BPPLEE
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Limited atonement !
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Dorothy Mae
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If those choices are already set in stone before birth, then choice is an illusion. Do you see what I mean?
And truthfully, we all know that we DO have the ability and responsibility to make choices. That why the theology is difficult. It doesn’t match real life.
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Dorothy Mae
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If atonement is limited to those God chose for Heaven before they were born, then no one needs bother about these eternal choices as human choices doesn’t matter. It fits in with the OP.
crossnote
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Peter, John and Paul seem to state otherwise...
1 Peter 1:23 (NASB) for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
John 1:12 (NASB) But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Romans 10:17 (NASB) So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
crossnote
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A Calvinist would say if you weren't predestined, you'd still have no free will (choice) because you'd be under the tyranny of the world, the flesh and satan (which I would partially agree), but the question remains, 'did Christ die for only a few' or for 'the whole world'?
Dorothy Mae
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It was predestined so.
Dorothy Mae
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For whosoever will
crossnote
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...yes, He died for those too!
brightfame52
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He did have other Sheep, even before they heard and believed.
brightfame52
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All you doing is giving me your philosophy, has nothing to do with scripture truth as far as i can see.
Dorothy Mae
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You want a verse? I’ve given the important bit often…. “whosever believes in Him” means anyone which means NO ONE is preselected to believe.
Dorothy Mae
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Shall I give more… For God so loved the WORLD (not merely the elect.)
For its not his will that any perish…means some perish against his will/choice
Unless you repent (not unless you are the elect) you will all likewise perish.
These are from memory, not a “how to answer the limited atonement bunch.”
I cannot imagine that anyone who loves God would accuse Him of predestining some for Heaven and others for Hell. And yes that’s my view, but it’s held by many observing the church from the outside to see if the God worshipped is even just. The god who preselects is seen, rightly so, as terribly unjust.
Make no mistake, all who choose to surrender and believe are predestined to be conformed into the character of Jesus. (Ephesians) They aren’t predestined for Heaven no matter what they turn out to be.
crossnote
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Here's a tough nut to crack, is this verse talking about Jesus or the elect?...
(Rom 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The first part appears to be referring to believers (
(Rom 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,)
, the latter part to Jesus (
(Rom 8:29) ( that he might be the firstborn among many brethren).
(Rom 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The first part appears to be referring to believers (
(Rom 8:29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,)
, the latter part to Jesus (
(Rom 8:29) ( that he might be the firstborn among many brethren).
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Yes thats it. And we can be assured because thats what the "scripture" so plainly teaches.
For God so loved the
JLB
Dorothy Mae
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Dorothy Mae
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This is easy. The plan is that Jesus would be the first born from many others, those being predestined to be in character like Jesus so that he can call them “siblings.” There is no other plan. There is no “save as many from hell as possible” plan.
brightfame52
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There is no verse that says that, again your own philosophy !
brightfame52
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Again your own thoughts, and lets please get back to limited atonement.
Dorothy Mae
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No, actually I gave scripture. I hope I’m not coming across as cheeky, but didn’t you recognize the verses? Those aren’t my thoughts but the writers of the Bible.
Dorothy Mae
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“For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.“
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