Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[glorydaz]

NT holiness is built on OT righteousness. What has been replaced is the law as a means to holiness. We receive the grace of God now to do this. This is only accomplished in Christ. God does not fill the unrighteous with His holiness. We must hold the truth IN righteousness. Those who advocate unrighteousness do not believe that repentance from dead works is a requirement to receiving the gift of The Holy Spirit.

How can the Holy Spirit abide in a vessel of unrighteousness? Sin separates us from God. Repentance is a work of righteousness. So we must display righteousness in order to be filled with HIS righteousness.

NT holiness is like an upper room that is built upon the main floor of OT righteousness. Unless OUR righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, we will be also rejected. It is unfortunate that the modern gospel needs to destroy righteousness in order to justify itself. Let the wise consider this!

I'm surprised you would think "our righteousness" could exceed that of the Pharisees. The point being, all men sin and come short of the glory of God. It is only the imputed righteousness of Christ that is given us when we are born again of the Spirit that enables us to be saved. We cannot display righteousness until we're filled with His righteousness. Only then can the fruit of the Holy Spirit be shown forth in our lives. It is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us. A consequence of that will be the fruit.

We re His workmanship....it's foreordained that we should walk in good works. Those are His works through us (fruit of the Spirit).

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Don't confuse those who merely "profess" to know God with the believer who will show forth the fruit of the Spirit.

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

He is purifying a people who will desire to please Him. Again, that does not mean we are yet perfect, in ourselves. It's Christ's righteousness in us...for all men fall short.

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Adullam]

People normally see righteousness 2-dimentionally. Jesus is righteous...we are not. The Samaritan in the parable was evil...because Christ was not in him. This is what many are taught.

But there are two levels of righteousness....not just one. There are the righteous in the world and the unrighteous. There is a common righteousness due to the fact that all men are created by God and we have a conscience to that effect.

(Those who don't agree should stop here and reread the bible with this in mind. Most Christians can't get past even this basic building block))

There is also a righteousness that only God has...this is holiness. The type of righteousness that emanates from God's holiness is that which Jesus Christ walked in. A constant supernatural inspiration and character.

Now that character must be forged in us through a prolong period of abiding in Him...in order to learn of Him. What has been imputed must now be imparted and grown into.

(Now I probably have lost others here)

We are called to be BOTH righteous AND holy. We are to love our neighbour AND God. There are 2 main commandments NOT just one.

 

[Elf]

There is a reason why there seems to be as many verses that seem to promote OSAS as condemn it. This is because we have 2 different natures (as Christians). One needs to stay down, the other needs to be uplifted and edified. We must let the truth hit us in the right places....not dragging down one verse to seemingly support another.

Those who promote a blanket OSAS are not being honest about the content of the bible.

There is also easybelievism, legalism, and on and on.

 

[jasoncran]

so then that thief on the cross isnt saved as well he didnt get the christ in him for he and christ died before him by a few days and hadnt arose yet. yet he was saved. how can the thief get closer to christ in few hrs as unto perfection?

ask questions that would be dificult physically to ask? hard to breathe on the cross, and when the legs are broken you die quickly.

 

[Elf]

How can the Holy Spirit abide in a vessel of unrighteousness?

A Christians righteousness is Christ.

So a man sins the same way as before but he is now justified????

No, I never said a man is justified when he sins.
I said a Christians righteousness is Christ. And in Christ we (Christians) are justified.

 

[Adullam]

NT holiness is built on OT righteousness. What has been replaced is the law as a means to holiness. We receive the grace of God now to do this. This is only accomplished in Christ. God does not fill the unrighteous with His holiness. We must hold the truth IN righteousness. Those who advocate unrighteousness do not believe that repentance from dead works is a requirement to receiving the gift of The Holy Spirit.

How can the Holy Spirit abide in a vessel of unrighteousness? Sin separates us from God. Repentance is a work of righteousness. So we must display righteousness in order to be filled with HIS righteousness.

NT holiness is like an upper room that is built upon the main floor of OT righteousness. Unless OUR righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees, we will be also rejected. It is unfortunate that the modern gospel needs to destroy righteousness in order to justify itself. Let the wise consider this!

I'm surprised you would think "our righteousness" could exceed that of the Pharisees. The point being, all men sin and come short of the glory of God. It is only the imputed righteousness of Christ that is given us when we are born again of the Spirit that enables us to be saved. We cannot display righteousness until we're filled with His righteousness. Only then can the fruit of the Holy Spirit be shown forth in our lives. It is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us. A consequence of that will be the fruit.

We re His workmanship....it's foreordained that we should walk in good works. Those are His works through us (fruit of the Spirit).

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Don't confuse those who merely "profess" to know God with the believer who will show forth the fruit of the Spirit.
[quote="Titus 1:16":j74hpz26]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

He is purifying a people who will desire to please Him. Again, that does not mean we are yet perfect, in ourselves. It's Christ's righteousness in us...for all men fall short.

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[/quote:j74hpz26]


We can only show His righteousness when we are filled with HIS righteousness. But anyone can do a righteous act. Perhaps North Americans are jaded by the inhospitable people that live here. Most people in 3rd world countries would feed, clothe and care for Jesus better than we. They would give the shirt off their back. But WE rich people look down on them because thay are unchurched. We presume to teach them about righteousness. What is wrong with this picture?

 

[Elf]

Are you denying that repentance is a good work?

True repentance is a gift of God. How could it not be good?

 

[Adullam]

How can the Holy Spirit abide in a vessel of unrighteousness?

A Christians righteousness is Christ.

So a man sins the same way as before but he is now justified????

No, I never said a man is justified when he sins.
I said a Christians righteousness is Christ. And in Christ we (Christians) are justified.

You leave sin out of the equation...any reason for this?

The bible says that we can no longer sin because we are slaves to righteousness.

What you are saying is that we are no longer responsible for our own sinning. Ceasing from sin is not necessary. The wages of sin is NOT death. HMMM...sounds like a familiar teaching from the garden of Eden????

 

[Elf]

You are assuming that man cannot anything right on any level. So Jesus was actually condemning the "good" Samaritan because He wasn't Christian.

Nope! All I am suggesting is you have taken that out of context and used it to support your shaky anti OSAS case.

 

[Adullam]

Are you denying that repentance is a good work?

True repentance is a gift of God. How could it not be good?

So the Ninevites are all saved???

 

[Adullam]

You are assuming that man cannot anything right on any level. So Jesus was actually condemning the "good" Samaritan because He wasn't Christian.

Nope! All I am suggesting is you have taken that out of context and used it to support your shaky anti OSAS case.

Was Jesus teaching divine righteousness or human righteousness when He taught about the "good" Samaritan? Is this something we can do on our own, or do we need apostolic power to pick up a man lying on the ground?

 

[Elf]

whose righteousness needs to exceed the pharisees. ours or his(christs). paul claimed i do that which i dont want to do and dont do what i should do.

read the next verses and then comment.

if we could do it then why the cross?
if its on us for salvation then what.
i never was taught that version of disbelief in eternal security. we accepted grace and mercy. and knew that only christ could do it. it was that we Could walk away and not repent and by that we could loose salvation. we choose not to serve, but if we repent we were forgiven and cleansed, that wasnt an easy step to get that hard hearted but rather a gradual process.

Right, when Jesus is teaching the people we have to consider the surroundings and the time. ie. these people viewed the Pharisees righteousness as something which cannot be achieved, Jesus meant something else, they just couldn't see it.
From their perspective, no one could.

But a Christians righteousness is Christ, which surpasses the righteousness of the Pharisees.

 

[watchman F]

destiny wrote:Oh dear.. I could quote scripture after scripture of Gods warnings to HIS PEOPLE and you will just explain it away as if it means something else for someone else and not for our admonition. I know only God can break away those denominational man made doctrines, so I will move on now

Sadly this is true destiny because they do not care about finding truth but holding to their false, fleshly, doctrine.

I'm getting tired of being accused of following a false, fleshly doctrine.

Then stop supporting it and turn to the truth of scripture.

 

[glorydaz]

if one is saved then one will want to grow in christ as one must. he draws you, that new nature(spirit) wants the lord's desires.

i would thought to add that.

can one be truly saved and do these and still remain saved

murder in cold blood
deny the lord so much so that you become a athiest
be a homosexual or bisexuality(this is what i did after my sinners prayer) a few weeks later
have a reprobate spirit, see above.

commit pedophilia, and or other things.

some churches say yes, but i'm like How??????????? these all are forgiveable, but with the athiest thing it depends on how much you really knew the lord. i dont think that someone who has really tasted the lord will go that way. but for arguments sake i ask that.

It's a question of whether the Lord is ABLE to keep us or not.

We know that when we're born again, we will still sin, but those who have Christ in them will be kept from grevious sin....we are new creatures, and God will not ALLOW us to be tempted more than we are able to bear. When we fail, He is faithful to chasten us. When we stray, He is faithful to lead us back. We can rely on the good shephard to lead and to guide us.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[Elf]

People normally see righteousness 2-dimentionally. Jesus is righteous...we are not. The Samaritan in the parable was evil...because Christ was not in him. This is what many are taught.

But there are two levels of righteousness....not just one. There are the righteous in the world and the unrighteous. There is a common righteousness due to the fact that all men are created by God and we have a conscience to that effect.

(Those who don't agree should stop here and reread the bible with this in mind. Most Christians can't get past even this basic building block))

There is also a righteousness that only God has...this is holiness. The type of righteousness that emanates from God's holiness is that which Jesus Christ walked in. A constant supernatural inspiration and character.

Now that character must be forged in us through a prolong period of abiding in Him...in order to learn of Him. What has been imputed must now be imparted and grown into.

(Now I probably have lost others here)

We are called to be BOTH righteous AND holy. We are to love our neighbour AND God. There are 2 main commandments NOT just one.

You must not want to be confused any longer?

 

[glorydaz]

[quote="watchman F":19g3w0is] Sadly this is true destiny because they do not care about finding truth but holding to their false, fleshly, doctrine.

I'm getting tired of being accused of following a false, fleshly doctrine.

Then stop supporting it and turn to the truth of scripture.[/quote:19g3w0is]

I do support the truth of scripture. So stop accusing me.
You'd do well to trust in the power of God rather than your own ability to save or keep yourself. :yes

 

[Elf]

How can the Holy Spirit abide in a vessel of unrighteousness?

A Christians righteousness is Christ.

So a man sins the same way as before but he is now justified????

No, I never said a man is justified when he sins.
I said a Christians righteousness is Christ. And in Christ we (Christians) are justified.

You leave sin out of the equation...any reason for this?

The bible says that we can no longer sin because we are slaves to righteousness.

What you are saying is that we are no longer responsible for our own sinning. Ceasing from sin is not necessary. The wages of sin is NOT death. HMMM...sounds like a familiar teaching from the garden of Eden????

Your the one who added sin into the equation, I am keeping to the point of the question. Would you like to talk about sin now?

 

[Elf]

Are you denying that repentance is a good work?

True repentance is a gift of God. How could it not be good?

So the Ninevites are all saved???

That does not help with your case, stick to the point. Reread: True repentance is a gift of God. How could it not be good?

But keep throwing this stuff out there, it is helping me identify exactly where you are.

 

[watchman F]

I'm getting tired of being accused of following a false, fleshly doctrine.

Then stop supporting it and turn to the truth of scripture.

I do support the truth of scripture. So stop accusing me.

O' My fault, I thought you said you believed in the false OSAS doctrine?

You'd do well to trust in the power of God rather than your own ability to save or keep yourself. :yes

I have already told you my confidence is in Christ, not myself. I do not know why you would repeat this strawman argument over and over.

 

[Adullam]

There is a dogmatic refusal in many believers, due to false teaching, to see the 2 levels of biblical truth. There is a heaven and there is an earth. These are 2 levels. There are two main commandments as there are two directions that make up a cross. There is the vertical and the horizontal. There is the common laws we can obey on our own, and the impossible laws that can only be accomplished by the Holy Spirit THROUGH us.

level 1: giving a disciple a cup of cold water. (This does not require apostolic power.) It requires a consideration of others as we ourselves would like to be treated.

level 2: Walking as Jesus walked above sin. This reqiuires the righteousness from above. This can only be done through Christ indwelling a surrendered vessel. Apostolic power!

Any question? ;)