All men are sinners and deserve hell, so if God by Grace save some, how is that making God partial ? It makes God Gracious, Merciful, unless you believe sinful men deserve Gods Grace and Mercy. Do you believe that.
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Limited atonement !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
journeyman
Member
Pardon me if I'm misunderstanding you, but you appear to believe Jesus rose from death for a reason no human being could understand, but the Bible says,
God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1Pet.1:21
This miracle was to help people have faith in him.
crossnote
Member
I'm sorry, I was hoping someone could answer my question using God's Word rather than man's logic and counter-questioning. At least quote from the Westminster or Belgic rather than your own reasoning so there is some common ground to work from.
Limited atonement is taught plainly in scripture !
Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.
That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep !
Even though the natural man will attempt to explain away the truth of God as to who Christ specifically came to saved through His blood, yet the testimony of God is true and all men liars.
That Christs death is limited to only a certain segment of men is seen here , a clear statement limiting the recipients of His Death, the Angelic heavenly testimony here Matt 1:20-21
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
His People here is another way of saying His Elect/Sheep !
This thread is about why the scripture teaches a limited atonement.Pardon me if I'm misunderstanding you, but you appear to believe Jesus rose from death for a reason no human being could understand, but the Bible says,
God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1Pet.1:21
This miracle was to help people have faith in him.
crossnote
Member
Scripture tells exactly who are His people...
(Joh 1:12) But to all who did receive him, he gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in his name,
(Joh 1:13) who were born, not of natural descent, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.
crossnote
Member
It's limited for sure, it's benefits are limited to those who believe.
journeyman
Member
If you mean only the faithful are saved. I agree. God gives all mankind reasons to believe in him, such as,
these are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ Jn.20:31
Once again, scripture plainly teaches limited atonement, for the Sheep
Right, if one never believes then Christ didn't die for them, because they were not His Sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Only those Christ died for and caused to be faithful are the ones He died for, all others who never believe and die in their sins as unbelievers, He never died for them
journeyman
Member
Specifically, our Savior died for all people,
he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world. 1Jn.2:2
You seem to think God created people with no ability to think about him.
crossnote
Member
Equally Scripture teaches…
Romans 11:32 KJV
[32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
crossnote
Member
That could equally be said …’you are not my sheep, because you do not believe.’
180 degrees backwards.
Jesus Christ died for unbelievers, sinners, those who are His enemies.
Those who believe are saved.
Those who do not believe are not saved.
- while we were still sinners, Christ died for us
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. Romans 5:6-10
- …when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son
Jesus did not come to save the already saved!
Jesus did not die on the cross for the already saved!
Jesus didn’t rise from the dead to give eternal life to the already saved!
Jesus Christ was sent by God the Father to die on the cross for the world, so that the world through Him might be saved.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
This truth will never change, no matter how much you try to redefine what the “world” means.
JLB
Dorothy Mae
Member
“Whosoever will” is a problem for the limited atonement camp.
crossnote
Member
IOW, under Calvinism, it seems like God sets up a fixed system only to judge as guilty those that don't conform to that system (if non conforming is even possible).
crossnote
Member
They will simply say only those who respond are part of the 'whosoever will' group...which have been predestined to believe.
Dorothy Mae
Member
I don’t recognize that description as Calvinism. A Calvinist ought to answer but I don’t think this is it. Am I wrong?
Dorothy Mae
Member
I laughed out loud again. I guess you’re right… Got me there…