Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[Mysteryman]

There are two laws that one can work towards the eternal salvation offered through Christ.

The first is to love your neighbour as yourself. This is an OT standard that entreats us to treat others as ourselves. This is called the golden rule...the royal law.

The second is to love God with everything you have and are. Faith and surrender to God!

In Christ, both ways become one. We walk supernaturally doing what the Spirit is showing us moment by moment. Walking in the Spirit is the training of Christ. We can only remain there through the training of righteousness. While we remain in God's presence we experience and radiate His holiness.

Hi A.

Faith without works is dead, but doing works in order to try and gain your faith, is folly !

Saved by grace and not of works lest any man shall boast ! So saith the scriptures !

When do you start your boasting ? By all means, start, so we can observe your boasting.

 

[Mysteryman]

One easy step towards apostasy...Men changeth not! God does!

Hi A.

One easy step towards procrastination, is that God does not change, and man does not change either.

One easy step towards hypocrisy, is that God does not change, and man says he has changed , when he actually has not.

 

[watchman F]

God promises us through His word that we can defeat sin, if we look closely at the word of God. There are many many promises that deal with that fact. .

We are told that "in every temptation, God will make a way of escape that we will be able to bear it".

God said "sin shall not have dominion over you".

I literally can list twenty more...reckon yourself dead unto sin and alive unto God.... praise be to God who always causes us to triumph in Christ Jesus, lead me not into temptation but deliver me from evil.... and so forth.

I firmly believe we have mistakenly missed why he has saved us (to set us free) "You shall call His name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins" (now, in this life) to preserve us blameless unto the coming of the Lord. In the Bible, we are told..."He that commits sin is the servant of sin, and the servant abides not in the house forever. But whom the Son sets free is free indeed."


We are told by Jesus Himself "Without me, you can do nothing." yet in the writings of Paul we are told "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.". Is this perhaps what Jesus meant when he expressed his deep concern that "when the Son of man returns, will he find faith on the earth?" Do we believe (have faith in) these promises of God for our lives?

Personally speaking, the sins that make up my personal "Achilles heel", not unlike yours, are not small ones that God turns a blind eye at. However He has promised us freedon from these vices. I have found as that His promises are meant for even the most wretched...and they work. This faith of who we are in Christ is what constitutes our shield spoken of in Ephesians 6, "wherewith we shall quench ALL the fiery darts of the wicked one".

I hope this explanation at least opens up the door for dialog. I fully understand the potential for controversy with this teaching. It goes against all that we have been taught, that we slowly change from the old man to the new by a lifelong, never ending process. I believe we can reach a point of sinlessness where we truly do pratake of the divine nature of Christ able to fully escape the corruption of this world. I contend that the only way the process can work as God intends is when we obey him and believe that "you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit if so be that the spirit dwells in you.", and that ''it is not we that live, but Christ that lives in us''

I believe that if we are truly experiencing the new covenant, then we will have complete victory over sin. To be a full grown son, we must be made free. I believe Jesus has made us free, all we must do now is walk in our freedom. When people say that we are not to make sin a habit, but yet everyone sins, and will not be completely freed from sin until the resurrection. They do not truly believe (have faith in the fact) that the Son can make us free indeed.

So we are given the promise of freedom from sin how do we begin to walk in that freedom, by knowing Christ and who we are in Him and to Him.
2nd Peter 1
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.



Scripture that tells us to live sinless lives
Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Rom 6:20-22
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Ephesians 4:17-32
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Do Not Grieve the Spirit
25 Therefore, putting away lying, “ Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor, for we are members of one another.
26 “Be angry, and do not sin†do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

1st Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from every form of evil.




Scriptures that say we are able to live sinlessly
Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit

1st Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil

Jude 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless, Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy



Scripture for walking in the Spirit.
Romans 6:1-4
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Galatians 5:16-25
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

1st John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.



Scriptures that tell us to be humble while pursuing perfection
Phil 3:12-15
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

1st Corinthians 9:26-27
26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.
27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

1st Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1st Corinthians 15:31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily


All thing are possible with God
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.â€

Ephesians 3:20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,






So back to the question How does God accomplish this in us? By showing us exactly who Christ is, and who we are. So when you ask yourself who is Christ and who we are you will probably come up with many answers. Christ is King of Kings, Lord of Lord, our Savior, the only true and righteous Judge, the almighty God these are all true. We are the redeemed, the Church, His body, a royal priesthood ect..., and these are all true, but the revelation that will truly change your life if you are able to fully comprehend the ramifications of this truth, is the 'Bridal Paradigm''. When we see Christ as our beloved Bridegroom, and we as His cherished Bride perfect in His sight, we will undoubtedly rid ourselves of all sin, and rededicate our lives to loving, and serving our Groom. When we come to the realization of the undying, unending, unexplainable love Christ has for us, we will love Him and others like we did not know was possible.
Ephesians 3
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

'Glory, is accomplishing what God has put us here on Earth to do" What God has created us to do or become is an equally yoked Bride for Christ, and to be equally yoked with Christ we must become perfected, and sinless in every way.
Ephesians 5
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Christ is returning for a perfected equally yoked Bride will we be ready?
Revelation 19
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

 

[Adullam]

One easy step towards apostasy...Men changeth not! God does!

Hi A.

One easy step towards procrastination, is that God does not change, and man does not change either.

One easy step towards hypocrisy, is that God does not change, and man says he has changed , when he actually has not.

Behold, all things remain as they are! So it is with many who read the words...

 

[glorydaz]

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, which no one knoweth but he that receiveth it.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations:

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 3:12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.

Rev 3:21 He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Now why would you leave out the most important verses concerning overcoming?

Not because you're trying to convince others they can lose their salvation, I hope.
This desire to bring doubt to those in the body is getting tiring. Who is the author of this tearing down of the assurance of the saint's salvation? It should be obvious to everyone.

Every single verse you posted is a promise to those who have been born again, and you're trying to imply they are ways we can lose our salvation....not good.

Those who are born of God have overcome the world because Jesus overcame the world.
We certainly didn't overcome the world in our own strength...He did the overcoming. We are partakers in this righteousness.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

 

[Mysteryman]

One easy step towards apostasy...Men changeth not! God does!

Hi A.

One easy step towards procrastination, is that God does not change, and man does not change either.

One easy step towards hypocrisy, is that God does not change, and man says he has changed , when he actually has not.

Behold, all things remain as they are! So it is with many who read the words...

HI

Righteousness of God is not the righteousness of man

Nor can man make himself righteous by anything that he does.

Titus 3:5 - "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneratin, and renewing of the Holy Spirit"

Titus 3:6 - "Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour"

context verses 7 - 15.

 

[glorydaz]

Branches will be broken off. Don't be deceived. The word of God is like water to a tree. The delight in riches chokes off the word - the tree doesn't get water, the branch withers. It is broken off and tossed into the fire. Don't think just because the branch has sprung forth that it can not wither and die. Even the elect, especially the elect are chasened.

The elect are chastened...we sons of God.
That has nothing to do with losing one's salvation.

You're speaking of those who hear the Word of God but do not draw sustenance from the vine. They have not been born again...they spring up in rocky soil...they do not have the Holy Spirit so bear no fruit.

No. I'm speaking of those who hear the word, but the cares of the world and the delight in riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. Mt. 13:22

Yes, and, of course, hearing the Word does not mean one will go on to be saved.
The seed (Word) that falls on good ground and brings forth fruit are those who have been born again of the Spirit. No Spirit...no fruit.

But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

 

[glorydaz]

Then we have those who hear the Word and accepted Jesus : Mat 13:5 and others fell upon the rocky places, where they had not much earth: and straightway they sprang up, because they had no deepness of earth: But then the sun came up and they fell away again .Mat 13:6 and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. (They fell away from salvation )

The second group also fell away from salvation : Mat 13:7 And others fell upon the thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked them: (no life left in them, they are choked)


Meaning, you will indeed need spiritual ears, to be able to understand this.

No, they did not fall away from salvation. You're reading your own doctrine into scripture.
If you honestly believe those who hear the word and respond for a time are saved then you don't understand salvation. All those guys who go to jail and find Jesus are NOT saved. This is the problem with this entire thread. There is no understanding of what it means to be born again.

It does, indeed, require one to have "spiritual ears"...discernment, and I'm beginning to wonder if there is any. To claim those are born again believers is wrong. If you make that claim then why come out of the churches...they are filled with people just like that. You think they're all really saved???????? :crazy

 

[watchman F]

This is the problem with this entire thread. There is no understanding of what it means to be born again.

The problem with this thread is you care more about ''staying saved'' than you do about serving Christ or learning truth

 

[Mysteryman]

This is the problem with this entire thread. There is no understanding of what it means to be born again.

The problem with this thread is you care more about ''staying saved'' than you do about serving Christ or learning truth

Hi Watchman:

Titus 3:5 - "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneratin, and renewing of the Holy Spirit"

Titus 3:6 - "Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour"

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus is talking to believers here. After all they are driving out demons in His name.


Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock:
Mat 7:25 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and if fell not: for it was founded upon the rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall thereof.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had


Well if any Christian believes that "depart from me" means "welcome to heaven" then I suppose there is a good reason why the Lord is keeping them blind to the truth. I cannot venture to say why, because in reality He is the only one who can open eyes and ears. But I am sure, that many will read these verses, then think very hard to explain, why they are not talking about Christians.

You start out right by saying not all who claim to be saved are, indeed, saved, and then you go on to say you believe them when they claim to have cast out demons and to have done mighty works in His name.

Then, to add insult to injury, you refuse to believe Jesus when He says, "I NEVER KNEW you.". Is Jesus lying and the men telling the truth?

Look around...there are men today who claim to cast out demons...they also claim to raise the dead and do all kinds of signs and wonders. You can believe them all if you like, but calling Jesus a liar is a little much. "I never knew you". Think about it. Does he say, "You deserted me" or "You were mine, but you failed"? No, He doesn't.

 

[glorydaz]

This is the problem with this entire thread. There is no understanding of what it means to be born again.

The problem with this thread is you care more about ''staying saved'' than you do about serving Christ or learning truth

LOL Not hardly. You're the one who is concerned about staying saved. I know my condition.

And how dare you even assume I don't care about serving the Lord of "learning" the Truth. I know the truth...it's given quite clearly in the Word. I'm not the one denying the work of the cross and God's power to save and keep those the Father has given Him.

 

[glorydaz]

.
I am relying on the grace of God for my salvation. If I am supposed to keep some kind of law to be saved, some kind of special works, then I guess I am out of luck. I’ve never met anyone who didn’t fail in some way or another in regard to any kind of law. And I’ve seen a lot of laws from the OT law to the supposedly NT law to all kinds of denominational laws. Guess they’re all out of luck too.

And if I have to hope that I die with Jesus Christ as my Lord, guess I’m out of luck there too, because that really depends on how I feel at the moment. Sometimes he isn’t my Lord. I generally come back to my senses eventually. But I don’t base my assurance of salvation on my own weak nature. If that’s all I have going for me, then I’m lost and every Christian I know or have heard of is lost. Not much of a religion if that’s the case. Indeed, it isn’t any different from any other religion if that’s the case.

And I’m not relying on my great faith in Christ either. Never had a great faith. I’ve met a lot of people who are depending on their own great faith to save them. Sure hope they’re right about their great faith.

JamesG

Unfortunately, from the beginning of time, man has glorified himself rather than his Creator.
He just can't seem to grasp his salvation is not his to gain. It's a gift, and man doesn't believe God is able to save and keep those who are His. The sad part is...there is none righteous. We see people who think they are, and that's a dangerous assumption.

 

[glorydaz]

Since you folks refuse to deal with the passages I presented then carry on with out me - I've had enough.

They can't....if they did, they'd have to admit they were wrong. Pride is ever present in man.

 

[Adullam]

Here are 7 statements that apparently support unconditional salvation...


Proof #1 Man has no natural desire or ability to obey or please God for salvation.

Proof #2 God expressly denies man's will or works in obtaining salvation.

Proof #3 Faith and works are results of salvation, not conditions or means for it.

Proof #4 Jesus Christ saves sinners by Himself without any human cooperation.

Proof #5 The gospel and its ordinances were never intended to give eternal life.

Proof #6 The Bible gives examples of sinners saved without any conditions.

Proof #7 Unconditional salvation is the only doctrine giving God all the glory.

 

[glorydaz]

So true.
Those doctrines are responsible for apostasy and worldliness and do great harm to the body of Christ. I named a specific church that was carnal and worldly because of the OSAS doctrine, and I was personally involved in another one where the pastor refused to preach on obedience because the members were "already saved", according to him. During the time this ex Baptist preacher was there I watched that church fling open wide its doors to worldliness and carnality, the comparison was like night and day.
We left that church and never went back to organized religion again; I know first hand what doctrines such as OSAS can do to a congregation. This is why I passionately stand against such heresy.

If you were honest, you'd admit there are unsaved people in all churches. For you to say it's OSAS that is responsible for sin is willful blindness. The true heresy is claiming God needs man's help to be saved and to stay saved. That denies God's power, the power of the cross, and the power of the Holy Spirit. Those who have true repentance have a circumcised heart, are born again unto eternal life. Those who claim man can lose his salvation are playing right into Satan's hands. He is the one who claims God is not able, and I see way too many Christians who have bought his lie. I thought it was only satan who stood accusing the brethern, but now I see Christians doing the same thing. Works-based salvation is forever rearing it's ugly head.

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So, keep claiming Christ is not ABLE to keep you...ignore the promises because you see so many people who claim to be saved but aren't. Man will forever seek after his own glory.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

 

[Adullam]

False assurance.



I. What is intended by one's thinking that he standeth.




The original word rendered thinketh, in this text, is used, according to some distinguished commentators, not to weaken but to strengthen the sense. In Luke 8:18, the same word is rendered seemeth. Thinketh, in this text, means great confidence, a strong assurance; as if the Apostle had said--Let him that has great confidence, or a strong assurance that he standeth, take heed lest he fall.

II. In what such a confidence may be founded.

1. A person may be very confident of his own good state, in consequence of mistaken notions in respect to the natural goodness of his character.

2. He may feel great confidence, that he shall persevere in holiness, perform all his duty, and be saved, on the ground that he knows himself to be naturally able to obey God.

3. This confidence may be founded in a dependence upon our own discretion, and prudence, and wisdom, and zeal, in the cause of Christ.

4. It may be founded in a confidence in our experience. Persons are very apt to rely much upon their own experience; they suppose themselves to be more than a match, even for the devil himself, in cases where they have the light of their own past experience to guide them.

5. This confidence may be founded in the consideration of what God has done for us; in the fact, that He has so often given us grace to overcome temptation--and in the fact, that He has, perhaps for weeks, or months, kept us in a state of perfect conscious peace of mind, and given us entire exemption from any felt condemnation.

6. A man may be very confident that he standeth, because he believes himself to have been spiritually cleansed. He feels certain that God has renewed in him a clean heart, and a right spirit; and from this he draws the assured conclusion, that he shall not fall.

7. He may place great confidence in his purposed watchfulness. He feels so strong, and for the present, so stedfast a determination to watch unto prayer, and to pray in the Holy Ghost, that he feels a strong assurance of perseverance in holiness.

8. He may place great confidence in the great strength of his own faith. Indeed, persons are very apt, when in the exercise of strong faith, to suppose it next to impossible, that they shall ever again be guilty of unbelief. Especially is this true, if they are conscious, for a long time, of having exercised strong faith without any wavering.

9. This confidence may be founded in the fact, that we find ourselves to be dead to the influence of the world, and of the flesh, and, through grace, more than a match for the devil. When placed under circumstances in which we formerly found ourselves easily overcome, we may experience such a kind of supernatural strength, and find ourselves so lifted above the influence of temptation, as to be confident, that all our lusts and sins are for ever slain.

10. This confidence my be founded in the promises of God. We feel that we believe them. We know it at the time, with as much certainty as we know our own existence, and hence infer, and feel assured, that God will keep us for ever from falling under the power of temptation, and "preserve us faultless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

III. This confidence, whatever may be its foundation, cannot of itself secure the soul against falling into sin and hell.

1. Because, if it is founded in any thing naturally good in us, it is ill-founded of course.

2. If it is founded in what grace has already done for us, it is ill-founded; for however much grace may have done, it has not changed our nature. Our constitutional susceptibilities remain the same. It has not so changed our relations and circumstances as to exempt us from temptation; and consequently, nothing that grace has done, or ever will do for us, can render our perseverance in holiness unconditionally certain.

3. If this confidence is based upon our purposed watchfulness, prayerfulness, experience, or faith; these, independent of the sovereign grace of God, afford no such foundation for our confidence, as to render it at all certain, or even probable, that we shall not sin again.

4. If this confidence is based upon the promises of God, it will not render our perseverance unconditionally certain; because the promises of God are all conditioned upon our faith, and the right exercise of our own agency. This is a revealed principle under the government of God. Ezek. 18:21-29: "If the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him; in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all, that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God; and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel. Is not my way equal? Are not your ways unequal? When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done, shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? Are not your ways unequal?" Ezek. 33:12-16: "Thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust in his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousness shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; if the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he hath robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of his sins that he hath committed, shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live." Jer. 18:7-10: "At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and pull down, and to destroy it; if that nation against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build, and to plant; if it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, than I will repent of the good wherewith I said I would benefit them."

5. Any confidence in the promises of God, either for sanctification or final salvation, that does not recognize this universal principle in the government of God, is ill-founded and vain; because God has revealed this as a universal principle of his government; and whether expressed or not, in connection with each promise, it is always implied. Overlooking this fact, has often made the promises "a stone of stumbling" to those to whom they were given.

IV. Continued watchfulness, and wakeful activity of soul, are indispensable to continued holiness and final salvation.



Beloved Christian brother, why do you pray for forgiveness when you sin? Is it not because you feel condemned? But if you were already perfectly and permanently justified, you are mistaken in praying for forgiveness; for you are already forgiven, and not condemned. You cannot possibly be pardoned, unless you are condemned; for what is pardon, but setting aside the execution of law? If, therefore, men are permanently justified by one act of faith, they not only have no need of pardon from that moment, however much they may sin, but to pardon them is impossible, as they are not condemned. And why, let me ask you, should Christ teach you to pray daily for the forgiveness of your past sins, if by one act of faith, you are permanently justified? Let me conclude, then, by saying, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall."

 

[Adullam]

Here are 7 statements that apparently support unconditional salvation...


Proof #1 Man has no natural desire or ability to obey or please God for salvation.


False. There would be no religions if this were so. It is the other way round. Men are constantly trying to be justified before God.


Proof #2 God expressly denies man's will or works in obtaining salvation.

False. We are to choose life. Behold I set before you life and death... Zacchaeus gave back what he had stole...plus interest! This was a saving act on his part. Behold..salvation has come. The thief on the cross asked to be remembered. He was promised life. We are to ask seek knock watch and pray.

Proof #3 Faith and works are results of salvation, not conditions or means for it.

False. It is not..."save and you will believe." More backwards theology. It is..."believe and you will be saved!" Believing is the work...salvation the result. We are to ask seek knock watch and pray.

Proof #4 Jesus Christ saves sinners by Himself without any human cooperation.

False. Unless a man pick up his cross daily, he cannot be his disciple. Man must surrender and repent...always.

Proof #5 The gospel and its ordinances were never intended to give eternal life.

This makes no sense...although nothing by this poster does.

Proof #6 The Bible gives examples of sinners saved without any conditions.

False. The opposite is true as usual. A person receives grace when the conditions are met..ie repentance, faith, prayer etc...

Proof #7 Unconditional salvation is the only doctrine giving God all the glory.

False. this is human reasoning. This saddles God with the responsibilty for us sinning. We are not proving God's righteousness by our unrighteousness. I don't need to weigh 500 pounds to make an athlete look fit. God doesn't need our help to prove He is righteous and holy. So there is no danger in us doing what is right before Him. He is not threatened by this! He is glorified when we obey...not disobey.

 

[glorydaz]

Personally speaking, the sins that make up my personal "Achilles heel", not unlike yours, are not small ones that God turns a blind eye at. However He has promised us freedon from these vices. I have found as that His promises are meant for even the most wretched...and they work. This faith of who we are in Christ is what constitutes our shield spoken of in Ephesians 6, "wherewith we shall quench ALL the fiery darts of the wicked one".

Then I'm presuming you believe if you die before you're perfected, you're lost and will spend eternity gnashing your teeth. What if you step out your door tomorrow and a truck hits you? Or you die in your sleep. Or is it just others that won't be kept by the power of God?

 

[Adullam]

Personally speaking, the sins that make up my personal "Achilles heel", not unlike yours, are not small ones that God turns a blind eye at. However He has promised us freedon from these vices. I have found as that His promises are meant for even the most wretched...and they work. This faith of who we are in Christ is what constitutes our shield spoken of in Ephesians 6, "wherewith we shall quench ALL the fiery darts of the wicked one".

Then I'm presuming you believe if you die before you're perfected, you're lost and will spend eternity gnashing your teeth. What if you step out your door tomorrow and a truck hits you? Or you die in your sleep. Or is it just others that won't be kept by the power of God?

A person in grade 3 is not expected to pass a grade 9 exam. At least not until he is in grade 9. Do you understand the logic, here? We all expect to graduate high school. A person who believes they already have a high school diploma while still in kindergarden is...well.... very welcome at church!!! Flunkies and dropouts are the norm now....why go to school if you already have the diploma????

To whom much is given, much is required.