Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[K2CHRIST]

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• Judas was counted as "a sheep", rather than a wolf.

Does "My sheep hear My voice" mean the physical voice of Jesus when He was in the flesh or the small voice of the Lord that comes through the Holy Spirit to our spirit?

Jesus was actually talking to the Pharisees and told them that they didn't hear His voice. But how can that be if they were indeed hearing Him tell them that? He could have only been referring to the spiritual voice! In that case, did Judas hear the Lord's voice or have we made and assumption?

Then Judas could indeed be a wolf in sheep's clothing!

Jesus knew Judas was the one that would betray Him! So did the Father really give Judas to Jesus? I don't think so. He may have been in the group of disciples, but I don't think He really knew Jesus Christ. I think Judas was in it for the money, perhaps for the recognition too, and maybe other reasons, but not for the relationship with the Lord.

And I believe this all serves as a warning the we indeed need to looking for a relationship with God, meaning we indeed should be actually hearing from Him and actually having spiritual conversations with Him. We need to check ourselves to make sure we are not going to church for the money, recognition, approval of men, and/or other selfish reasons. We indeed need to know the Lord.

Jesus said that in that day many would tell Him that they cast our demons, healed the sick, and even prophesied in His name, but He would tell them He never knew them. Yeah, Judas was hanging around, but he didn't seem much like a friend of the Lord's. It did really seem like he really knew the Lord. So could it be that one in twelve of those people hanging around in our churches and who are seemingly involved, not really know the Lord?

It's an important message to get out, because maybe we can get a "Judas" to rethink the position before it is too late. I don't think Judas was ever "Saved", though he clearly was a fallen man. And I think Jesus was right when He said that He keeps all the Father gives Him. It's only that not all that seem to us like the Father has given Him are actually given to our Lord Jesus Christ!

Jn 6:39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me, I lose nothing, but will raise up on the last day.

That mean He loosing nothing of what the Father gave Him!! Nothing!! None! Judas could not have been given to the Son by the Father!

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Nowhere in scripture will you find Judas that was a believer, he walked with Jesus but didn't know him..

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What a scary thought. And it's right here. Many will say in that day...

If Judas who walked with Jesus and was among his closest disciples was among the lost. However he became lost at that point doesn't change the ramifications for us. Peter promised that he would always stand by Jesus's side, but twice he didn't. Once when Jesus prophesied that he would die Peter tried to correct Jesus, (which Jesus corrected Peter on instead), and the second after all the apstoles fled, Peter followed but still denied knowing Jesus three times. We know the rest of the story now, that Jesus forgave Peter, and the disciples who fled. But what of our own stories? Are we destined to fall, or are we among those chosen. Even if we fall, can we be reunited like the 11 apstoles after Jesus was hung on the cross?

The scary thought is the fright in Heaven, of being told to leave, that Jesus never knew us.

I don't know if JLB is right or wrong about Judas being saved, then fell away. But he was with Jesus during Jesus's ministry. If he can either fall away or had never been saved, then it can be so for any of us too. It's a troubling and scary thought.

Jesus warned His apstoles of His death, and welcomed them back after He rose again. So for anyone who feels the struggle of falling away, the idea of being forever lost, and was never saved is a horrible struggle. Thank God for the events of the 11 apstoles after Jesus returned, and for the parable of the son of perdition.

 

[Randy]

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5“Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.b ” 6He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

A true sign of repentance such as Zacchaeus gave is a change of heart. Pledging a good conscience to God. Judas continued to sin as noted in the NT above. Clearly he loved money more than he loved the Lord. And that turned out to be his undoing. All God had to do was pick someone who loved money so much that such a person would betray even the Son of God for 30 pieces of silver. (In order to fulfill the scripture) Judas was that way before Jesus selected Him just as Israel's leadership was as we read before Jesus addressed or admonished them. But Jesus did it for their good that they might repent and be saved not out of revenge or hate. He longed to lead Israel but they wouldn't let Him. In the end their enemies destroyed them.

Randy

 

[Eugene]

.
Brother JLB, to me its evident Judas did not follow Jesus to sitting on a throne, him being a son of perdition prior to even becoming a pretend to be follower. I would go further to ask if Jesus could have known that it would be Judas that would betray Him and not know He was not a son of God? Even Judas did not know it according to Mat 26:22.
Mat 26:21 Jesus said here that “one of you shall betray me.”
Mat 26:22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

Even the words of Jesus saying “I thirst” in Joh 19:28 was uttered that scripture might be fulfilled. What was Judas’ betrayal to represent in fulfilling scripture? Psa 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

Thanks for the post.

 

[JohnDB]

I dunno how Judas was not a believer.

The walking on water would have been enough for me...

The feeding of thousands would also be enough. (The most I ever fed was 500+ and that was a ton of work). The raising of dead people would have me shaking in my boots/sandals(Lazarus).

So along with the miracles he personally performed (sending of the 12) I would think that Judas really believed in who Jesus was.

Judas was there for 3 1/2 years. A long time for someone who didn't believe. So he had to believe.

But Judas (who didn't know something about Jesus) had to have a major error in his theology.

And to me...that's the scariest thing.

 

[JohnDB]

One other thing...

Since Judas believed...(John 3:16)
But scripture also predicted his fall...

He couldn't have been "saved" (past tense often used for a guaranteed future)

 

[JLB]

.
Brother JLB, to me its evident Judas did not follow Jesus to sitting on a throne, him being a son of perdition prior to even becoming a pretend to be follower. I would go further to ask if Jesus could have known that it would be Judas that would betray Him and not know He was not a son of God? Even Judas did not know it according to Mat 26:22.
Mat 26:21 Jesus said here that “one of you shall betray me.”
Mat 26:22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

Even the words of Jesus saying “I thirst” in Joh 19:28 was uttered that scripture might be fulfilled. What was Judas’ betrayal to represent in fulfilling scripture? Psa 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

Thanks for the post.

Yes, God knew before the foundation of the earth, that Judas would betray Jesus.

It was written in the scriptures, the old testament, proving such.

On this I think we all agree.

What's just as true, is Judas did what all the other Apostles did, but did not continue to the end, for he betrayed Jesus.

Judas believed and was counted as part of the household of Christ, for a while.

That's the point.

If you believe there is more to being saved, then please share that with us.


I think JohnDB makes a good point here:

Judas was there for 3 1/2 years. A long time for someone who didn't believe. So he had to believe.

But Judas (who didn't know something about Jesus) had to have a major error in his theology.

And to me...that's the scariest thing.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Brother JLB, to me its evident Judas did not follow Jesus to sitting on a throne,

But at one point, while Judas was an Apostle, during the 3 1/2 years he was with Jesus, he was appointed to sit on one of the twelve thrones.


That's the point I'm making.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Peter, (not Jesus), said:
And we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”
Jesus replied to them,
“Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is the devil?” Now he was speaking about Judas son of Simon Iscariot, because this one—one of the twelve—was going to betray him.
Clearly, one of the twelve (Judas) was chosen because he did NOT believe Christ from the beginning and was going to betray Jesus.

We have believed, and have come to know, that you are the holy one of God.

That is what the scripture say's.

It does not say, "I" have come to believe...

Thanks for making my point.

Here are some other points for you to answer:

Do you believe it is impossible for a Christian to betray Jesus Christ today.

If a Christian takes the mark of the beast, and worships the antichrist, rather than suffer persecution, isn't that betraying Jesus Christ?

Why is Foxes book of Martyrs filled with those who refused to renounce Christ, but rather they suffered and died, as opposed to those who chose to bow down to the Pope and serve Rome, having departed from the faith?

Before he betrayed Jesus, Judas was a disciple for 3 years, and was promoted to Apostle.

What I have done is point out the scriptures, that teach us about Judas Iscariot, before he fell away from Christ.

Before he was called a "devil", he was a sheep, and a member of the household of Christ.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

• Judas was counted as "a sheep", rather than a wolf.

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Matthew 10:16

• Judas "heard His voice"... for a while.

• Judas "followed Him"... for a while.

• Judas was a part of the "household of Christ"... for a while.

This was said to the twelve before they were sent out, as Apostles.


Matthew 10 -

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

...It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household! Matthew 10:25

5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Hebrews 3:5-6




JLB

 

[chessman]

We have believed, and have come to know, that you are the holy one of God.

That is what the scripture say's.

That is what Scripture records Peter saying.

Like this Scripture:

Matthew 26:35 (LEB) Peter said to him, “Even if it is necessary for me to die with you, I will never deny you!” And all the disciples said the same thing.​

Yet Jesus said:

Matthew 26:34 (LEB) Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you that during this night, before the rooster crows, you will deny me three times!” ​

Do you believe Peter was correct or Jesus? I believe Jesus was correct.

Peter said:

John 6:69 (LEB) And we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” ​

Yet Jesus said;

John 6:64 (LEB) But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.​

Do you believe Peter was correct or Jesus?
I believe Jesus was correct.

 

[JohnDB]

I agree that Peter "betrayed" Jesus in a different but similar fashion as Judas...

I don't think that Peter really understood Jesus either. He understood a lot...but not all. Just like Judas.

So there's a difference between the two...

What is it?

 

[reba]

Both were chosen but for different roles..

 

[JohnDB]

Both were chosen but for different roles..

OK Captain Obvious...

:clown:biggrin

 

[reba]

sheesh no like button

 

[chessman]

Do you believe it is impossible for a Christian to betray Jesus Christ today.

What do you mean by Christian? A member of this site that calls themself a Christian or someone who has the Spirit of Christ living in them? Yes, someone who calls themself a Christian on this site can betray Jesus Christ today. No, someone who has The Spirit of Christ living in them cannot betray Christ.

And what does this question have to do with Jesus saying that from the beginning Judas did not believe?

Before he betrayed Jesus, Judas was a disciple for 3 years, and was promoted to Apostle.

Before Judas betrayed Jesus, Jesus said Judas did not believe and would betray Him.

John 6:64 (NKJV) But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.​

 

[JLB]

First John 2:19 declares, “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.”

Have you ever been a part of a Church congregation, then you left them?


JLB

 

[JLB]

What do you mean by Christian?

A born again Christian.

Do you believe it is impossible for a born again Christian to betray Jesus Christ, by taking the mark of the beast.

Do you believe it is impossible for a born again Christian Pastor's wife, to betray her husband for another man?


JLB

 

[JohnDB]

sheesh no like button

Ok. They were chosen for different roles...and understanding the difference between the two is what I and everyone else is after.

Both betrayed...both sinned...one was forgiven and one was not.

Why?
What's the difference between them?

 

[JLB]

And what does this question have to do with Jesus saying that from the beginning Judas did not believe?

Please post the scripture that says Judas did not ever believe.



JLB

 

[reba]

Ok. They were chosen for different roles...and understanding the difference between the two is what I and everyone else is after.

Both betrayed...both sinned...one was forgiven and one was not.

Why?
What's the difference between them?

I will restate my first answer They were chosen for different roles..
Judas did not have a choice .. the plan of God had been laid out from the beginning Judas was an important part of that plan... God looks on the heart, He knew the heart of Judas... Just as He knows our hearts...