Living without sin ?

[Hopeful]

Actually it’s not.
Man is spirit, soul and physical body.
Our body contains sin that comes from Adam.
Once our spirit is born again, it has a new nature; the nature of God.
Our spirit undergoes the new birth, not our flesh.
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

Sorry you seem to disbelieve 2 Cor 5:17, which says ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW.

Our bodies are change at the resurrection, at His coming.

They will be replaced by heavenly bodies fit for eternity.

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:1-5
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The corruption of 1 Cor 15 isn't sin: it is old age and injury.

Do you understand that “this (present tense) corruptible” refers to our physical body, that remains corruptible until the resurrection when it puts on incorruption?
This change from corruption to incorruption, from mortal to immortal takes place at His coming, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

I agree.
No more fingernail clipping or insulin injections.
No more dental exams or glasses.
Our obedience to God will be amply rewarded.

The disobedient will also receive a reward, but it will be a lake of fire.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, the task of ruling over the sinful desires of our body, God has certainly made possible by His Spirit, dwelling in us; enabling us to walk according to the Spirit rather than the sinful desires of our flesh.

Amen.
But I would say...Yes, the task of ruling over the memories of sinful desires of what is now God's temple, has been made possible by His indwelling Spirit, the new divine nature, and the seed from which we have been reborn.
We have been enabled to walk in the Spirit instead of the now dead "flesh"

 

[JLB]

Sorry you seem to disbelieve 2 Cor 5:17, which says ALL THINGS ARE MADE NEW.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17


I believe I am a new creation. I am a spirit, not a body.

My spirit was reborn by the Spirit, not my physical body.

When we receive a new resurrected body, we will never die anymore.


Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

• nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
  

Can your body die?

If your body can die, then you have not been resurrected yet.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The corruption of 1 Cor 15 isn't sin: it is old age and injury.

Nope, it’s sin. We grow old and die because our contains sin.


For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23



Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.
Romans 5:12


Death comes because of sin.



JLB

 

[JLB]

We have been enabled to walk in the Spirit instead of the now dead "flesh"

Your flesh is not dead, otherwise you would be dead.

When your body dies, you are dead.

Your body will die someday, and is good as dead because of the sin it contains.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17
I believe I am a new creation. I am a spirit, not a body.

Then it isn't "ALL" to you.

My spirit was reborn by the Spirit, not my physical body.
When we receive a new resurrected body, we will never die anymore.

I already can say that.
The temple of the Holy Ghost will pass away, but I won't.

Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

• nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Can your body die?

It isn't "mine".
It is the temple of the Holy Ghost.

If your body can die, then you have not been resurrected yet.

I'm not resurrected yet, but "I" am not my body.
It is just a vessel.
It has no bearing on anything I do.
Thanks be to God for rebirth from Gods seed.

 

[Hopeful]

Nope, it’s sin. We grow old and die because our contains sin.

We disagree.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23

There is the thing, I am not in Adam since I was reborn of God's seed.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.
Romans 5:12
Death comes because of sin.

I agree, but I have already died once, when I was crucified with Christ.
I have, as Rom 8:11 says..."But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
What once died with Jesus has been quickened/reanimated by the Spirit.

 

[Hopeful]

Your flesh is not dead, otherwise you would be dead.

I am dead.
But I have been reborn of God's seed.

When your body dies, you are dead.

Just as I have been writing.

Your body will die someday, and is good as dead because of the sin it contains.

It isn't "MY" body anymore.
It is God's temple since He decided to reside in it.

 

[JLB]

There is the thing, I am not in Adam since I was reborn of God's seed.

You are in Christ, which means you are joined to Christ, being one spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


Your flesh has come from Adam.


Your body will be changed at the resurrection, when the Lord returns.


For now, you have been given His Spirit, to reign in dominion over the sin in your body, if you follow the instructions.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14




What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16


We have been “set free” from being a slave to sin, because we have the Spirit, who enables us to walk in that freedom, and not go back to being in bondage to it.


Nevertheless, our body still contains sin, and we must master its lustful cravings by the power of the Spirit.



Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

• For if you live according to the flesh you will die;

Living our life according to the flesh is living in sin, because the flesh indeed has sin. If it was sinless, then living according to the flesh would be living sinless.


Surely you see that.


Here is the “works” or “actions” that the flesh produces.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Do you believe these are works of righteousness or the works of sin?






JLB

 

[Hopeful]

You are in Christ, which means you are joined to Christ, being one spirit with Him.
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

Amen, and my spirit is one with my body.

Your flesh has come from Adam.

The old "me's" flesh did, but my new flesh, the flesh of the reborn me, is of God's seed.

Your body will be changed at the resurrection, when the Lord returns.

Yes it will.

For now, you have been given His Spirit, to reign in dominion over the sin in your body, if you follow the instructions.

If one is reborn of God's seed there is no sin in my toenails, or hair.
Don't you believe in rebirth?
Do you really think God will recreate a man with the same foibles he has turned away from?

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14

Obey, and live.
Disobey, and die.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16
We have been “set free” from being a slave to sin, because we have the Spirit, who enables us to walk in that freedom, and not go back to being in bondage to it.

I'm glad you finally recognize that truth!!!
Freed men can say they have no sin.

Nevertheless, our body still contains sin, and we must master its lustful cravings by the power of the Spirit.

I guess I spoke too soon.
Your reborn man is still the same old man.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

• For if you live according to the flesh you will die;

Obey, and live forever.
Disobey, and die.
Our choice to make.

Living our life according to the flesh is living in sin, because the flesh indeed has sin. If it was sinless, then living according to the flesh would be living sinless.
Surely you see that.

Only the unregenerated, sinners, walking in darkness, unreborn, children of the devil, commit sin.
God's children do not commit sin.
It is impossible to commit sin.
Grape vines cannot bear figs.
God's seed cannot bear liars and thieves.

Here is the “works” or “actions” that the flesh produces.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
Do you believe these are works of righteousness or the works of sin?

They are the actions of those who hate God.
Men of the fleshly minded.
Haters of God are not reborn of His seed.
Haters of God walk in the flesh and not in the Spirit or in the light.

I am sure glad God made it possible to kill the old man, and be resurrected with Christ as new creatures, reborn of God's seed, and incapable of committing sin.

 

[JLB]

Amen, and my spirit is one with my body.

Which is why you must resist the sinful desires that spring from your physicsl body, by the Spirit. Your sinful flesh is opposed to your spirit, that contains the Holy Spirit.


For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians:5:17


JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Which is why you must resist the sinful desires that spring from your physicsl body, by the Spirit. Your sinful flesh is opposed to your spirit, that contains the Holy Spirit.

The only purveyor of temptation is the devil.
He uses the memories of past sinful desires to lure folks back to corruption.
But the sinful, fleshly oriented mind of the reborn of God's seed has been killed, so the devil cannot get through.
It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Your skin and bones cannot commit sin without the mind's control.
You keep applying some sort of consciousness to skin and bones that is just not there.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians:5:17

Thank God we can walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh...eh?

 

[stovebolts]

Thank God we can walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh...eh?

Yes, thanks be to God!

Walking requires motion. Walking is not like sitting. During our Walk can we grieve the Spirit? I believe we can.

Ephesians 4:30
English Standard Version
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

What do you think it means to grieve the Holy Spirit?

You have said earlier in this thread that you cannot sin.

Can you tell a lie, or do you choose not to lie? I believe you have the ability to lie, but you choose not to.

And how do you feel about sanctification? In other words, at what point is one “born again”. Is it after sanctification and they no longer are able to sin?

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, thanks be to God!
Walking requires motion. Walking is not like sitting. During our Walk can we grieve the Spirit? I believe we can.

Not from in the light, which is God.

Ephesians 4:30
English Standard Version
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
What do you think it means to grieve the Holy Spirit?

I feel it means commit sin.

You have said earlier in this thread that you cannot sin.
Can you tell a lie, or do you choose not to lie? I believe you have the ability to lie, but you choose not to.

I cannot sin and call myself converted, Christian, walking in the light, sanctified, or justified.

And how do you feel about sanctification? In other words, at what point is one “born again”. Is it after sanctification and they no longer are able to sin?

Folks are born again when they are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
Sanctification happens at the moment the blood of Christ is applied to our bodies. (Heb 10:10,14)
That happens while we are crucified with Him.
All the above occurs at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Rom 6:3-7)
Please notice that I included verse 7.

 

[humble soul]

Living without sin is not easy I can tell you but I manage. I'm the benchmark. Follow me.

 

[stovebolts]

All the above occurs at water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Rom 6:3-7)
Please notice that I included verse 7.

I was baptized at age 13, and I felt the gift of the Holy Spirit and I knew all my sins were forgiven. I did my best to not sin, but I eventually back slid. Not only that, but on some things, I did not know they were sin.

I am turning 55 this year and every once in awhile, I’ll realize that I could have made a better decision because that decision wasn’t made in faith.

When I read your last post, I read it as I am not really saved, and Christ isn’t really in my life. It nullifies my baptism as well because I have sinned many times since being baptized.

Just a short side note, while I firmly agree that water baptism normatively plays an active role in our salvation, it really signifies the commitment, or dare I say covenant between Jesus and the one being baptized. It is not just a write, but it’s also a ceremony, much like a wedding. It’s as much about the future of the relationship as it is about the moment.

I view sanctification as Gods transformative work because honestly, God is more in the business of transforming lives as he is in saving a life. Sanctification is Gods ongoing work in our life. It’s about Gods promises to us and our commitment to Him because we are Gods workmanship, and that’s something we can rest in.

As far as grieving the Holy Spirit, I think we agree that it’s when we don’t heed the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and we fall into sin.

I don’t want you to misunderstand me. We are commanded to walk in the Spirit, which can be taken as living a life free of sin. And God does cleanse us. My life is a personal testimony to Gods redemptive work. But I’m not as bold to say I cannot sin. I am human, and in my younger days I did not exhibit the fruits of the Spirit. I was an angry young man and I was prone to fits of rage and violence. I am no longer that angry young man, and I give that credit to Gods transforming work.

You see, the way I see it, God saved me at my baptism, and he’s been saving me every since, and in the end, I know I’ll be saved. I’ve never questioned my salvation with the exception of one time when I was questioned by a rule of Elders in the church of Christ and was told my baptism was of no effect because it was Johns baptism. I am no longer that naive young man and am no longer easily moved by legalistic arguments. I know Gods voice, and I listen to it.

 

[Hopeful]

Living without sin is not easy I can tell you but I manage. I'm the benchmark. Follow me.

Amen.
Any more like you around those parts?

 

[JLB]

It has no bearing on anything I do.
Thanks be to God for rebirth from Gods seed.

Yes, our spirit is reborn by the Spirit, not our body. Our body was born from flesh and contains sin passed on from Adam.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Are you trying to say that our physical body is reborn when we are born again by the Spirit?



Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:20-23

• But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Our flesh must be subdued and brought into subjection to our spirit, that is reborn and empowered by the Holy Spirit.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17


Compare Romans 7:20 with what he teaches in Galatians 5:17

• Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:20
• For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

Sin dwells in our flesh, and will be there until we are resurrected and changed, which occurs at His coming.





JLB

 

[Hopeful]

I I was baptized at age 13, and I felt the gift of the Holy Spirit and I knew all my sins were forgiven. I did my best to not sin, but I eventually back slid. Not only that, but on some things, I did not know they were sin.

Where in the bible did anyone else "feel the Holy Ghost"? Where in the bible did the gift of the Holy Ghost not get accompanied by the gift of tongues and prophesy?
Didn't it trouble you to have an extra-biblical sign?
You may have thought you were given the gift of the Holy Spirit, but scripture makes me doubt it.
stovebolt:
I am turning 55 this year and every once in awhile, I’ll realize that I could have made a better decision because that decision wasn’t made in faith.
Fact is, those (re)born of God's seed cannot commit sin.
Wasn't the sin proof of what is written in 1 John 3:9-10?

When I read your last post, I read it as I am not really saved, and Christ isn’t really in my life. It nullifies my baptism as well because I have sinned many times since being baptized.

Time to get it right this time with a real, true, permanent "turn from" sin.
It wasn't true or permanent the first time...according to your testimony.

Just a short side note, while I firmly agree that water baptism normatively plays an active role in our salvation, it really signifies the commitment, or dare I say covenant between Jesus and the one being baptized. It is not just a rite, but it’s also a ceremony, much like a wedding. It’s as much about the future of the relationship as it is about the moment.

It is our real death with Christ, our burial with Him and our resurrections with Him.
It is the circumcision done without hands, the casting away of the flesh...with the affections and lusts.
It is the beginning of a life walked in the Spirit instead of in the now dead flesh.

I view sanctification as Gods transformative work because honestly, God is more in the business of transforming lives as he is in saving a life. Sanctification is Gods ongoing work in our life. It’s about Gods promises to us and our commitment to Him because we are Gods workmanship, and that’s something we can rest in.

I view it as all the words in its definition...cleansing, atonement, setting apart, blessing, making holy.
It is done with the application of the blood of the perfect Lamb, while we hang on the cross in Christ.

As far as grieving the Holy Spirit, I think we agree that it’s when we don’t heed the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and we fall into sin.

Agreed.
But that sin is a manifestation of whom we are really born of...as per 1 John 3:8-10.

I don’t want you to misunderstand me. We are commanded to walk in the Spirit, which can be taken as living a life free of sin.

Agreed.

And God does cleanse us. My life is a personal testimony to Gods redemptive work. But I’m not as bold to say I cannot sin. I am human, and in my younger days I did not exhibit the fruits of the Spirit. I was an angry young man and I was prone to fits of rage and violence. I am no longer that angry young man, and I give that credit to Gods transforming work.

With faith in God, you can be that bold.
Without it, you will never be able to say it.

You see, the way I see it, God saved me at my baptism, and he’s been saving me every since, and in the end, I know I’ll be saved. I’ve never questioned my salvation with the exception of one time when I was questioned by a rule of Elders in the church of Christ and was told my baptism was of no effect because it was Johns baptism. I am no longer that naive young man and am no longer easily moved by legalistic arguments. I know Gods voice, and I listen to it.

Nobody can say they are saved till they hear their name read from the book of life.
Endure faithfully till the end, and at the judgement of the last day you will know for certain.
Sinning folks will not be saved.
Thanks be to God though, for He is patient and long-suffering.
He still gives folks time to change.
Sinners have not changed.
They serve sin instead of serving God.
No idolaters are going to heaven.

I'ld start with a real, true, permanent repentance from sin, knowing you will never sin again.
The Holy Ghost will not reside in a corrupt temple.

I wish I could write things to sooth your self esteem, but all I can write is how to bring you to where your esteem comes from Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, our spirit is reborn by the Spirit, not our body. Our body was born from flesh and contains sin passed on from Adam.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Are you trying to say that our physical body is reborn when we are born again by the Spirit?

Yes, as I am now a new creature.
All the old has passed away. (2 Cor 5:17)

Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:20-23

• But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Our flesh must be subdued and brought into subjection to our spirit, that is reborn and empowered by the Holy Spirit.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17


Compare Romans 7:20 with what he teaches in Galatians 5:17

• Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. Romans 7:20
• For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

Sin dwells in our flesh, and will be there until we are resurrected and changed, which occurs at His coming.





JLB

I wish you believed differently.