Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[jasoncran]

habit, define easy believinim
the sinners prayer is simply any one that asks the lord to forgive and you enter your heart.

my prayer was simply this

Lord i dont want sin anymore, i have tried to fix my life, i cant, i dont know where to turn and i cant find joy or meaning, i know drugs arent that way, you can give me the peace that i need. please come into my life. amen

thats not the exact words but close. i never used drugs but was at wit ends and was facing jail time for bad check writing.

i could hear the lord asking me each day at 7 am for a week before that prayer this"when are your going to be one of mine and repent? "my response i cant ,i'm not ready,
his response was i can deliver you or something close.

finally i did.

 

[Elf]

Hi Jasoscran

You have a mind and especially a soul too precious to be lost th osas. My eyes grow dim and cannot stay long on the internet at a time, but you seem interested in Heb.6. May I suggest you study this in the context it was given, to Jews who became Christians and were contemplating a return to Judaism.

God bless, duval

Jason, it would be good to do a study on Hebrews 6, there is a lot for everyone to learn there and it also proves perseverance of the saints. It is truly a rewarding study.
Have you studied into that yet? Perhaps we could start a new thread?

 

[duval]

You are correct that we are called by God through the Gospel. That is rerrevocable.

 

[jasoncran]

we can, but not today hmm i will tie in pastor adrain rogers

he preached that.

verse 34 i think states that one cant be saved if we sin willingly for what sacrifice is there for that!

 

[Elf]

habit, define easy believinim
the sinners prayer is simply any one that asks the lord to forgive and you enter your heart.

Jason, no one saves themselves by a prayer, we are by the Holy Spirit regenerating us after hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. If and when we say a prayer like this it is because of what the Holy Spirit has already done in us.
It does not make Him do His regenerating work.

The easy believeism part is, many who come forward and pray the sinners prayer believe they are saved because of it, they are told they are. But are they really? Though I am sure some are already.

The invitation service is a cheap Christianity, not taught in scripture. There is no magic word one can use to be saved.

 

[Elf]

You are correct that we are called by God through the Gospel. That is rerrevocable.

Ok, your turn. Show me where you tie these two together and cancel out perseverance of the saints. But please, present scripture support.
As a matter of fact, present one or two, we will treat it, and continue throughout scripture. Scripture supports scripture so the truth will not run out of support.

The ball is in your court.

 

[Elf]

we can, but not today hmm i will tie in pastor adrain rogers

he preached that.

verse 34 i think states that one cant be saved if we sin willingly for what sacrifice is there for that!

Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Yes, after receiving the knowledge of the truth, or, after being enlightened. There no longer remains a sacrifice. There is nothing else, reject Christ, no sacrifice for sins.

 

[jasoncran]

true but we have to confess do you we not, see romans 10

the prayer in itself doesnt get me saved but the lord who answered it


i know that, i'm not a shallow christian
i do have a call but i havent told when to act on that.

in fact odd, no one has told me that i should preach in a while. hmm odd i havent heard that in a while i was told that by the h.s.
not that i'm tooting my horn.

all those verses i quote or paraphrase are by memory

that applies to the saved or the lost, the entire enternal security doctrine hangs on that

 

[duval]

Elf, define "gifts" in Rom.11:29.-------------back to you

 

[Elf]

true but we have to confess do you we not, see romans 10

We have to confess our sins absolutely! 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

the prayer in itself doesnt get me saved but the lord who answered it

I agree. But we are not saved by reason of saying that prayer, other wise we are saved when we feel like being saved.

i know that, i'm not a shallow christian

I know that also.

i do have a call but i havent told when to act on that.

in fact odd, no one has told me that i should preach in a while. hmm odd i havent heard that in a while i was told that by the h.s.
not that i'm tooting my horn.

When the timing is right, that's in God's wisdom.

all those verses i quote or paraphrase are by memory

You have a good memory I can see that.

that applies to the saved or the lost, the entire enternal security doctrine hangs on that

I dont understand what you mean here.

 

[jasoncran]

the bad thing about this debate is that so much of the nt is hinged on it and it goes on and on.

all manner of theology is based on this and what is the gifts and suchlike

not that i mind too much, i entails many wabbit trails. i dont feel like hunting for wabbits mr. director. :biglaugh

hebrews 10:26 can support either if taken in or out of context. it applies to the lost in proper exegesis, but to the non oasis, tis applied to the saint. if the latter then i'm lost forever

and so are those that cant seem to shake any habitual sin!

 

[Elf]

Elf, define "gifts" in Rom.11:29.-------------back to you

You don't play fair do you? But, I will do my best to define gifts. Then back to you and please present your scriptures before hitting it back?

Romans 11:29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
God never recalls His grace which by His absolute decree He will communicate to some person to call them to Himself. This election and calling of some from the world, is irrevocable. Irrevocable meaning God never goes back on His word. So, once He calls one, they are saved forever, they can never be anything but saved.
The elect are called into the covenant, and Christ is the contractor on man's side. Christ is the Mediator between an offended just God and offending man guilty before Him.
"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12.

This covenant of grace could not be made with men, so it was made with Christ. Jesus gave himself a ransom.

The promises was made to Christ, Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
Not to men.

Jesus Christ, standing as the second Adam, head of the elect, accepted the gift of certain persons given to Him by the Father, John 17:6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

So, to make it short. Christ died in the place of the elect. He took on their sins, past present and future. His elect are covered in His blood. His righteousness has been imputed unto us, He appeased the wrath of God and reconciled us to God. When God looks a the elect He see's Christ's righteousness, not ours because we have none. Christ is our Mediator, He is the Mediator of the new covenant. He is our priest. Once one is saved by Christ, he is saved forever.

The gift is, the gift of calling one into the covenant.

 

[glorydaz]

It is best to seek God and read the bible for oneself and then look at the whole context of New Testament scripture from Acts to Revelations and see what God is really saying. Pray beforehand that the Lord will teach you through His Holy Spirit.

It is not good at all to allow someone to explain scripture away for the sake of building a doctrine that agrees with the opinions that are taught by man. I would imagine that there are many more on this forum and possibly many other christian forums who believe in OSAS than not, because so many of the mainstream churches make this doctrine their mantra and pretty much a mandate. I know because they tried unfruitfully to drill the doctrine of OSAS into my son a few years ago at vacation bible school, at a local baptist church. They tried to work him over pretty good and even held him in when they recessed, but to no avail... my son had enough bible in him to know better.

I am not trying to insult anyone here at all, It's just that your doctrine is a license to sin. My son said people were filling their mouths with tobacco and firing up cigarettes when that church would let out and many of those youth would binge drink on the week-ends.This is fallen human nature!! Why not, when they feel they can pretty much do what they want and still be saved, especially since they think they can't possibly fall away because they followed a church formula and were pronounced, "saved" by the pastor.

If you are going to teach the doctrine of OSAS then you better be stressing what it truly means to be born again, walking in holiness, and separated from the world, or else you will face God for causing souls to go to Hell.
As for me, I will continue to personally seek Jesus each and every day and live in Obedience to God, knowing full well that if I stop I will begin to fall away from Him and become like the world again. I cannot fathom someone who calls themself a Christian, not knowing something so basic and crucial.

Actually, it would be you that teaches a license to sin. It's a sin to claim glory that belongs to God alone. To deny the work of the cross and the keeping power of God is humanism at it's finest.

 

[Elf]

Actually, it would be you that teaches a license to sin. It's a sin to claim glory that belongs to God alone. To deny the work of the cross and the keeping power of God is humanism at it's finest.

Yes, I agree. It is also that spirit of slumber which does not help anyone.

“The Spirit of Slumber which the Poison of the old Serpent has brought upon the children of Men is to be deplored exceedingly.â€Cotton Mather

We should desire truth whether we like it or not.

 

[glorydaz]

1.It is not good at all to allow someone to explain scripture away for the sake of building a doctrine that agrees with the opinions that are taught by man. I would imagine that there are many more on this forum and possibly many other christian forums who believe in OSAS than not, because so many of the mainstream churches make this doctrine their mantra and pretty much a mandate.

2. It's just that your doctrine is a license to sin.

1. Again - the greatest preachers, missionaries, writers, evangelists, and pastors in past history held to the doctrine of eternal security. Look at the fake faith healers, fake TV preachers, charismatic gifters, liberal churches of today - they believe you can lose it - what a crowd!

2. Wrong - Look at the lives of today's modern fake faith healers, fake TV preachers, charismatic gifters, liberal churches of today - they believe you can lose it - what a crowd! Compare the lives of grace believers with the lose-its and you will find out who lives closer to the book.

Grace teaches one how to live - you folks live by the law.


I do personal work - I run into your crowd out there and they live looser than grace believers.

If you call walking with Jesus and obeying Him law, then I live by law according to you. That seems to be what you are calling law. I also believe in grace, but I don't think you have an understanding of what grace is except what has been dictated to you over the years through church doctrines.

As for the rest of your post all I can say is that I believe the bible and stay out of all that religious whoredom.

This is what happens when man believes he can do the work of Christ. He becomes self-righteous in his own understanding...after all, isn't he keeping himself? Isn't he of a higher mind than the rest?

I would say those who think they are maintaining their salvation by good works or obedience don't understand grace. Without grace even Mother Theresa would be lost. The most righteous man in the world falls short of God's glory. The modern church is so full of pride it has turned the foundations of faith and grace on end....heaping onto themselves coals of fire.

 

[glorydaz]

Actually, it would be you that teaches a license to sin. It's a sin to claim glory that belongs to God alone. To deny the work of the cross and the keeping power of God is humanism at it's finest.

Yes, I agree. It is also that spirit of slumber which does not help anyone.

“The Spirit of Slumber which the Poison of the old Serpent has brought upon the children of Men is to be deplored exceedingly.â€Cotton Mather

We should desire truth whether we like it or not.

Indeed, and they call evil good and good evil.

Who would have thought Jesus needed us to hold up the cross in order for it to have it's full effect?
It's suddenly a false doctrine to give God all the glory for saving and keeping those who were bought and paid for. Not one will address the verses given more than twice in this thread by the lion guy (sorry I can't remember your name, brother)...a long list of them, too.

 

[Elf]

Actually, it would be you that teaches a license to sin. It's a sin to claim glory that belongs to God alone. To deny the work of the cross and the keeping power of God is humanism at it's finest.

Yes, I agree. It is also that spirit of slumber which does not help anyone.

“The Spirit of Slumber which the Poison of the old Serpent has brought upon the children of Men is to be deplored exceedingly.â€Cotton Mather

We should desire truth whether we like it or not.

Indeed, and they call evil good and good evil.

Who would have thought Jesus needed us to hold up the cross in order for it to have it's full effect?
It's suddenly a false doctrine to give God all the glory for saving and keeping those who were bought and paid for. Not one will address the verses given more than twice in this thread by the lion guy (sorry I can't remember your name, brother)...a long list of them, too.

I noticed none will address the verses given, but will ask to explain the meaning of........

 

[glorydaz]

Folks not only didn't Augustine etc., not teach it but neither did Jesus and His apostles.

I would have to rip out too much scripture to make OSAS fit.. so I won't touch it.

No, you merely have to understand the verses you stand on to claim man can lose his salvation, and take them in context. Not one of you seems to even want to come near, much less touch, the promises in the Word that say it is the WILL OF GOD that Jesus will LOSE NONE the Father has given Him. You won't even come near them....why is that? Are you afraid the Holy Spirit might convict you of your denial of the work of the cross? You should be. What Jesus did on the cross is what being debated here. Was His sacrifice only good for our initial salvation? Is that really what you believe? That's only half the job...He rose into glory and lives to intercede for us. He raised us with Him and we sit in heavenly places. That's a long, long fall and Jesus isn't able to keep us?

 

[glorydaz]

just curious if you fell away then how does hebrews 6 not say salvation for those that is possible( that have tasted the things of the holy spirit and goodness of God).

its impossible for men to be saved when they have sinnned willingly and made a fresh the cruficixation of christ.

destiny have you ever sinned knowingly? Have you ever told a lie, knowing full well its a lie, or stole and know then you are stealing and so on.
and do so anyway
then salvation isnt possible for you at all then. i fall into the category if what you say is true.

in my heart of hearts i knew that being bi was wrong and lusted after that men anyway.I did repent ere i fell into that sin. i darnwell knew what the Lord said on that. but i wanted to hear what i wanted.

jason, I thank God for you and your honesty.
Some things are not easy to share with others, you show honesty and strength, and such a desire for truth. I pray God will richly bless you.

Praise God.

I've been wanting to say the same thing. Thanks for putting it into words, Elf.

 

[Elf]

We as Christians should believe there is a "fullness of salvation in Christ." The cry of our souls should be, "Give me Christ or else I die"
His Spirit is sufficient to sanctify even the most unholy person, 1 Cor 6:11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

The righteousness which Christ fulfilled as the condition of the covenant is valuable in the eyes of His Father, and is sufficient for sanctification, justification and everything else for the saving benefits of the elect, who of ourselves deserve death and hell. But, instead we (the elect) have everlasting life and are eternally secure under the covert of His righteousness, as a sufficient defense.
This is the general faith of the gospel.

Believest thou this?