Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[Jethro Bodine]

You apparently learned logic from the slips of paper inside a fortune cookie.

First you're right "unfaithful" doesn't mean "denying". But second, you fail to take that logical principle/premise to it's logical conclusion. (Except when it suits you of course)

"Denying" doesn't mean "de-saved" either:

Good, you agree that being faithless and denying Christ are different things. But then you add that it doesn't mean losing your salvation, either. So it means..................?

"Denying" doesn't mean "de-saved" either:

Matthew 26:35 Peter said to him, “Even if it is necessary for me to die with you, I will never deny you!” And all the disciples said the same thing. ...
​

Yet they all "denied" Him later but were not de-saved as a result of their denial. Jesus remained faithful to them, however. It's His nature. If Jesus is in a Christian (and He is), then for Jesus to be unfaithful to that person can be poetically compared to Him being unfaithful to Himself.

I've made it clear that it is God, and God alone, that decides when and where he turns a person over to their denial of Christ. There's no reason to think that it's a legalistic light switch that as soon as you deny Christ you are instantaneously denied by Christ. Besides justice being an attribute of God, we know his long suffering is also one of his attributes. We see this clearly in the letters to the churches in Revelation.

If Peter had refused Christ's reinstatement in John 21 it would have been more likely that Christ would in turn deny him. And after that? Who knows. We just know that Christ will deny the one who denies him....unless they repent, like Peter did. God takes mitigating factors into consideration whenever he passes/ withholds judgment.

You are the one that used 2 Tim 2's "deny Him" as if it was a de-salvation synonym. Same as you do "spew you out", "fall away", etc.

I asked you once for a complete list of all these phrases that you think are synonyms for "de-salvation". You didn't answer.

And that will do what good? I'm not going to help you play your meaningless word games. I showed you the plain passages of scripture that describe the loss of the forgiveness of sin through careless neglect and/or contempt for the forgiveness a person has received.

And you have yet to produce a text that describes someone that is saved being literally de-saved or unsaved. Because there aren't any.

Are you going to make me post Matthew 18:23-35 NASB, and Hebrews 10:23,26-30 again? Yeah, yeah, I know....you think those plain words don't describe people losing their forgiveness in Christ.

Yet, You posted 2 Tim 2:12 as if it met that criteria. It doesn't, for the very reason you mention above. "Denying" does not mean "de-saved". Being inconsistent is a sign of error.

Your little word game does not show us how it can't possibly be talking about believers being denied by Christ (word games are a red flag that someone is grasping for an argument). Please give us some plain words of scripture that say believers can't deny Christ, just as I have produced plain words of scripture that say they can.

 

[FreeGrace]

You apparently don't know what the difference between being unfaithful and denying Christ is. We know there is a difference because the text says they each have a different outcome:

12 ...If we deny Him, He also will deny us

13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful

Denying Christ results in being denied.

The real question is what it means by "He also will deny us". Look at v.12a. What is the conditional statement? IF we (believers) ENDURE, we WILL reign with Him". Reigning with Christ is one of the eternal rewards that faithful believers receive. Not all believers will reign with Christ. It is an assumption, and a wrong one, to assume that reigning with Christ is equivalent to being with Him. All believers will be with Him, for sure. But not all believers will reign with Him, as this verse very clearly states. One has to endure to reign with Him.

So, what does the "denying" mean? It means that those believers who didn't endure WON'T reign with Christ. This is all about reward, not loss of salvation.

While being faithless results in him continuing to be faithful to us. So you can see it's impossible, logically, that denying Christ and being faithless are the same thing.

Actually, they are the same thing. The point of v.13 is that even when believers are faithless (didn't endure), God remains faithful, and CANNOT DENY HIMSELF. Bolded for emphasis. What does that phrase mean? Since the Holy Spirit resides in every believer, this is a clear guarantee that all believers will be saved. God cannot deny Himself, and therefore even Holy Spirit indwelt non-enduring believers will still be saved.

We see the same promise in Eph 4:30. But first, Eph 1:13 says that believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit. In 4:30, it says we are sealed for the day of redemption. Very simple and very clear.

Faithless--failing to trust Christ in matters of daily obedience, but clinging to Christ's forgiveness for that weakness, nonetheless. Christ has a continuing obligation to be faithful to the person who is clinging to his forgiveness to cover their faithless failures and weaknesses.

All of this means loss of the reward of reigning with Christ. Recall Rom 8:17 which says we are co-heirs with Christ, IF we suffer for His Name (endure in faith).

In denial--denying one's relationship with Christ altogether. Christ has no obligation to be faithful to the person--saved, or unsaved--who does this.

This is wrong, based on v.13. God cannot deny Himself, and Christ promised the Holy Spirit would be with us (believers) forever.

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

What OSAS has to do is get out of this circular reasoning rut and prove that saved people can't deny Christ, not simply say that they can't deny Christ because they are saved. I've shown the scriptures that show us it is possible for saved people to deny Christ...and what will happen if they do.

What will happen is that Christ will DENY that believer the privilege of reigning with Him. Not loss of salvation as is wrongly assumed.

 

[JLB]

You apparently learned logic from the slips of paper inside a fortune cookie.

First you're right "unfaithful" doesn't mean "denying". But second, you fail to take that logical principle/premise to it's logical conclusion. (Except when it suits you of course)

"Denying" doesn't mean "de-saved" either:

Matthew 26:35 Peter said to him, “Even if it is necessary for me to die with you, I will never deny you!” And all the disciples said the same thing. ...
​

Yet they all "denied" Him later but were not de-saved as a result of their denial. Jesus remained faithful to them, however. It's His nature. If Jesus is in a Christian (and He is), then for Jesus to be unfaithful to that person can be poetically compared to Him being unfaithful to Himself.

You are the one that used 2 Tim 2's "deny Him" as if it was a de-salvation synonym. Same as you do "spew you out", "fall away", etc.

I asked you once for a complete list of all these phrases that you think are synonyms for "de-salvation". You didn't answer. And you have yet to produce a text that describes someone that is saved being literally de-saved or unsaved. Because there aren't any. Yet, You posted 2 Tim 2:12 as if it met that criteria. It doesn't, for the very reason you mention above. "Denying" does not mean "de-saved". Being inconsistent is a sign of error.

Yes, Peter did deny Him and later, repented and was restored.

This is, however different than denying Him and then dying in that condition.

Example: if a born again Christian, renounces Jesus Christ, and converts to Islam, and continues in this religion and dies, then that former believer, will suffer the same fate as all those who are of that religion.


JLB

 

[JLB]

free grace said -

The real question is what it means by "He also will deny us". Look at v.12a. What is the conditional statement? IF we (believers) ENDURE, we WILL reign with Him". Reigning with Christ is one of the eternal rewards that faithful believers receive. Not all believers will reign with Christ. It is an assumption, and a wrong one, to assume that reigning with Christ is equivalent to being with Him. All believers will be with Him, for sure. But not all believers will reign with Him, as this verse very clearly states. One has to endure to reign with Him.

It is an assumption, and a wrong one, to assume that reigning with Christ is equivalent to being with Him.


Please provide scripture for this opinion of yours.


JLB

 

[chessman]

So it means..................?

Unfaithfulness means unfaithfulness.
Denying Him means denying Him. How could I be more clear.
Neither Unfaithfulness nor Denying Him means “un-saved”. That’s my point.

(word games are a red flag that someone is grasping for an argument)

Yes, they are. That’s my point. I made if first and you can’t have it. Nanny, nanny boo boo. Come up with your own point.
Now you can share my point with me if you’ll stop playing word games with these phrases that don’t mean de-salvation, like "deny Him", “spew you out”, etc.
Why do you play word games with “spew you out of God’s mouth, Unfaithfulness, Denying Him, fall away, etc. , if you believe in the principle that doing so is a red flag of a weak/non-existent argument.

Post a verse that truly teaches, “plainly and clearly” that a saved person became de-saved and I’ll believe it.

What has been demonstrated in this Tread so far is that each and every verse that you’ve posted so far in effect has you playing word games with these phrases that sound similar enough to “loosing salvation” that it fools some people into thinking that’s what is meant by the phrase.

In fact, when you go look at the passages in their context they are demonstrating other principles of God’s nature (His discipline, His patience, His Mercy, His rewards, etc.) than the one you suppose that He possess (that it’s within His nature to de-save (un-save) someone that He has saved in the first place.

Besides justice being an attribute of God, we know his long suffering is also one of his attributes. We see this clearly in the letters to the churches in Revelation.

Yes, we see it starting with Adam/Eve, Noah, Abraham, The Prophets, King David, Moses, the denying disciples, Saul, etc. etc. In fact I cannot think of a single person that God has saved that hasn’t demonstrated some measure of unfaithfulness toward God (except One of course).
You say you don’t even know where the line of demarcation is where unfaithfulness/denying crosses over to de-salvation. You’re right, you don’t know. Don’t you find that a little odd that something so vitally important to this topic, you don’t know about.
Here’s what we do know:

God takes mitigating factors into consideration whenever he passes/ withholds judgment.

True.

I showed you the plain passages of scripture that describe the loss of the forgiveness of sin through careless neglect and/or contempt for the forgiveness a person has received.

Umm, no you haven’t. You showed several that don’t demonstrate a saved person losing their salvation, yet you think they do.

Please give us some plain words of scripture that say believers can't deny Christ,

Umm, are you reading my posts? Paul and every single one of the disciples “denied Christ”. That was my point that logically excludes the phrase “deny Him” as a de-salvation synonym phrase.
I don’t know of a single example of a prominent believer in the Bible that hasn’t “denied Christ” in some way or another. The thief on the cross, maybe?
I guess you just ignore points of logic that disagree with your doctrine and continue merrily on your way. Think this through. “Deny Him” cannot logically mean de-salvation!

 

[chessman]

Yes, Peter did deny Him and later, repented and was restored.

JLB

Your buddy disagrees with you.

No, the believer can not be saved over and over again. Once God denies you because you denied him first, it's over.
(... getting saved over and over again is not part of the argument for non-OSAS.)

I, however agree with your point above. Plus, if you'll read on in the account, each and every disciple feel asleep, being unfaithful to Jesus' direct command to do otherwise.

So why then do you think 2 Tim 2:11-12 use of "WE" iin that passage includes Paul and Timothy specifically and therefore describe them specifcally denying Him? Did Paul and Timothy need to repent and be restored to salvation?

"if we deny him, he also will deny us;"

This is how you share the Gospel to un-saved people. "if we deny him [deny He is God], he also will deny us";

John 8:24 (LEB) Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”​

 

[JLB]

Chessman said -

Deny Him” cannot logically mean de-salvation!

Salvation comes at the end of your faith, whereby you will be Judged what you produced with the precious born again divine nature, and the measure of the Holy Spirit you were given.

If during the time you are saved, you decide to turn to Allah, under persecution, whereby you deny Jesus Christ as Lord, then at your judgement He will deny you.

You have already admitted that a person will not be considered to be a believer anymore if they turn from Christ and no longer believe, but rather confess Allah as Lord.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Your buddy disagrees with you.



I, however agree with your point above. Plus, if you'll read on in the account, each and every disciple feel asleep, being unfaithful to Jesus' direct command to do otherwise.

So why then do you think 2 Tim 2:11-12 use of "WE" iin that passage includes Paul and Timothy specifically and therefore describe them specifcally denying Him? Did Paul and Timothy need to repent and be restored to salvation?

"if we deny him, he also will deny us;"

This is how you share the Gospel to un-saved people. "if we deny him [deny He is God], he also will deny us";

John 8:24 (LEB) Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”​

Remember,

When Peter had denied knowing The Lord, he had not yet heard these words:

Receive the Holy Spirit...


JLB

 

[chessman]

You have already admitted that a person will not be considered to be a believer anymore if they turn from Christ and no longer believe, but rather confess Allah as Lord.
JLB

No I didn't. Are you referring to this exchange?

Do you believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of torture and death, and convert to Islam and still expect to be saved?

I answered:

No

You asked me about me (Chessman). Not about “a person”. I cannot speak for what other persons would/wouldn’t do or what God will do to them for their deeds. All I know relative to their salvation is what He will do to them based on what they believed in their hearts about Jesus. Frankly, trials/tribulations to include prison and knives to the throat are just that. Various mometary afflctions in the grand scheme of things. I also know saved people lie all the time. Including Peter saying I'll never deny you Lord.

 

[chessman]

Remember,

When Peter had denied knowing The Lord, he had not yet heard these words:

Receive the Holy Spirit...


JLB

Was that an answer to my question about Paul and Timothy being included in the "WE" of those that deny Him or not?

 

[FreeGrace]

It is an assumption, and a wrong one, to assume that reigning with Christ is equivalent to being with Him.


Please provide scripture for this opinion of yours.
JLB

The very wording is different. Can anyone provide Scripture that equates the 2 terms? If not, there is no reason to assume that they are.

The Bible promises that we will be with Him forever. Do you need Scripture for that promise? And the Bible is clear about what it takes to reign with Him.

They aren't the same.

 

[chessman]

Salvation comes at the end of your faith, whereby you will be Judged …
JLB

You flip-flop back and forth faster than a tennis ball in a tennis match.
Make up your mind. If salvation merely comes at the end of your faith (like you imply above), then what in the world are you doing in this thread arguing for someone being able to lose their salvation after getting saved?
“Losing Salvation after getting saved?” is the topic.
If nobody has salvation now (on your view as stated above) then you can’t very well lose it can you? Why all the posts saying you can, then? Be consistent.

 

[FreeGrace]

Salvation comes at the end of your faith

Jesus said this: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Jn 5:24

There are 3 tenses here: past, present, and future. Re: the past, we have been saved from the penalty of sin. Re: the present: we are saved from the power of sin. Re: the future, we will be saved from the presence of sin.

whereby you will be Judged what you produced with the precious born again divine nature, and the measure of the Holy Spirit you were given.

Yes, at the Bema, or Judgment Seat of Christ, we will received what we have earned; whether good or bad.
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Cor 5:10

This is a reference to rewards or lack thereof, depending on the "good and bad".

If during the time you are saved, you decide to turn to Allah, under persecution, whereby you deny Jesus Christ as Lord, then at your judgement He will deny you.

There is no verse to support this claim. 2 Tim 2:12 is clear. What will be denied for those believers who don't endure is reigning with Christ. May be a surprise, but v.12a and v.12b actually go together, in context. The subject in v.12a is how one reigns with Christ. If that means salvation, then salvation is by enduring. Are you prepared to argue for salvation by works? I'm sure not.

You have already admitted that a person will not be considered to be a believer anymore if they turn from Christ and no longer believe, but rather confess Allah as Lord.

The real issue is what all happens to one WHEN they believe. Are they on 'probation'? If that were true, what Scripture says so? Of course not.

When one believes, they are given the free gift of eternal life. And it actually means exactly what it says; "eternal". God does not give "conditional life" to believers, and then at the end of their life determine whether to actually give them eternal life. Nope. He gives eternal life WHEN one believes. Jn 5:24.

Also, the believer is given the right to be a child of God. Jn 1:12, Rom 8:16, 1 Jn 3:1.

The Bible provides a beautiful analogy of God and the believer; that of Father and child.

Just as a good father will hold his child's hand tightly and SECURELY, so does our Heavenly Father.

The view that salvation can be lost, given up, forfeited, etc, comes from an incomplete understanding of grace.

We are saved by grace, through faith (Eph 2:8). Works have nothing to do with our salvation. None. Rom 4:4,5 Eph 2:9.

 

[JLB]

Jesus said this: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Jn 5:24

There are 3 tenses here: past, present, and future. Re: the past, we have been saved from the penalty of sin. Re: the present: we are saved from the power of sin. Re: the future, we will be saved from the presence of sin.


Yes, at the Bema, or Judgment Seat of Christ, we will received what we have earned; whether good or bad.
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." 2 Cor 5:10

This is a reference to rewards or lack thereof, depending on the "good and bad".


There is no verse to support this claim. 2 Tim 2:12 is clear. What will be denied for those believers who don't endure is reigning with Christ. May be a surprise, but v.12a and v.12b actually go together, in context. The subject in v.12a is how one reigns with Christ. If that means salvation, then salvation is by enduring. Are you prepared to argue for salvation by works? I'm sure not.


The real issue is what all happens to one WHEN they believe. Are they on 'probation'? If that were true, what Scripture says so? Of course not.

When one believes, they are given the free gift of eternal life. And it actually means exactly what it says; "eternal". God does not give "conditional life" to believers, and then at the end of their life determine whether to actually give them eternal life. Nope. He gives eternal life WHEN one believes. Jn 5:24.

Also, the believer is given the right to be a child of God. Jn 1:12, Rom 8:16, 1 Jn 3:1.

The Bible provides a beautiful analogy of God and the believer; that of Father and child.

Just as a good father will hold his child's hand tightly and SECURELY, so does our Heavenly Father.

The view that salvation can be lost, given up, forfeited, etc, comes from an incomplete understanding of grace.


We are saved by grace, through faith (Eph 2:8). Works have nothing to do with our salvation. None. Rom 4:4,5 Eph 2:9.

This whole post that you posted, could really be answered with a good study of the word "believe" or "believeth" .

Here is a scripture that is written out in both the NKJV and the KVJ.

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV


Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV

Notice that unbelief and disobedience are interchangeable.

Jesus said; why do you call me Lord and do not do what I say.

Paul says it this way -

As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.

James says faith WITHOUT works is dead.

The works of faith, is obedience!


Look at the words Jesus, that He will say on that Day of Judgement!


Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:44-46

Jesus said these words to His servants who never obeyed the leading to minister to anyone.


JLB

 

[JLB]

You flip-flop back and forth faster than a tennis ball in a tennis match.
Make up your mind. If salvation merely comes at the end of your faith (like you imply above), then what in the world are you doing in this thread arguing for someone being able to lose their salvation after getting saved?
“Losing Salvation after getting saved?” is the topic.
If nobody has salvation now (on your view as stated above) then you can’t very well lose it can you? Why all the posts saying you can, then? Be consistent.

I have never flip flopped once!

We were saved, and will continue to be saved if we continue in the faith.

It's not hard.

The reality of The salvation we have been hoping for, will become a tangible reality, at the resurrection, IF WE CONTINUE IN FAITH TO THE END!

That is what I have been saying for years and have never changed.

I'm sorry that you gave been taught a false Gospel, brother.

JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

This whole post that you posted, could really be answered with a good study of the word "believe" or "believeth" .

We shall see. ;)

Here is a scripture that is written out in both the NKJV and the KVJ.

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV

Notice that unbelief and disobedience are interchangeable.

Correct. And what is your point about that. Or what about Heb 3:19? "So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

We know that Moses didn't enter the promised land because of disobedience.

Jesus said; why do you call me Lord and do not do what I say.

Paul says it this way -

As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.

James says faith WITHOUT works is dead.

The works of faith, is obedience!


Look at the words Jesus, that He will say on that Day of Judgement!


Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:44-46

Jesus said these words to His servants who never obeyed the leading to minister to anyone.
JLB

I'm still wondering what your point is. Please elaborate. You've cited a number of passages. But you haven't explained any of them. Please do.

While you're at it, would you please try to interact with what I've posted. Seems there is just a one way conversation going on here. I've interacted with your posts. Please extend the same courtesy. Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace]

We were saved, and will continue to be saved if we continue in the faith.

Sounds as if your final salvation depends on yourself by the "if we continue in the faith" phrase. Yet, that phrase as found in Scripture is clearly not about getting or staying saved.

My salvation wholly depends upon Christ, who died on the cross for all my sins. There isn't anything I can do to "help" Him save me. In fact, I am totally unable to offer any work or deed or fruit on my behalf that will have any effect upon my salvation.

The reality of The salvation we have been hoping for, will become a tangible reality, at the resurrection, IF WE CONTINUE IN FAITH TO THE END!

Yet, there is no Scripture that supports this claim.

That is what I have been saying for years and have never changed.

Is there any Scripture that does support what you claim? If not, maybe a thought change is in order.

 

[JLB]

No I didn't. Are you referring to this exchange?

I answered:

You asked me about me (Chessman). Not about “a person”. I cannot speak for what other persons would/wouldn’t do or what God will do to them for their deeds. All I know relative to their salvation is what He will do to them based on what they believed in their hearts about Jesus. Frankly, trials/tribulations to include prison and knives to the throat are just that. Various mometary afflctions in the grand scheme of things. I also know saved people lie all the time. Including Peter saying I'll never deny you Lord.

No one asked you to speak for anyone else.

I said you admitted...


However, by saying no I didn't , you seem to be flip flopping on this issue.

That's Ok.


I love you anyway.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Free Grace said -

Sounds as if your final salvation depends on yourself by the "if we continue in the faith" phrase. Yet, that phrase as found in Scripture is clearly not about getting or staying saved.

My salvation wholly depends upon Christ, who died on the cross for all my sins. There isn't anything I can do to "help" Him save me. In fact, I am totally unable to offer any work or deed or fruit on my behalf that will have any effect upon my salvation.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


You were reconciled, who once were alienated and enemies....

IF INDEED YOU CONTINUE, AND ARE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL!

The hope of the Gospel!

The hope of the Gospel is the salvation of your soul!



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


You were reconciled, who once were alienated and enemies....

IF INDEED YOU CONTINUE, AND ARE NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL!

The hope of the Gospel!

The hope of the Gospel is the salvation of your soul!
JLB

Right. Exactly what I believe. Glad to see you agree.

BTW, I hope the "if" clause was noted and understood. "to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith".

IOW, in order to present each believer holy and blameless, they MUST continue in the flesh. That's what the "if" connects. Not salvation.

To be "moved away from the gospel" is to move away from your faith. That will result in not being presented "holy and blameless and above reproach in His sight".

The same concept if found in Eph 1:4, which is what each believer was elected to: that you be holy and blameless.