Living without sin ?

[Hopeful]

Yes our spirit is reborn by the Spirit.

No doubt.


Our body on the other hand is not reborn as it takes flesh to give birth to flesh.

If the scripture said that the Spirit gives birth to flesh, then I would definitely be in agreement with you.


But since it doesn’t then no student of the word will ever agree that the Spirit gives birth to a new born again fleshly body.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

again

• if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin

And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:10:13

• For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Please be reasonable and allow these verses to renew your mind.


Our body is not born again by the Spirit.


Our flesh is not born of the Spirit.



JLB

I agree with Paul's take on the situation..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
Jesus' flesh has no sin in it.
It isn't mine anymore.
It is His temple, and it is sanctified for His uses.

 

[Serving Zion]

It was buried, but it was than raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
It was quickened by the Spirit of God. (Rom 8:11)

I think you are speaking metaphorically, or somehow misusing the words, because I can accept what scripture says "the flesh is crucified with Christ" but it is a different thing to say that the body has been buried and then raised again. It's quite important to keep that distinction clear because "I" am more than my body, the "desires of the flesh" include the desires of the ego (which is of the mind, not the body), so therefore as long as we are in the body, sin has an opportunity to use the sensuality of the body to leverage the weaknesses of the flesh - but there are temptations of the flesh that aren't exploitations of the body, for example the desires of pride that cause people to rail against each other and against the truth.

It's mysterious and enlightening to teach about the flesh as being the carnal self beyond the body, but it doesn't help your cause when you say that your body has died and been buried/raised again on the basis of scripture alone. An event like that is something that requires shovels and carpenters and attracts attention of the authorities. But if you say that your baptism constitutes the death of the body and the resurrection of it, do you also remember having understood that you would literally die when you went under the water? Or is that teaching a thing that came later? How does that teaching compare with the teaching of Romans 7:9 where Paul says he was alive once and then died? It is clear that he spent a long time in the state of death before having the life breathed into him when he met the Lord. How does that teaching of new life compare to your teaching of the life spoken of in 1 John 3:9?

 

[JLB]

I agree with Paul's take on the situation..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

Yes, Paul stated that we must crucify our flesh, to keep it under subjection, put to death it’s lustful deeds…


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13

Why do we need to put to death the deeds of the flesh, if it is sinless?

Because our body desires to gratify it’s sinful desires. If we allow our body to do what it want, it will always lead us contrary to what the Spirit within us desires.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

• For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another,

Here is a list of what the flesh desires to do.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Do you believe these manifestations or deeds are righteous or sinful?


Here is what the Spirit will led us to produce:


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25






JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus' flesh has no sin in it.

Amen.

It isn't mine anymore.
It is His temple, and it is sanctified for His uses.

It will be sanctified if you cleanse yourself from being a vessel of dishonor.

• Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master,

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Timothy 2:20-22

• Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1




But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:23







JLB

 

[stovebolts]

I do agree.
But doesn't hearing that we can actually obey God all the time also come from God?

I think this is where our contention lay. I do believe that we can obey, all the time.
what you seem to be missing is that if we are ignorant, we know not what to obey.

Yes, we know a tree by its fruit. But fruit only comes when it’s in season, and there are seasons when the tree bears no fruit. There are also different years when circumstance dictates its yield, and for various reasons.

A good tree bears good fruit, but even a tree needs to mature before it is even able to bear fruit.

When I read your posts, I don’t hear you giving any allowance for maturity. The way you write, and the way you use scripture makes it sound like one is perfected and matured in their faith at baptism, and at that point the can no longer sin.

This idea is not based in reality.

So, yes, we can obey God, all the time but like anything, it may take a few tries and the important thing is we keep trying. It’s called living in the Spirit, or otherwise known as living by faith. The Apostle Peter believed he could do everything Jesus could do, and he got out of the boat, and that was Peter living out his faith. But just as Peter stumbled, we too stumble. And it’s ok to stumble if we learn and grow from it, which we should. And the beauty of it all is this, when we stumble, Jesus doesn’t strike us down with a thunderbolt. No, he reaches out and snatches us from the deep.

So it’s not that I don’t think we can obey all the time. We can. But when our flesh overcomes us, and we stumble, Gods got us and he is there to catch us so when the season is right, we bear fruit.

Scripture says that we are His workmanship and it also say we are His sons and daughters. I have a son and he is in part a reflection of how I and his Mother raised him. He is a reflection of the time my wife and I invested into him as a youth but he is also a reflection of our society, and the public school system etc. He is 22 now and is bearing fruit as he matures; he is walking on the right path. He gets lost once in awhile, but he is learning the way and each season, if he keeps on the right path, he will yield bigger crops.

Nothing magical happens at our baptism that perfects us eternally. We are given the Holy Spirit as a deposit of our salvation much in the same way a bride receives a wedding band signaling his commitment toward her. It is all done in good conscience otherwise is just a set of empty vows.

Jesus was perfected at the crucifix toon according to the writer of Hebrews. In this same way, we are perfected through Christ as our flesh is crucified because we obeyed the commandment to pick up our cross. We all can and should obey, but one who’s faith is weak, or is ignorant will not be obedient right away. This does not mean they are not saved. I believe this passage illustrates it best.

Luke 13 NIV

6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any.(E) 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down!(F) Why should it use up the soil?’

8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it.9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”

 

[JLB]

Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. Galatians 6:1-3

• For if anyone thinks himself to be something,(sinless) when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

Jesus says it this way —


“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17






JLB

 

[Hopeful]

I think you are speaking metaphorically, or somehow misusing the words, because I can accept what scripture says "the flesh is crucified with Christ" but it is a different thing to say that the body has been buried and then raised again. It's quite important to keep that distinction clear because "I" am more than my body, the "desires of the flesh" include the desires of the ego (which is of the mind, not the body), so therefore as long as we are in the body, sin has an opportunity to use the sensuality of the body to leverage the weaknesses of the flesh - but there are temptations of the flesh that aren't exploitations of the body, for example the desires of pride that cause people to rail against each other and against the truth.

I am NOT speaking metaphorically.
Our death with Christ is actual.
It is those who think it is only metaphoric that keep allowing the "flesh" to rule their worlds.
Their "flesh" hasn't really been killed with Jesus's, so they have neither been buried with Him nor raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
Serving Zion:
It's mysterious and enlightening to teach about the flesh as being the carnal self beyond the body, but it doesn't help your cause when you say that your body has died and been buried/raised again on the basis of scripture alone.
Scripture is enough for me to believe every word written is legitimate.
Serving Zion:
An event like that is something that requires shovels and carpenters and attracts attention of the authorities. But if you say that your baptism constitutes the death of the body and the resurrection of it, do you also remember having understood that you would literally die when you went under the water?
Exactly !
Hence the ability to quit serving the "flesh"...as it is dead.
Were it not for the scriptural part about being also "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life", there would be problems with the authorities.
Serving Zion:
How does that teaching compare with the teaching of Romans 7:9 where Paul says he was alive once and then died?
You left out a crucial portion of the verse..."For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."
Paul recounted from his past as one trying to please God by keeping the Law how the Law killed him.
He writes in verse 10 and 11..."And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."
Serving Zion:
It is clear that he spent a long time in the state of death before having the life breathed into him when he met the Lord. How does that teaching of new life compare to your teaching of the life spoken of in 1 John 3:9?
The "long time he spent in that state" was his whole life under, and trying to meet, the Laws requirements for salvation.
He was dead in trespasses and sins the whole time.
Rom 6 lays out the end of that past life and the start of his new life, and Rom 7 is a kind of recount of his past and unto his present life now in Christ, walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
Rom 8 then further distinguishes the past from the present with the differences of walking in the flesh or walking in the Spirit.
As for Paul's Rom 6, 7, and 8's teachings about the death, burial, and resurrection with Christ, it shoe-horns perfectly with John's references to the fact those born of God cannot commit sin anymore, as sin would manifest they are born of a different seed than God's.
The old is left behind and a new life begins.
Thanks be to God !!!

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, Paul stated that we must crucify our flesh, to keep it under subjection, put to death it’s lustful deeds…
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:12-13
Why do we need to put to death the deeds of the flesh, if it is sinless?

You put the cart before the horse.
We have been enabled by God to kill the old man, so the new creature that is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life can be sinless.
We can now Keep the deeds of the flesh dead.

Because our body desires to gratify it’s sinful desires. If we allow our body to do what it want, it will always lead us contrary to what the Spirit within us desires.

With the death of that body of sin comes the end of the sinful desires.
As Gal 5:24 says..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
Our new mind blessedly over-rules what ever temptations of past flesh-lusts the devil throws at us.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

• For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another,

Here is a list of what the flesh desires to do.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
Do you believe these manifestations or deeds are righteous or sinful?

They are sinful if/when acted on.
They are also not part of the life of the man who walks in the Spirit.

Here is what the Spirit will led us to produce:
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25
JLB

Amen to that.
Thank God for allowing us a way to do it...eh?

 

[Hopeful]

Amen.
It will be sanctified if you cleanse yourself from being a vessel of dishonor.

• Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master,

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2 Timothy 2:20-22

• Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:23
JLB

Paul writes in Rom 8:2 of the "cure" for the law of sin in his members..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
Thanks be to God for His gracious mercy and freedom !!!

 

[Hopeful]

I think this is where our contention lay. I do believe that we can obey, all the time.
what you seem to be missing is that if we are ignorant, we know not what to obey.

Yes, we know a tree by its fruit. But fruit only comes when it’s in season, and there are seasons when the tree bears no fruit. There are also different years when circumstance dictates its yield, and for various reasons.

A good tree bears good fruit, but even a tree needs to mature before it is even able to bear fruit.

When I read your posts, I don’t hear you giving any allowance for maturity. The way you write, and the way you use scripture makes it sound like one is perfected and matured in their faith at baptism, and at that point the can no longer sin.

This idea is not based in reality.

So, yes, we can obey God, all the time but like anything, it may take a few tries and the important thing is we keep trying. It’s called living in the Spirit, or otherwise known as living by faith. The Apostle Peter believed he could do everything Jesus could do, and he got out of the boat, and that was Peter living out his faith. But just as Peter stumbled, we too stumble. And it’s ok to stumble if we learn and grow from it, which we should. And the beauty of it all is this, when we stumble, Jesus doesn’t strike us down with a thunderbolt. No, he reaches out and snatches us from the deep.

So it’s not that I don’t think we can obey all the time. We can. But when our flesh overcomes us, and we stumble, Gods got us and he is there to catch us so when the season is right, we bear fruit.

Scripture says that we are His workmanship and it also say we are His sons and daughters. I have a son and he is in part a reflection of how I and his Mother raised him. He is a reflection of the time my wife and I invested into him as a youth but he is also a reflection of our society, and the public school system etc. He is 22 now and is bearing fruit as he matures; he is walking on the right path. He gets lost once in awhile, but he is learning the way and each season, if he keeps on the right path, he will yield bigger crops.

Nothing magical happens at our baptism that perfects us eternally. We are given the Holy Spirit as a deposit of our salvation much in the same way a bride receives a wedding band signaling his commitment toward her. It is all done in good conscience otherwise is just a set of empty vows.

Jesus was perfected at the crucifix toon according to the writer of Hebrews. In this same way, we are perfected through Christ as our flesh is crucified because we obeyed the commandment to pick up our cross. We all can and should obey, but one who’s faith is weak, or is ignorant will not be obedient right away. This does not mean they are not saved. I believe this passage illustrates it best.

Luke 13 NIV

6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any.(E) 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down!(F) Why should it use up the soil?’

8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it.9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”

I sure wish we saw things the same way.

 

[Serving Zion]

I am NOT speaking metaphorically.
Our death with Christ is actual.
It is those who think it is only metaphoric that keep allowing the "flesh" to rule their worlds.
Their "flesh" hasn't really been killed with Jesus's, so they have neither been buried with Him nor raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
Serving Zion:
It's mysterious and enlightening to teach about the flesh as being the carnal self beyond the body, but it doesn't help your cause when you say that your body has died and been buried/raised again on the basis of scripture alone.
Scripture is enough for me to believe every word written is legitimate.
Serving Zion:
An event like that is something that requires shovels and carpenters and attracts attention of the authorities. But if you say that your baptism constitutes the death of the body and the resurrection of it, do you also remember having understood that you would literally die when you went under the water?
Exactly !
Hence the ability to quit serving the "flesh"...as it is dead.
Were it not for the scriptural part about being also "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life", there would be problems with the authorities.
Serving Zion:
How does that teaching compare with the teaching of Romans 7:9 where Paul says he was alive once and then died?
You left out a crucial portion of the verse..."For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."
Paul recounted from his past as one trying to please God by keeping the Law how the Law killed him.
He writes in verse 10 and 11..."And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."
Serving Zion:
It is clear that he spent a long time in the state of death before having the life breathed into him when he met the Lord. How does that teaching of new life compare to your teaching of the life spoken of in 1 John 3:9?
The "long time he spent in that state" was his whole life under, and trying to meet, the Laws requirements for salvation.
He was dead in trespasses and sins the whole time.
Rom 6 lays out the end of that past life and the start of his new life, and Rom 7 is a kind of recount of his past and unto his present life now in Christ, walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
Rom 8 then further distinguishes the past from the present with the differences of walking in the flesh or walking in the Spirit.
As for Paul's Rom 6, 7, and 8's teachings about the death, burial, and resurrection with Christ, it shoe-horns perfectly with John's references to the fact those born of God cannot commit sin anymore, as sin would manifest they are born of a different seed than God's.
The old is left behind and a new life begins.
Thanks be to God !!!

I think we would agree about these things. Can you please read my post again and give some comments on your views of the distinction between the flesh and the body? I see that the desires of the flesh are more than simply desires of the body, and therefore the expression "flesh" is not synonymous with the expression "body".

For example "we are members of one body" but "we have the mind of Christ", yet the mind of Christ exists as it's own self aside from each individual member of the body, yet the parts of the body share the same flesh: "if one part suffers, the whole body suffers/if one part is glorified, the whole body rejoices".

If you had said that your flesh was destroyed, there'd be no problem because that is scriptural truth, but you have said your body was destroyed which naturally leads the reader to wonder how you could be pressing keys on a computer. Even Jesus' body wasn't destroyed (Psalms 22:17a). There is no need to destroy the body in order to crucify the flesh (Matthew 18:8-9).

 

[JLB]

You put the cart before the horse.
We have been enabled by God to kill the old man, so the new creature that is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life can be sinless.
We can now Keep the deeds of the flesh dead.

Brother, God has enabled us to walk in victory over the sin in our flesh, because His Spirit in us, and enables us to live our life as a slave of righteousness rather than a slave to the sinful desires of our body.


This is something we do daily, not a one time thing which is done at water baptism.

With the death of that body of sin comes the end of the sinful desires.

Yes, I agree, when we literally die, we will be free from the body of sin and it’s sinful desires.


The problem is if we literally die then we go to be with the Lord in heaven.


So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8


If your body literally dies, then that’s it; time for judgement.


The water baptism is not where our body literally dies, but is the “likeness” of His death, and the “likeness” of His resurrection.



For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection.
Romans 6:5



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

I think we would agree about these things. Can you please read my post again and give some comments on your views of the distinction between the flesh and the body? I see that the desires of the flesh are more than simply desires of the body, and therefore the expression "flesh" is not synonymous with the expression "body".

OK...
The use of the terms "flesh" or "body" depends on the context of the scrip's.
Sometimes they are synonymous and other times may be quite different.
The term "flesh" primarily(?) indicates the fleshly oriented mind, and less often, the skin and bones.
I try to make that distinction in my writings.
If a particular scripture is on your mind, we can consider that later.

For example "we are members of one body" but "we have the mind of Christ", yet the mind of Christ exists as it's own self aside from each individual member of the body, yet the parts of the body share the same flesh: "if one part suffers, the whole body suffers/if one part is glorified, the whole body rejoices".

Or sooner, (LOL), This scripture's "one body" refers to the church, which is Christ's body on earth now.
We all have His mind and Spirit, so should be thinking alike in every case.
He is using our skin and bones as His temple now.
The analogy of the church as a body magnifies every members dependence on the Mind who "runs the shop".
We are all connected to Him, but also to each other...in the context of a church.

If you had said that your flesh was destroyed, there'd be no problem because that is scriptural truth, but you have said your body was destroyed which naturally leads the reader to wonder how you could be pressing keys on a computer. Even Jesus' body wasn't destroyed (Psalms 22:17a), there is no need to destroy the body in order to crucify the flesh (Matthew 18:8-9).

I cite Paul from Rom 7:24..."O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
He's writing of his "vessel".
But he has already told us how he was delivered from that "vessel" in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
That "vessel"-body was destroyed: it was crucified with Christ.
Col 2:11 makes an interesting point too..."In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:"
This verse acknowledges the end of the "vessel", flesh, body, whole package; just as circumcision acknowledges an end of any likening to the heathen, unbelieving, world.
The "flesh" has been destroyed...in this case both skin and mind.

There was nothing worth saving about the old man, body, skin and bones, vessel.

Thankfully, God gave us a new one, quickened by His Spirit, and gendered from His seed.
It is written..."But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

I praise Him for His gracious love.

 

[Hopeful]

Brother, God has enabled us to walk in victory of the sin in our flesh,...

What do you mean by "victory of the sin"?
I hope you meant victory over sin.

because His Spirit in us, enables us to live our life as a slave of righteousness rather than a slave to the sinful, desires of our body.

Thanks be to God...eh?

This is something we do daily, not a one time thing which is done at water baptism.

Amen.
If the only day one is holy is their baptismal day, their repentance from sin was untrue.

Yes, I agree, when we literally die, we will be free from the body and it’s sinful desires.
The problem is if we literally die we go to be with the Lord in heaven.

It will be too late by then.
We can die with Christ now at our crucifixion with Him.

So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8

Amen to that.

If your body literally dies, then that’s it; time for judgement.

You seem to have forgotten that we are raised with Christ to walk in newness of life after our death with Jesus.
It is written..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: " (Rom 6:5)

The water baptism is not where our body literally dies, but is the “likeness” of His death, and the “likeness” of His resurrection.

Your beliefs, and mine, are illustrated by the way we walk.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection.
Rom 6:5
JLB

Amen, just like His death and just like His resurrection.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Serving Zion]

I praise Him for His gracious love.

Amen to that.

that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin

I would like you to look at the word
katargēthē
καταργηθῇ in Romans 6:6, which your translation has regarded as "destruction". In fact it means to "annul" - to "bring to nothing", which means to say that the body has no power, or that we have no regard for the body. It is saying something completely different from katargethe when you say the body has been destroyed. Could you tell us what translation you are reading?

 

[Hopeful]

Amen to that.

I would like you to look at the word
katargēthē
καταργηθῇ in Romans 6:6, which your translation has regarded as "destruction". In fact it means to "annul" - to "bring to nothing", which means to say that the body has no power, or that we have no regard for the body. It is saying something completely different from katargethe when you say the body has been destroyed. Could you tell us what translation you are reading?

I use the KJV of the bible.
Not trying to be funny, but can you tell me how much something that is "brought to nothing" weighs?
I see no difference between "destroyed" and "brought to nothing".

 

[Serving Zion]

I use the KJV of the bible.
Not trying to be funny, but can you tell me how much something that is "brought to nothing" weighs?
I see no difference between "destroyed" and "brought to nothing".

It has no weight if it is brought to nothing. Therefore what weight do the needs of the body have? This is what Paul is saying.

 

[Serving Zion]

I see no difference between "destroyed" and "brought to nothing".

Sorry I missed that. You should be looking for the differences because they are different words. Specifically look at the word annulled:

Definition of ANNULLED

to declare or make legally invalid or void; to reduce to nothing : obliterate; to make ineffective or inoperative : neutralize… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of DESTROYED

to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of; also : to ruin as if by tearing to shreds; to put out of existence : kill; neutralize… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Eg: Matthew 7:13
apōleian
ἀπώλειαν ,
destruction

Matthew 7:13 Interlinear: Go ye in through the strait gate, because wide is the gate, and broad the way that is leading to the destruction, and many are those going in through it;

biblehub.com

Romans 6:6
katargēthē
καταργηθῇ
might be annulled

Romans 6:6 Interlinear: this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

biblehub.com

"Null" means to have no value, therefore "annulled" speaks of the value given to the body's desires (consider James 1:13-15 in this context).

"Structure" means to have an orderly composition, therefore "destruction" means to undo the orderly construction of a thing. The destruction of the body means to take away the functionality of the body.

 

[JLB]

What do you mean by "victory of the sin"?
I hope you meant victory over sin.

Yes and as I reread it I corrected it. You must have seen it before I made the correction.

 

[JLB]

Amen.
If the only day one is holy is their baptismal day, their repentance from sin was untrue.

It seems you may not fully understand what is required in the Gospel, to be saved.

Repenting is required to obey the Gospel, not repenting from sin.

Repent means to turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.

This by default means we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord, or master.

The way we repent, obey the Gospel, is to confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord.

By this we are saved; born again, regenerated.

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


Baptism in water is for believers, people who are saved.

Believing the message of the kingdom of God, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is how we are saved.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Then comes the baptism is water and the baptism with the Holy Spirit, in which we are empowered to live our life free from sin.


The message of the Gospel is repent, not repent of your sins. Now one can repent of their sins until they are born again and filled with the Spirit.


Of course we are to turn away from our sins.


Water baptism is about identifying with the (likeness) of the death and (likeness) of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus as a public confession of faith.


“Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:32



JLB