Judas Iscariot: Saved for a while.

[abide]

I would like to examine some scriptures that involve Judas Iscariot, to see if we can learn from his mistakes, and avoid falling away from Christ, as we see the Day of the Lord approaching.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

• Judas could have reigned with Jesus Christ, had he continued with the Lord.
• This was spoken to Judas Iscariot, before he betrayed Jesus.
• Judas, like the rest of us, had a choice to make during his life.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no one live in it’;
and, ‘Let another take his office.’ Acts 1:16-20

• Let their dwelling place be desolate; Let no one live in their tents.26 For they persecute the ones You have struck, And talk of the grief of those You have wounded.27 Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into Your righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. Psalm 69:25-28

Judas Iscariot ended up being "blotted out" of the book of life, as he did not overcome, but fell away.



JLB

I think there is a Judas in all of us. The lessons from the word of God is clear, what has happened is for our learning.
But as one great man said. Those who don't learn from history tend to repeat the same mistakes.

Money matter more to Judas. Judas was travelling with Jesus but he was not a follower.

 

[ezra]

What Judas Didn't Know

 

[reba]

JLB
We are not going to agree about Judas...
The picture in my mind of him is like a Christian in name only. Disciple in name only....
We know God looks on our hearts He knew the heart of Judas was to use His words " the devil"
abide said it very well... Post # 101...
Reply if you wish i dont think i will continue as we are not going to change anything..
Been good talking with ya it has been a while..

 

[JLB]

I think there is a Judas in all of us. The lessons from the word of God is clear, what has happened is for our learning.
But as one great man said. Those who don't learn from history tend to repeat the same mistakes.

I for one, don't want to end up like Judas, so I will embrace what the word says, and apply it to myself.

There are two basic tactics, the enemy uses, once a person has received the Gospel message, to get them to fall away.

If he can't steal the word out of our heart, before we receive the word, he will bring persecution, or the desire for more of the things of this world.

11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:11-15

There is only one group, represented among the four, who end up receiving the salvation of their souls.

Those who... having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.


This principle is echoed throughout the New Testament writings, for all who have ears to hear.



JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB
We are not going to agree about Judas...
The picture in my mind of him is like a Christian in name only. Disciple in name only....
We know God looks on our hearts He knew the heart of Judas was to use His words " the devil"
abide said it very well... Post # 101...
Reply if you wish i dont think i will continue as we are not going to change anything..
Been good talking with ya it has been a while..

Ok, I think we agree on more of Judas than you are letting on.

16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Matthew 10:16

Wasn't this said to Judas, who was among the twelve?

Here is a scripture pointing to some of why i do not believe Judas had a choice.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Thanks for being honest.


Some people would never admit that they believe Judas never had a choice, which means Judas was forced to betray Jesus, or that Judas was created by God as evil, as a son of perdition, for the purpose of betraying Jesus.


What I see in the scriptures is that God "foresaw" the choice Judas made, and prophesied about it before, in the old testament.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Money matter more to Judas. Judas was travelling with Jesus but he was not a follower.

Judas had a choice.

Tell Jesus about his temptation with money, or [attempt] hide it from the Lord.

We have the same choice.



JLB

 

[JLB]

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. 9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:6-12

For the words of verse 6 to be true, just as the words of verse 12 are true, we must consider this:

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

• Judas was given to Jesus, out of the world.
• Judas kept His word... for a while.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.


Judas was a thief, and could have repented, but instead, continued stealing until, the enemy who exploited this sin, and used it to gain access to Judas, for the purpose of betraying Jesus.


Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. 2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. 4 So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. 5 And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6 So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude.
Luke 22:1-6

The plan of Satan is revealed here, as he worked in the minds of the chief priest's and scribes, plotting to kill Jesus, and using the one who was walking in unrepented sin, among the Lord's Apostles, to betray the Lord.


Entered: Strong's G1525 - eiserchomai

1. to go out or come in: to enter
   
   1. of men or animals, as into a house or a city
   2. of Satan taking possession of the body of a person
   3. of things: as food, that enters into the eater's mouth
      
2. metaph.
   
   1. of entrance into any condition, state of things, society, employment
      
      1. to arise, come into existence, begin to be
      2. of men, to come before the public
      3. to come into life
         
   2. of thoughts that come into the mind
      

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18






JLB

 

[JLB]

wrong. John says that Jesus knew who didn't believe from the beginning AND would betray him. That's Judas. He didn't believe AND he betrayed Jesus. Now you might not like the fact that Jesus knew that Judas didn't believe AND would betray Him. But that's exactly what it says.

John 6:64 (LEB) But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.​

Just like Jesus says the good soil was the one that understood the word about the kingdom, yet you say the rocky ground understood it too.

WRONG!

You are not reading the whole context:

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve. John 6:61-71

The scripture refers to those who didn't believe, by stating this: From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.


Did Judas continue following Jesus, along with the twelve ?


Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

devil: Strong's G1228 - diabolos

1. prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
   
   1. a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
      
2. metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him
   

Judas chose to side with the devil, against the Lord.





JLB

 

[chessman]

You are not reading the whole context:

Wrong.
I have read the whole context. That''s how I know that there were some of His disciples that did not believe. And it is how I know that there was one of His disciples that from the beginning did not believe AND would betray Him. That disciple was Judas.

Did Judas continue following Jesus, along with the twelve ?

Yes.

John 6:64 (LEB) But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.

Did Jesus know from the beginning that Judas did not believe and would betray Him? I say yes. What say you?

 

[JLB]

Wrong.
I have read the whole context. That''s how I know that there were some of His disciples that did not believe. And it is how I know that there was one of His disciples that from the beginning did not believe AND would betray Him. That disciple was Judas.

• Did Judas "go away" from Jesus with the other disciples who no longer believed?

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve. John 6:61-71

The scripture refers to those who didn't believe, by stating this: From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.


Did Judas continue following Jesus, along with the twelve ?


Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

devil:Strong's G1228 - diabolos

1. prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
   1. a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
2. metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him

Judas chose to side with the devil, against the Lord.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I would like to examine some scriptures that involve Judas Iscariot, to see if we can learn from his mistakes, and avoid falling away from Christ, as we see the Day of the Lord approaching.

The problem with this OP is that there are no verses that indicate that he ever "fell away" from Christ. In fact, there is a passage that clearly indicates that he was never saved.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

Again, the problem is obvious. When Matt was written, which is between 50 and 70 AD, the "replacement" apostle had already been chosen per Acts 1:26.

Judas could have reigned with Jesus Christ, had he continued with the Lord.

No evidence that he was ever saved.

This was spoken to Judas Iscariot, before he betrayed Jesus.

No evidence that it was spoken to Judas. And there is no indication that Judas actually followed Him. He was described throughout the gospels as an opportunistic thief.

Judas, like the rest of us, had a choice to make during his life.

This is true of everyone in humanity, and has no bearing on the OP.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples(altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out.19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, and let no one live in it’;
and, ‘Let another take his office.’ Acts 1:16-20

Let their dwelling place be desolate; Let no one live in their tents.26 For they persecute the ones You have struck, And talk of the grief of those You have wounded.27 Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into Your righteousness. 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. Psalm 69:25-28

None of these verses support the OP either.

Judas Iscariot ended up being "blotted out" of the book of life, as he did not overcome, but fell away.
JLB

Again, there is no evidence that ANYONE has EVER been blotted out of the book of life. The phrase from Revelation is a figure of speech called a litotes, which is a gross understatement to emphasis the opposite.

However, the point is that there are no verses about anyone being blotted out of the book of life.

Now, for proof that Judas was never saved.

1. There are no verses that say that he believed ever.
2. The Bible specifically comments on the fact that Judas was not saved, and this was before the betrayal, which the OP seems to think is when he "lost" his salvation.

John 13:10-11
10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you." 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean. NIV

In v.10, the phrase "and you are clean" was specifically said to Peter, who wanted a bath, rather than just his feet washed, so Jesus had to remind him that he was "already clean", meaning already saved. The foot washing was for fellowship with Jesus, per v.8, when Jesus said this to Peter: "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me."

Then, in v.11, Jesus clarifies that not "every one was clean", meaning, saved. And the first part of v.11 shows us who that unsaved, unclean person was; the betrayer, Judas.

The OP failed to follow forum rules of engagement, which is to provide Scripture that supports the OP. This OP did not provide any Scripture that indicated that Judas ever believed in Jesus as Messiah, or that he was saved.

Secondly, the OP failed to provide any Scripture that indicated that anyone has ever been "blotted out" of the book of life.

 

[FreeGrace]

Can you post a scripture that says he did believe

This is the key to this wholly unsupported OP.

 

[reba]

Lets leave this thread to be about Judas.. .then it just might not get closed

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Lets leave this thread to be about Judas.. .then it just might not get closed

You are no fun.

 

[FreeGrace]

Lets leave this thread to be about Judas.. .then it just might not get closed

But it was about Judas. And the lack of Scriptural support for what the OP said about him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But it was about Judas. And the lack of Scriptural support for what the OP said about him.

It was a warning.
She knows how you are about 'gifts'.....being so close to Christmas and all.

 

[reba]

Thanks Jethro Bodine Yes a warning to all of us...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks Jethro Bodine Yes a warning to all of us...

 

[reba]

But it was about Judas. And the lack of Scriptural support for what the OP said about him.

Yup i know,, i could have made the statement like this is "to all of us" .. but some times when that is what is in my head i forget YOU GUYS are NOT mind readers

 

[FreeGrace]

Yup i know,, i could have made the statement like this is "to all of us" .. but some times when that is what is in my head i forget YOU GUYS are NOT mind readers

Aren't there forum rules about posting without supporting verses?

That was the basis for your post in #62.