Living without sin ?

[JLB]

Obey and live.
Disobey and suffer the second death.
Paul doesn't command the impossible...thank God.

Yes, Paul does not command the impossible.


So you agree that we who have the Spirit must not let the sin in our body reign over us?


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12



JLB

 

[JLB]

You keep posting verses that preach the message of freedom from sin.
Thanks.

Been doing it for years.

The point is our body does contain sin, so we are called to be in harmony with the Spirit to put to death the sinful deeds of the flesh, because the flesh contains sin.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13.



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, Jesus had a sinless body, we do not.

Why not?
We were both (re)born of God's seed.
Both have continual access to the Father.
Both have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Actually, I have been on this Forum for the last 9 years promoting the doctrine of Christ, which has everything to do with living a new life by the Spirit, rather than living like our old life by the flesh.

Why do reject my words implying it is possible then?
Why do you reject the words I post describing how it can happen?

For you to make up a lie about me that says “you can’t grasp the idea of freedom from sin” is no only a lie, which is sin, but is blatantly false.

I reserve comment in the interest of harmony.

Do you believe our physical body becomes sinless, cleansed of sin at water baptism?

Yes, as we are reborn of God's seed when are "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life".

A simple yes or no would be refreshing.

Yes.

 

[Hopeful]

Everyone has that power who has been born again, and has received the Holy Spirit.

Amen.
It is the unregenerated that don't have power over sin and the devil.
Answer from: "It’s a born again new nature empowered by the Spirit, which gives us power over the sin in our flesh, and the devil."

I have that power. I also teach that we should not sin. But if we do, we can confess our sin, learn from our mistake, and be forgiven.
Just like the scriptures teach.

If you have that power, how can you still commit sin?
I hope you aren't suggesting you have temporary lapses of rebirth-new nature.
It would suggest some inefficacy in the Lord's death on our behalf.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
Do you confess your sins?

I don't commit sin, because I am reborn of God's seed and have a new, divine, nature.
Sinners don't know Christ.
It is written..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, Paul does not command the impossible.
So you agree that we who have the Spirit must not let the sin in our body reign over us?
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Yes, I agree we are to keep ourselves pure.
I thank God for all I need to do so.

 

[Hopeful]

Been doing it for years.

The point is our body does contain sin, so we are called to be in harmony with the Spirit to put to death the sinful deeds of the flesh, because the flesh contains sin.

If it still contained sin, Jesus blood wasn't sufficient to wash away all our past sins.
It would also nullify any rebirth from God's seed.
Grape seeds cannot bring forth apples.
God's seed cannot bring forth liars and thieves.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13.

There it is, the death sentence for sinners.
It is the second death they will partake in.

BTW, the KJV says..."... but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Rom 8:13)
To me, mortify means "keep dead".

 

[JLB]

Why not?
We were both (re)born of God's seed.

We do not have a sinless body because our physical body was not reborn. I would think by now you would know that.

Our bodies still contain sin, and we’re not reborn.

We were reborn spiritually, not physically.

This “doctrine” you have embraced of sinless perfection, has blocked you from seeing all the other scriptures that teach us the truth about our physical body and the sin it contains.


We have a born again spirit, not a born again physical body.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

JLB

 

[JLB]

If it still contained sin, Jesus blood wasn't sufficient to wash away all our past sins.

Jesus blood is sufficient to wash away all our past sins.


Our physical body will die because of the sin it contains, but be resurrected with a new body that will not die anymore, because it will no longer contain sin; then we will have bodies like Jesus, that shine like the sun.


Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:34-36


Now in this life our bodies are corrupt because of the sin it contains.
When we are raised, we will be raised incorruptible and sinless, and thus being immortal; having bodies that will no longer die.


Then at that time, we can say, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. Until then we will persevere in the hope of eternal life.


Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

• So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Again, our bodies will not be incorruptible (sinless) until we are raised incorruptible at the resurrection which occurs at His coming; at the last trumpet.

• For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible

JLB

 

[Hopeful]

We do not have a sinless body because our physical body was not reborn. I would think by now you would know that.

Were that true, no reborn person is a new creature.
I believe 2 Cor 5:17 is true..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Our bodies still contain sin, and we’re not reborn.
We were reborn spiritually, not physically.

Partial rebirth is not what Jesus died for.

This “doctrine” you have embraced of sinless perfection, has blocked you from seeing all the other scriptures that teach us the truth about our physical body and the sin it contains.

Was Jesus being truthful when He said..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)??
Free of what, you ask?
Jesus said..."Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)

The tri=uth has freed me from committing sin.
It can do the same for you.

We have a born again spirit, not a born again physical body.
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

So now you are born of water AND Spirit?
Two of you are walking around?
I call that the split-personality doctrine.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

I missed the part where He said "some of that which is reborn is born of the Spirit."

That POV also denies Romans 6:6.... Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Adherents of your POV can't say that.
Their bodies are still alive and committing wicked deeds.

Men walking after the flesh cannot walk after the Spirit.

 

[Hopeful]

Jesus blood is sufficient to wash away all our past sins.

Then your vessel has no sin on/in it.

Our physical body will die because of the sin it contains, but be resurrected with a new body that will not die anymore, because it will no longer contain sin; then we will have bodies like Jesus, that shine like the sun.

The vessel will waste away regardless of our conduct.
It is temporary.
That isn't because it has sin in it, but because Adam and Eve loused things up.

Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:34-36

Now in this life our bodies are corrupt because of the sin it contains.
When we are raised, we will be raised incorruptible and sinless, and thus being immortal; having bodies that will no longer die.

You need to show at least one scripture stating our reborn of the seed of God vessel contain sin.
Your allusions are wrong.

Then at that time, we can say, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY. Until then we will persevere in the hope of eternal life.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

• So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Again, our bodies will not be incorruptible (sinless) until we are raised incorruptible at the resurrection which occurs at His coming; at the last trumpet.

• For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible

I get it, you are assigning sin to the vessel because it gets old and perishes.
But the vessel only lasts a certain amount of years no matter what kind of spirit it is inhabited by.
An inanimate object (our vessels) cannot commit sin.
The vessel can only do what the mind tell it to do or not do.
Analogy time...Do you blame your paint job when your car needs service?
You are blaming the "bottle" for "rancid wine".

 

[JLB]

Then your vessel has no sin on/in it.

Sorry sir, but each of us has a body which contains sin.


This admonition was given to those who were water baptized.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


We, born again Christians, have been empowered by the Spirit, so that we can live our lives in dominion over the sinful desires of our flesh.

Thats why we are instructed to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to flesh, because the flesh desires to gratify its lustful cravings.


Paul describes the “works” or ”actions” of the flesh which is sin.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21



Do you agree that the works of the flesh is sin?



The way we overcome these sinful desires that come from our flesh, our physical body, is by the Spirit; we walk according to the desires of the Spirit who dwells in our inner man, rather than walking according to the sinful desires of our physical body.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17



JLB

 

[JLB]

That isn't because it has sin in it, but because Adam and Eve loused things up.

So your saying our bodies are sinless?

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry sir, but each of us has a body which contains sin.

If you are convinced that that is true, you will die in your sins
I know it to be false, and will live forever.

This admonition was given to those who were water baptized.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

You treat it like an undoable chore.
I see it as an exhortation to obey for eternal life.

We, born again Christians, have been empowered by the Spirit, so that we can live our lives in dominion over the sinful desires of our flesh.

Ergo, how can (supposed) sin in your skin and bones have any impact on your life?

Thats why we are instructed to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to flesh, because the flesh desires to gratify its lustful cravings.

Thanks be to God for the way to crucify the flesh, with the vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
No flesh or lusts=no sin.

Paul describes the “works” or ”actions” of the flesh which is sin.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Again, now that my flesh, with its vile affections and lust has been crucified, they have no power over me.
They are just memories from my vile past.

Do you agree that the works of the flesh is sin?

Yes.

The way we overcome these sinful desires that come from our flesh, our physical body, is by the Spirit; we walk according to the desires of the Spirit who dwells in our inner man, rather than walking according to the sinful desires of our physical body.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

Again, thanks be to God for allowing our death on the cross with Jesus and for our resurrection from the dead with Jesus so we can walk in newness of life...incapable of sinning anymore, as we are reborn from God's seed.

 

[Hopeful]

So your saying our bodies are sinless?

It isn't "our" body anymore.
It is the temple of the Holy Ghost.
It is sanctified and fit for Gods use, on earth.

Let me ask you this...
Will your hands be punished in hell more than your toe nails?
I mean, what sin can a toe nail do?
What sin can your hair do? Your knees? Your appendix?
They are all invariably controlled by a mind that can be made new.
The vessel is just a carrying case for the mind.
The mind bears all the blame.
The body has no power to do anything contrary to the mind.
Don't give it so much credit as an entity that can defile you.

 

[JLB]

If you are convinced that that is true, you will die in your sins
I know it to be false, and will live forever.

Those Christians who refuse to confess their sins so they can be forgiven will die in their sins.



JLB

 

[JLB]

It isn't "our" body anymore.
It is the temple of the Holy Ghost.
It is sanctified and fit for Gods use, on earth.

It is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Nevertheless it is our responsibility not to let the sin in it reign over us.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Romans 6:12

 

[Hopeful]

Those Christians who refuse to confess their sins so they can be forgiven will die in their sins.
JLB

That is like saying "Those carrots hanging from the apple tree taste funny?
Apple trees cannot bear carrots, and God's seed cannot bring forth sinners.

If men have sins to confess, they can be washed away by the blood of Christ so they can say they have no sin.
They can then remain in the light so you don't commit more sins.
Then they can call themselves Christians.

 

[Hopeful]

It is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Nevertheless it is our responsibility not to let the sin in it reign over us.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Romans 6:12

Yes it is, and God has made that task possible for all men.
Glory be to God !!!

 

[JLB]

That is like saying "Those carrots hanging from the apple tree taste funny?

Actually it’s not.

Man is spirit, soul and physical body.

Our body contains sin that comes from Adam.

Once our spirit is born again, it has a new nature; the nature of God.

Our spirit undergoes the new birth, not our flesh.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6


Our bodies are change at the resurrection, at His coming.



Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:1-53


For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


Do you understand that “this (present tense) corruptible” refers to our physical body, that remains corruptible until the resurrection when it puts on incorruption?

This change from corruption to incorruption, from mortal to immortal takes place at His coming, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.





JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes it is, and God has made that task possible for all men.
Glory be to God !!!

Yes, the task of ruling over the sinful desires of our body, God has certainly made possible by His Spirit, dwelling in us; enabling us to walk according to the Spirit rather than the sinful desires of our flesh.