the word that Jesus had said to him, “Before the rooster crows twice, you will deny Me three times.” And when he thought about it, { he wept.} Godly sorrow ****

{ judas hung himself }

Matthew 27: 4“I have sinned by betraying innocent blood,” he said. “What is that to us?” they replied. “You bear the responsibility.” 5 So Judas threw the silver into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the pieces of silver and said, “It is unlawful to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money.”… paul wrote Godly sorrow
2 Corinthians 7:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

while granted we can only assume one way or the other. but imo this shows peter had Godly sorrow Judas had worldly sorrow . he was greedy and loved money

I like the points you drew between Peter and Judas; Godly sorrow vs. worldly sorrow, although it's not cyrstal clear as to Judas having "worldly sorrow", it's still a good point.

However, what Judas did after he decided to betray Jesus is not what is in question, but before, when he followed Jesus and was ordained by Jesus, and was called as one of "His sheep", as well as a trusted friend.

To me, if Judas was called as one of "His sheep", who was sent out among wolves, then we can conclude that Judas, like the prodigal son, was a sheep, a member of the household, who became "lost".

The prodigal son returned, in which he was said to be "lost", then "found".

... for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry. Luke 15:24

Lost = a sinner, in need of repentance.

Likewise, Peter fits that mold as well.


However, Judas, though he seemed to be sorrowful over his betrayal, did not return to Jesus in repentance, but gave up and hung himself, having died in his sin.


JLB

 

[reba]

JLB as you often post ... Please post the scripture..

i did not ask for your speculation ...

 

[JLB]

imo he was never saved

Nor was Paul, until he was found to be faithful to the end...

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 2 Timothy 4:6-7


5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5


26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:26-27



JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB as you often post ... Please post the scripture..

i did not ask for your speculation ...

Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted,
Who ate my bread,
Has lifted up his heel against me.
Psalm 41:9


Do you believe Judas had no choice, but to become Jesus' trusted friend.


Do you have a choice, as to who is your trusted friend's or not?

How is trust developed?

Ssssshhheeeesssshhhh Reba !!!

I posted the scriptures for my belief.

Please go through and read my post #59, to see the scriptures used.


Please post your scripture that teaches us Judas had no choice to betray Jesus, but was made to betray Him, by God, then please post that scripture.


JLB

 

[reba]

Really JLB i did not ask for the scripture of your belief .. you asked for this ....

Please post the scripture that says Judas did not ever believe.



JLB

Can you post a scripture that says he did believe

play fair JLB ... if you can ask you can be asked ..

 

[ezra]

Nor was Paul, until he was found to be faithful to the end...

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 2 Timothy 4:6-7


5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified. 2 Corinthians 13:5


26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. 1 Corinthians 9:26-27



JLB

very well i showed you peter repented Pentecost preached 3 thousand souls saved Judas repented of him self hung himself true repentance does not cause one to kill your self. unless you want to hold to theory of eternal security.. i still hold by scripture he was never saved. scriptures pre told of his betrayal called him son of perdition Christ said one of you has a devil ..

 

[ezra]

To me, if Judas was called as one of "His sheep", who was sent out among wolves, then we can conclude that Judas, like the prodigal son, was a sheep, a member of the household, who became "lost".

The prodigal son returned, in which he was said to be "lost", then "found".

judas never returned just because judas was of the 12 even though jesus knew he was not really of them .
1 John 2:19King James Version (KJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, t :they would no doubt have continued with us but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[reba]

edits leave a trail...

I simply do not see Judas as being an example of turning away , blacksliding, what ever label one wishes to use.. Judas was bad to the bone..
There are other examples like the Prodigal son that tell me we can turn away.. While also showing us the Wonderful Grace of God His over whelming Mercy.. His putting our sins in the sea of forgetfulness

Hallelujah Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[JLB]

Really JLB i did not ask for the scripture of your belief .. you asked for this ....





play fair JLB ... if you can ask you can be asked ..

Of course I can be asked, and I answered your question with the scriptures I posted.

If you don't see, what I see, in the scriptures I posted, then just say so.

However, claiming that I refused to post any scriptures for my belief, is down right deceitful.


Again, you are the one who has not posted any scriptures that say Judas had no choice to betray Jesus.

Please post your scripture that teaches us Judas had no choice to betray Jesus, but was made to betray Him, by God, then please post that scripture.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I simply do not see Judas as being an example of turning away , blacksliding, what ever label one wishes to use.. Judas was bad to the bone..
There are other examples like the Prodigal son that tell me we can turn away.. While also showing us the Wonderful Grace of God His over whelming Mercy.. His putting our sins in the sea of forgetfulness

I see, so God's wonderful grace and mercy were not ever available to Judas, if he would have repented.

That would be the text book meaning of partiality.

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 1 Peter 1:17


JLB

 

[reba]

JLB your posts are here to read .. the twisting shows. Show me the post that says i said that said you did not post scriptures of your beliefs ..

 

[JLB]

judas never returned just because judas was of the 12 even though jesus knew he was not really of them .

... because Judas was one of the twelve?

Judas never returned because he was one of the twelve?


Please explain what this means.



JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB your posts are here to read .. the twisting shows. Show me the post that says i said that said you did not post scriptures of your beliefs ..

JLB as you often post ... Please post the scripture..

i did not ask for your speculation ...

Now Please post the scripture that says Judas did not ever believe.



JLB

 

[reba]

I see, so God's wonderful grace and mercy were not ever available to Judas, if he would have repented.

That would be the text book meaning of partiality.

And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 1 Peter 1:17


JLB

That is about what i said, not those exact words but that idea..

I dont have a problem see God as totally sovereign ... He IMO can choose who ever for what ever and He is still and will always be Godly

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[reba]

Now Please post the scripture that says Judas did not ever believe.



JLB

I dont believe we know if Judas was ever a believer or not .. I do not see a passage that proclaims one way or the other..

 

[ezra]

... because Judas was one of the twelve?

Judas never returned because he was one of the twelve?


Please explain what this means.



JLB

no JLB i am not going to explain .no matter what i post you will disagree and that is fine.

I dont believe we know if Judas was ever a believer or not .. I do not see a passage that proclaims one way or the other..

this is the truth we can not judge souls saved or not saved. even though we do have a good idea. all we can do is judge the tree by the fruit it bears

 

[JLB]

That is about what i said, not those exact words but that idea..

I dont have a problem see God as totally sovereign ... He IMO can choose who ever for what ever and He is still and will always be Godly

Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

IMO -

God chose the person, the vessel, or object of His wrath, to display His power.

God observed before the foundation of the world, who would conduct there lives in wickedness, and would be an object of His wrath.

It was through a person who was already an object of His wrath, who was wicked and unrepentant, that God chose to use to display His power to the children of Israel.

God did not make Pharaoh a wicked person.

God did harden, an already hard hearted arrogant stubborn king of Egypt, who was unlike the Pharaoh before him... thus God waited, as the scripture says - endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:



JLB

 

[JLB]

I dont believe we know if Judas was ever a believer or not .. I do not see a passage that proclaims one way or the other..

No, the scripture doesn't use the words, saved or believer to describe Judas.


The scripture does use the words sheep, of my household, ordain, trusted friend, to describe Judas.

How does a person betray another, with whom they are not intimate with in some way?



JLB

 

[JLB]

no JLB i am not going to explain .no matter what i post you will disagree and that is fine.

I was just wanting you to clarify, what you meant.

I actually like, and agree with some of the points you have been making.

I understand this is a controversial subject, that needs clarification.


To me, Judas became lost, because he fell into transgression, which any of us could do.

23 And they proposed two: Joseph called Barnabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen 25 to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” Acts 1:23-25

It was prophesied that he would betray Jesus, and that he would go to "his own place".

It was also said of him and the others that they would rule with Him on "twelve thrones".

The choice was always his to make.

God foresaw that choice, before the foundation of the world.



It's like Lucifer, who was an anointed Cherub, created as perfect, until iniquity was found in his heart.

14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you. Ezekiel 28:14-15


I don't believe God created Lucifer so that He could send him to hell.

I do believe God created the fires of hell for the devil and his angels, but Lucifer was not always the devil, but became the devil, or Satan... by his choices.




JLB

 

[reba]

JLB i did a quick search on Judas When eSword pulled up the word Judas i did not see any of theses words in connection of the words judas sheep, of my household, ordain, trusted friend, Where Does Jesus use the term trusted friend to describe Judas..

Off to look up trusted friend..