Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[glorydaz]

There is a dogmatic refusal in many believers, due to false teaching, to see the 2 levels of biblical truth. There is a heaven and there is an earth. These are 2 levels. There are two main commandments as there are two directions that make up a cross. There is the vertical and the horizontal. There is the common laws we can obey on our own, and the impossible laws that can only be accomplished by the Holy Spirit THROUGH us.

level 1: giving a disciple a cup of cold water. (This does not require apostolic power.) It requires a consideration of others as we ourselves would like to be treated.

level 2: Walking as Jesus walked above sin. This reqiuires the righteousness from above. This can only be done through Christ indwelling a surrendered vessel. Apostolic power!

Any question? ;)

You do realize that it isn't man's idea of righteousness that matters, don't you?
When God looks at the righteousness of man, it's nothing more than filthy rags.
No matter how good we think we are, we can only fall short of His Glory.

There would have been no reason for the cross if it was possible for man to obtain access to God...who can abide no unrighteousness whatever. The good Samaritan could have very well have done a good deed, but he undoubtedly went home and beat his wife or bragged about his good deed to his friends. Even one single sin separates us from God. So we can do all the good deeds in the world and still fall short of the Glory of God. We can be justified before men and glory, but it's before God that we will stand. God looks at our hearts...

God's way are so far above ours we can not claim to even come close to His righteousness.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

 

[jasoncran]

sometime i wonder where i would be if was still bi. mad then as it drove me nuts.

 

[Elf]

You do realize that it isn't man's idea of righteousness that matters, don't you?
When God looks at the righteousness of man, it's nothing more than filthy rags.
No matter how good we think we are, we can only fall short of His Glory.

Unfortunately I don't think he see's that clearly.

 

[glorydaz]

Elf...Are you making up the rules as well as arguing a particular point? You do not answer my questions. I am trying to enlighten your mind to a greater possibility. Rather than judge me and pigeon-hole me....try seeing the logic. You won't go to hell for trying on a different understanding. Compare rather to the bible...the whole bible.

It's enlightenment and a "greater possibility" to claim man's "righteousness" has a part in our salvation or in keeping us saved?

We have the whole Bible telling us Jesus is the way, the truth and the Life.
We have many scriptures that have been given that prove it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, He saves us. Any enlightment must show forth the light of the Gospel message, not man's theories. It's the power of God, the power of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit , and the power of the Word of God that's being assualted when man claims any of the glory for his salvation.

 

[jasoncran]

of course not.

 

[glorydaz]

By eliminating the human element we become spectators and cheerleaders for Jesus!!!! He does it for us???? We pay Him praises (lip-service) and He does the performing! :P

Best not to get involved in spiritual things, eh!?? ;)

Now that's just plain silly. I know it's hard to let go...man's pride is ever at the helm.
Man must have the glory. It's an age-old problem, and one that rears it's ugly head even within the Church. How can we enter into His rest when we think we must perform in order to draw near to God?
And Jesus isn't "performing"...He is working.

You want to talk spiritual things? The only way to draw near to God is to humble yourself in His sight. It's time to stop patting ourselves on the back and look unto Jesus Christ. You may say it's "lip-service", but then you would be putting a lie to what Christ taught. It's only when we "yield" our SELVES that we can truly worship Him.

 

[glorydaz]

eternal security
but with this if one is saved one will want to change and produce fruits and though one fails the lord forsake you, he will chastise thee, and will do so get you change


hmm i have a few other questions, but i will ask them when i can think of how to word them

not so much false, just error.
at least with the way i was taught.
same can be said of the calvinstic doctrine or the charismatic one

There are many beliefs from the doctrines of man that must be tested and verified by the Word.

God has not given us the spirit of fear. And what greater fear can man have than that he can lose his salvation once he has come to know the Lord? God has given us a great love for Him, one that cannot be removed by sin else none would ever be saved.

Romans 8:15 - For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

2 Timothy 1:7 - For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

The adversary stands accusing, and we must choose to listen to him. If we resist, he will flee.
We must stand firmly on the promises lest the enemy creep in to rob us of our assurance and rest.

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[glorydaz]

from my expercience.
not hypothetical

i went into bisexual lifestyle a few weeks after honestly repenting.
when i went to chruch i would try to ignore that the lord was saying you are in sin, and need to repent. the longer i did this the easier it was to be with my man. :crazy

was i saved then? i'm not sure others say yes.

i am no longer bi. i repented a month later or thereabouts

i can say that as i refuse to repent the more and more i wanted to get away from God and stay in my sin, i wanted to be bi and beleived that i was born that way and thought that christian ought not to judge me and tell me that i cant be bi as the lord wanted me to be happy.

Man has a rebellious spirit...when one is first saved, the enemy uses that to draw us away from God.

It's different with each of us. I had been saved many years when perfection became my stumbling block. The more I knew I should be perfect...never even raising my voice in anger, the more I was overcome with guilt. It ended up dragging me down into the 'sea of despond'. lol. When I finally let go of the cross I'd laid upon my own shoulders, I was freed from the guilt and went on in my walk with the Lord. We're tried by many fires, and they all lead to our being refined and made fit for His service. Our Lord is not a hard task-master. He gives us all we need just when we need it and not before.

 

[jasoncran]

hmm, google this chruch as they preach that salvation can be lost, yet is isnt the work based type conditional salvation. more like rather that you can choose to walk away from the Lord. but that is a very slow and hardening of the heart.

http://www.wofnbc.com

 

[glorydaz]

You do realize that it isn't man's idea of righteousness that matters, don't you?
When God looks at the righteousness of man, it's nothing more than filthy rags.
No matter how good we think we are, we can only fall short of His Glory.

Unfortunately I don't think he see's that clearly.

Jesus is our Sabbath rest. It's only when we cease our "work" that He can begin His. :yes

 

[glorydaz]

hmm, google this chruch as they preach that salvation can be lost, yet is isnt the work based type conditional salvation. more like rather that you can choose to walk away from the Lord. but that is a very slow and hardening of the heart.

http://www.wofnbc.com

I don't even have to google it, brother, to know what they say.
It's all based on the same premise...God is unable to keep those who are His.

How could someone slowly drift away until his heart is hardened?
It could only be because his heart has never been circumcised by God.

These are the same people who attempt to follow God and obey the commandments in their own strength. They trust in themselves instead of the Lord. After awhile, they flat get tired of trying. They drift away because man is not able to keep himself. If they were really saved, the Lord would prepare their heart to survive testings and trials. Instead of a heart of stone, we're given a heart of flesh. It cannot be hardened to the point of unbelief.

There has been a time or two in the past 40 years that I've began to drift...even turning my back on the Lord for periods of time. What happened? I was beset with problems, unhappy, nothing went right. I knew Jesus was right there waiting for me to turn to Him. When I was once again brought to my knews (for He is faithful even when we are not), He filled me with His peace and love. I eventually learned it wasn't worth it. It's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. It happens to the best of us....it's called a "walk" for a reason.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

But we know, from the Word that He will never leave nor forsake us.
All things work together for our good, and the trials are how we grow and gain patience.

 

[destiny]

It is best to seek God and read the bible for oneself and then look at the whole context of New Testament scripture from Acts to Revelations and see what God is really saying. Pray beforehand that the Lord will teach you through His Holy Spirit.

It is not good at all to allow someone to explain scripture away for the sake of building a doctrine that agrees with the opinions that are taught by man. I would imagine that there are many more on this forum and possibly many other christian forums who believe in OSAS than not, because so many of the mainstream churches make this doctrine their mantra and pretty much a mandate. I know because they tried unfruitfully to drill the doctrine of OSAS into my son a few years ago at vacation bible school, at a local baptist church. They tried to work him over pretty good and even held him in when they recessed, but to no avail... my son had enough bible in him to know better.

I am not trying to insult anyone here at all, It's just that your doctrine is a license to sin. My son said people were filling their mouths with tobacco and firing up cigarettes when that church would let out and many of those youth would binge drink on the week-ends.This is fallen human nature!! Why not, when they feel they can pretty much do what they want and still be saved, especially since they think they can't possibly fall away because they followed a church formula and were pronounced, "saved" by the pastor.

If you are going to teach the doctrine of OSAS then you better be stressing what it truly means to be born again, walking in holiness, and separated from the world, or else you will face God for causing souls to go to Hell.
As for me, I will continue to personally seek Jesus each and every day and live in Obedience to God, knowing full well that if I stop I will begin to fall away from Him and become like the world again. I cannot fathom someone who calls themself a Christian, not knowing something so basic and crucial.

 

[jasoncran]

destiny might i suggest you listen to adrian rogers of lwf, and glorydaz.

that church you assume to be false is one in which my bro gave his heart to jesus.

that church unlike some of those osas baptist church of the 60's who were all white. welcomed the drug addicts and the hippies and the men of color. If you had visited that site you might have learned that. miracles did occur thier as i know a some former hippies who gave their life to christ and won many for him. one of them was a heroine and coke addict and was homeless.

www.lwf.org is a good site for the defense of the eternal security doctrine. adrian rogers doesnt preach that its a license to sin at all. you do all the sining you want to upon salvation, which should be zero as the desire to sin is removed, you sin out of weakness not simply because you want to and dont care if you do. if you feel the desire to sin and no conviction over it then you arent saved!

 

[duval]

Thank you Destiny for your post, such is the logical end of the doctrine .

God bless, duval

 

[destiny]

I added this to the end of my post as you were posting, Jason..

As for me, I will continue to personally seek Jesus each and every day and live in Obedience to God, knowing full well that if I stop I will begin to fall away from Him and become like the world again. I cannot fathom someone who calls themself a Christian, not knowing something so basic and crucial.

The error of OSAS is all I am addressing.

 

[jasoncran]

that is why some get confused about that eternal security issue, if you know that someone is willingly sinning like that and truly doesnt care, ask them to repent. they may not be saved.

see my earlier statement on my salvation then venture in to bisexuality. that drove me nuts. you cant stay in sin and expect the Lord not to say something and or convict you!If you dont hear that or feel that then your salvation aint real.

most of my post was towards glorydaz comment on my old church.

 

[destiny]

Thank you Destiny for your post, such is the logical end of the doctrine .

God bless, duval

I hate the way manmade doctrines divide the body of Christ and replace Gods terms with mans terms. In the end HIS terms will prevail... we can all count on that.

 

[AVBunyan]

1.It is not good at all to allow someone to explain scripture away for the sake of building a doctrine that agrees with the opinions that are taught by man. I would imagine that there are many more on this forum and possibly many other christian forums who believe in OSAS than not, because so many of the mainstream churches make this doctrine their mantra and pretty much a mandate.

2. It's just that your doctrine is a license to sin.

1. Again - the greatest preachers, missionaries, writers, evangelists, and pastors in past history held to the doctrine of eternal security. Look at the fake faith healers, fake TV preachers, charismatic gifters, liberal churches of today - they believe you can lose it - what a crowd!

2. Wrong - Look at the lives of today's modern fake faith healers, fake TV preachers, charismatic gifters, liberal churches of today - they believe you can lose it - what a crowd! Compare the lives of grace believers with the lose-its and you will find out who lives closer to the book.

Grace teaches one how to live - you folks live by the law.

I do personal work - I run into your crowd out there and they live looser than grace believers.

 

[destiny]

that is why some get confused about that eternal security issue, if you know that someone is willingly sinning like that and truly doesnt care, ask them to repent. they may not be saved.

see my earlier statement on my salvation then venture in to bisexuality. that drove me nuts. you cant stay in sin and expect the Lord not to say something and or convict you!If you dont hear that or feel that then your salvation aint real.

most of my post was towards glorydaz comment on my old church.

The issue is that those who espouse eternal security don't think they can fall away, so I doubt they would recognize it if they did since they would believe all is well and covered. At the end of my post I explained how that can happen.

 

[duval]

Hi Bunyan

Its not a question of how many believe this and that or how many and who do not. The question is: What does the Blble teach!
duval