Justification and Sanctification

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

If I understand Ephesians 2:10 it is Christ that has accomplished the good works that we are to walk in, not do them. How do we walk in them? By faith.
Justification is a one time happening. Justification means that when God looks at a justified person he sees the cross of Christ and it is the cross that "makes us as if we had never sinned".
Sanctification is the setting apart of an individual to accomplish what God has called us to do. It is a "many times" occasion.

 

[ezra]

dirtfarmer here

If I understand Ephesians 2:10 it is Christ that has accomplished the good works that we are to walk in, not do them. How do we walk in them? By faith.
Justification is a one time happening. Justification means that when God looks at a justified person he sees the cross of Christ and it is the cross that "makes us as if we had never sinned".
Sanctification is the setting apart of an individual to accomplish what God has called us to do. It is a "many times" occasion.

:amen

 

[JLB]

Who continues to do good? No one,

That would be your opinion.

Here’s what the Bible teaches, who will receive eternal life.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Now please answer the question I asked.

If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Is this empowerment automatic, and beyond your own control??? If so, please provide actual Scripture that teaches this.

Because Paul was clear to teach that we (believes) are to STOP grieving the Holy Spirit (Eph 4:30) and STOP quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:18).

How can one continue to do good when one IS grieving and/or quenching the Spirit? Please answer.

I asked you a simple question.

Asking another question is just a dodge.


If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?


JLB

 

[JLB]

nopers not going down that road again done gave a answer ..have you ever done evil . might i add define evil

Now you know why I don’t bother addressing your questions, because it’s always the same ole thing, you never answer the questions I ask.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Hey, let's be clear here. Works is BAD regarding salvation, because no one is saved by works. But works is the ONLY way to be rewarded in eternity. That's always the issue. Not just "works" without any context."

We here who enjoy WORKING for God cannot help it if you and others who feel as you do cannot agree.

I guess my post was not understood. What would lead anyone to falsely assume that I don't enjoy working for God?? Where did I suggest that? The issue is salvation by works or by grace. Period.

I know that works has become a bad word.

I didn't know that. Where do you know that from?

Sometimes I say deeds, sometimes I stick to works. Jesus Himself used the word works.

How is any of this relevant to the issue of salvation by works or by grace?

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This proves that salvation is by faith (grace) and not by works.

Titus 3:14 - And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Titus 3:8 - [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

These verses show WHY all believers are to maintain GOOD WORKS. It's profitable for others.

James 2:14-20 - What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

One of the most abused and misunderstood verses in the Bible. The chapter is about hypocrisy, yet without using that specific word. Just read 2:15,16 to see blatant hypocrisy. So, v.14 is warning of being delivered, saved, rescued from the charge of being a hypocrite.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Yes, our GOOD WORKS are profitable to others, just as Titus 3:8 says.

James 2:20-24 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Same idea as 2:14-20.

Titus 2:7 - In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine [shewing] uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Yes, all believers are commanded to have GOOD WORKS.

Hebrews 13:21 - Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Yep.

I've given up telling you that WORKS DO NOT SAVE.
Epeshians 2:8

Then quit making your posts seem to suggest otherwise.

But once we ARE SAVED, works are necessary to fulfill the requirement of remaining in the Kingdom of God which is right here on Earth.

Then please provide ANY verses that actually say so. So far, what has been provided says no such thing.

And, if that were true, then what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life cannot be true. So your comment clearly suggests that what Jesus said isn't true. That puts your view on very shaky ground.

 

[FreeGrace]

this is what i more or less keep reading into all this. allmost like the finished work at the cross is not enough

There is no other conclusion to such claims and views.

 

[FreeGrace]

dirtfarmer said: ↑
dirtfarmer here

If I understand Ephesians 2:10 it is Christ that has accomplished the good works that we are to walk in, not do them. How do we walk in them? By faith.
Justification is a one time happening. Justification means that when God looks at a justified person he sees the cross of Christ and it is the cross that "makes us as if we had never sinned".
Sanctification is the setting apart of an individual to accomplish what God has called us to do. It is a "many times" occasion.

:amen

:amen

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"Who continues to do good? No one,"

That would be your opinion.

Wow. That was what Paul the apostle wrote. Such a descrption of what Scripture SAYS shows a lack of regard for Scripture.

Here’s what the Bible teaches, who will receive eternal life.

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

I've already refuted your opinion of this.

Now please answer the question I asked.

If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?

I've already shown the answer, from Scripture.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1 Thess 5:18 - Do not quench the Spirit.

If a believer is grieving or quenching the Spirit, are they doing evil, or good?

Please answer.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked you a simple question.

Asking another question is just a dodge.


If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?
JLB

Any believer who is grieving or quenching the Spirit has chosen to do evil. And the Bible makes it clear that believers are to STOP doing it.

Your question reveals a serious lack of understanding of spiritual growth.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I said:
"Who continues to do good? No one,"

Wow. That was what Paul the apostle wrote. Such a descrption of what Scripture SAYS shows a lack of regard for Scripture.


I've already refuted your opinion of this.


I've already shown the answer, from Scripture.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1 Thess 5:18 - Do not quench the Spirit.

If a believer is grieving or quenching the Spirit, are they doing evil, or good?

Please answer.

There is no grace for believers who continue in sinful lifestyle despite accepting Christ as Lord and savior
Hebrews 6:6 ►
and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Why is it so difficult for today's Christian to understand that there is no grace without obedience ? Didn't James warn that faith without works is dead ?
Didn't Christ warn that unless we do the will of Father God nobody will enter the kingdom of heaven ( Matthew 7: 18-28)
What about this warning of the Christ?
Matthew 18:3 ►

And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
It's very obvious to me that Jesus will deny entry to many who believed in Him but didn't choose to follow Him or change their sinful life style. Instead they started convincing each other that " we've been saved now that we believe "
First of all craving salvation it's self us incorrect . The joy must come from abiding in the love Of Christ and keeping His commands . Didn't the Lord say clearly
John 12:25 ►

Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

See my friends , just by quoting verses will not change Christ's expectations from us His disciples of keeping His commands and bearing much fruit John 15:5-6
Please stop craving Salvation my friends. Learn to love instead . Love ALL . Christ is God is Love . And if the story of Bible teaches us any one single thing , it is LOVE. Let us then learn to love and leave salvation to the Lord . For this reason I stopped going to churches where they wete guaranteeing Salvation even as they were judging (condemning) other religions. Like " oh Catholics are going to hell" Really ? How do YOU know. Are YOU God? Didn't Jesus warn us fo not judge lest you be judged and the measure you use shall be used against you
Matthew 7 :1-2
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

It's obvious when we condemn others for whatever reason , whether or not they go to hell or heaven we don't know . But one thing is sure . We will be condemned for condemning others . My dear friends I can go on and on and on. To me it's crystal clear --- the message of Bible ---- that free gift of grace is only for those believers who made an effort to keep the Lords commands and endeavored to pick up their cross denied their flesh and followed the righteous Lord. I end with this fear friends . Christian walk is a very very hard work. And there will be much pain and trials in this life for the believer . But the reward of that is so great that it makes it well worth it. That being said one should not choose to follow the Lord just get visa into heaven but for the sake of Lords love and what He did for us , the entire humanity, on the cross . Please stop coveting salvation or guaranteeing it. It is just not Biblical. There is a huge potential when you follow the Lord but none knows who will be saved or Not saved. Blessings to all

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

self

I wish to add if no one can be saved by good works only, then I staunchly believe the Bible also strongly and repeatedly reminds us that NEITHER CAN mere faith without good works save us. And if this is NOT being taught by pastors and teachers then I would go so far as to say they're teaching HERESY. It deeply disturbs me how are they missing such a vital point of prudent Christian doctrine --OBEDIENCE , huh?

 

[ezra]

Now you know why I don’t bother addressing your questions, because it’s always the same ole thing, you never answer the questions I ask.

tell ya what ask your question ..if memory serves right you asked if it was ok to do evil or something of that nature..if not mistaken i replied no .see i asked in return what do you consider evil ? murder being mean to some one dishonest ? these are all words we would use to define evil here is the post

↑
so all i have to do is just do good?
If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?


JLB

↑
{we shouldn't } < -----my answer was / have you ever had a bad thought ?but that was not my point i said all i have to do is good . ? sometimes doing wrong is not always necessary evil.. we frown on adultery yet tend to like gossip colossians 3 : 8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. ever been ticked off to anger and wrath? yes we are empowered by his spirit... the Holy Spirit gives the power the ability to forsake sin i agree there are things we are suppose to do. but we can,t do it on our own
Let’s try it again.

If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?


JLB

not real sure where this ties in with being justified//// just as if we had never sinned and sanctified set a apart which the 2 is part of our holiness . your a great Bible student the one thing i have noticed is you say JESUS IS WAY TRUTH LIFE.and saved by grace through faith not of works . then there appears as you want to bring in that these good works we do which follows salvation . keeps us saved ! would this be correct? if not feel free to explain but to try to give you a better answer after all cheese and cracker goes well with wine lol .i would hope one would not chose to do evil... the spirit gives us the power to not to do but does not prevent . we have to put forth a effort that help?

 

[ezra]

I wish to add if no one can be saved by good works only, then I staunchly believe the Bible also strongly and repeatedly reminds us that NEITHER CAN mere faith without good works save us. And if this is NOT being taught by pastors and teachers then I would go so far as to say they're teaching HERESY. It deeply disturbs me how are they missing such a vital point of prudent Christian doctrine --OBEDIENCE , huh?

faith is the key but Grace which is Jesus is the saving element but good works will not save anyone

 

[chessman]

Those who choose the remain immoral and spend their time gratifying the flesh and practicing the works thereof, will be condemned.

What he actually said was that; ... those who are “self-seeking” and do not “obey (which also means believe)” the truth will receive wrath.

The truth of the Christian faith is that; you cannot seek salvation by self-righteousness and obtain salvation that way. Self-seekers get wrath.

 

[JLB]

What he actually said was that; ... those who are “self-seeking” and do not “obey (which also means believe)” the truth will receive wrath.

The truth of the Christian faith is that; you cannot seek salvation by self-righteousness and obtain salvation that way. Self-seekers get wrath.

Glad to see you have changed your view.

Sell seeking Christians who obey unrighteousness will receive God’s wrath on the Day of Judgement.

Those who take heed to the work of sanctification, and seek for honor and immortality will receive eternal life, because they have learned to obey the truth.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

What can’t be denied is the truth that teaches us that every Christian will be judged according to their deeds.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JLB

 

[JLB]

Any believer who is grieving or quenching the Spirit has chosen to do evil. And the Bible makes it clear that believers are to STOP doing it.

Your question reveals a serious lack of understanding of spiritual growth.

More opinion

 

[JLB]

tell ya what ask your question ..if memory serves right you asked if it was ok to do evil or something of that nature..if not mistaken i replied no .see i asked in return what do you consider evil ? murder being mean to some one dishonest ? these are all words we would use to define evil here is the post not real sure where this ties in with being justified//// just as if we had never sinned and sanctified set a apart which the 2 is part of our holiness . your a great Bible student the one thing i have noticed is you say JESUS IS WAY TRUTH LIFE.and saved by grace through faith not of works . then there appears as you want to bring in that these good works we do which follows salvation . keeps us saved ! would this be correct? if not feel free to explain but to try to give you a better answer after all cheese and cracker goes well with wine lol .i would hope one would not chose to do evil... the spirit gives us the power to not to do but does not prevent . we have to put forth a effort that help?

Last time.

If you are born again, and are empowered by His Spirit, why would you choose to do evil?

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JLB

 

[Traveling teacher]

I dont see in the scriptures where it says you can separate justification and sanctification.....
If you are not sqmctified you are not justified......
Justification is a lifelong relationship with your heavenly Father......
Sqnctification is a lifelong relationship with God through His son Jesus Christ.....

Without holiness no on can see God,,,,!!!!,
Hebrew 12:14

 

[dirtfarmer]

I dont see in the scriptures where it says you can separate justification and sanctification.....
If you are not sqmctified you are not justified......
Justification is a lifelong relationship with your heavenly Father......
Sqnctification is a lifelong relationship with God through His son Jesus Christ.....

Without holiness no on can see God,,,,!!!!,
Hebrew 12:14

hello Traveling teacher, dirtfarmer here

You have reversed the order: If you are not Justified you can't be sanctified. The lifelong relationship with God is always through his Son. Without the crucifixion of Christ on the cross, a relationship with God cannot be established. Christ is the righteousness of God that has been imputed to those that believe in the cross-work of Christ.