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Losing Salvation after getting saved?

Jethro Bodine But a born again believer cannot become an unbeliever. That's the part you're not comprehending o sir.
But your counsel does not match what the Bible says:

"13"Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." (Luke 8:13 NASB)


The problem with those who fall away is not that they didn't 'really' have faith, as OSAS teaches. The problem is they had a faith that was not deeply rooted enough to endure to the end.


Once the Holy Spirit reveals himself to you and indwells you,

he doesn't erase himself from your memory or your mind and heart just because you lack faith on Tuesday.
Correct. When we are faithless he is still faithful. But he will leave us if we disown Christ and refuse all opportunities to repent and come back to our senses.
 
Turn back from the living God.

If you turned back FROM the living God, that means you turned to the Living God at some point.

The way my bible tells me that I have been born of God is -

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1

By believing Jesus is the Christ, a person is born of God.


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

JLB

Justifying your beliefs through Hebrews is not accurate.
Sorry, it's been done before.
Being that nobody really knows who wrote the book of Hebrews is sort of a hint.
Apostates are not born again christians. Hebrews 3:12 is about apostasy.

But your counsel does not match what the Bible says:

"13"Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." (Luke 8:13 NASB)


The problem with those who fall away is not that they didn't 'really' have faith, as OSAS teaches. The problem is they had a faith that was not deeply rooted enough to endure to the end.

That's because Luke 8:13 is speaking of apostates, not born again christians.

Correct. When we are faithless he is still faithful. But he will leave us if we disown Christ and refuse all opportunities to repent and come back to our senses.

Again, the word 'disown' does not apply to born again christians.
 
Justifying your beliefs through Hebrews is not accurate.
Sorry, it's been done before.
Being that nobody really knows who wrote the book of Hebrews is sort of a hint.
Apostates are not born again christians. Hebrews 3:12 is about apostasy.



That's because Luke 8:13 is speaking of apostates, not born again christians.



Again, the word 'disown' does not apply to born again christians.


Sorry, your response is not biblical.

You don't just get say what your opinion is about this book or that book of the bible, that's what cults do.

You going to have to discuss the scriptures and compare with scripture, not say say, Luke is this Hebrews is that....

Now, if you want to be taken seriously, then please take the time to look at the scriptures that I am discussing and present your own scriptures.


Once the Holy Spirit indwells you, at that moment you have the right TO BECOME a son of God.

That is what the scripture teaches, brother.


12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: John 1:12

Now starts the process of BECOMING.

Jesus taught us that during this process, there are many things that could make you turn away from the faith.

Persecution, because of the word, for one.

Paul taught it this way -Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

Tell me in your own words what you believe this phrase means to you -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

Do you believe someone can be harden to the point where they no longer believe Jesus is the Messiah, and depart from Him, and turn back to the religion of Judaism, whereby you reject Jesus as Messiah, and the blood He shed on the cross as of no value, And think you are still saved?


This is the context in which this was written!

This was written to Hebrews who had been saved, but were under great persecution to turn back to Judaism.



JLB
 
DRS81 said -

Again, the word 'disown' does not apply to born again christians.

On the contrary , you must own something before you disown.
 
Sorry,

You can't keep ignoring what the scripture teaches -

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

You who were alienated and enemies he will present holy and blameless IF INDEED YOU CONTINUE!
There is nothing here about loss of salvation. Believers who don't continue in the faith will not be presened holy and blameless. The subject in v.22-23 is about being "presented holy and blameless", not about salvation.

You must continue unto the end!
The passage doesn't say anything about continuing unto the end for salvation.

Very simple.
Yes, it is.

If you don't continue, you will be presented UNHOLY in His sight on that Day!
Exactly. And 2 Cor 5:10 will apply.

Are you afraid of engaging any of my points?
 
Sorry, your response is not biblical.

You don't just get say what your opinion is about this book or that book of the bible, that's what cults do.

You going to have to discuss the scriptures and compare with scripture, not say say, Luke is this Hebrews is that....

Then who wrote the book of Hebrews so we can clear that up. No, cults twist the word of God. I'm just simply stating a fact, unless you know who the author is and is not telling us.

Hebrews - Introduction - http://biblia.com/books/esv/Heb
The letter to the Hebrews was written to encourage Christians in a time of trial. It does so by focusing on the absolute supremacy and sufficiency of Jesus Christ. While God spoke in the past “many times and in many ways,” he has now spoken to us “by his Son,” Jesus Christ, who is the “exact imprint” of God’s nature and who “upholds the universe by the word of his power” (1:1–3). Jesus accomplished complete salvation for all who trust in him (1:1–10:18). We dare not “neglect such a great salvation” (2:3; 5:12–6:20; 10:19–39). Rather, in our faith and in our everyday living, we should imitate the example of Christ and of those on the honor roll of faith (chs. 11–13). This letter, whose author is unknown, was probably written between a.d. 60 and 70.

On the contrary , you must own something before you disown.

But God said here after he owns us he cannot disown himself.
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God that is in us...
2 Tim 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.
God loved us before we loved him..1 John 4:19 We love because he first loved us.
 
JLB 2 Tim 2:13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary http://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-13.htm
2:8-13 Let suffering saints remember, and look to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of their faith, who for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despised the shame, and is now set down at the right hand of the throne of God. We must not think it strange if the best men meet with the worst treatment; but this is cheering, that the word of God is not bound. Here we see the real and true cause of the apostle's suffering trouble in, or for, the sake of the gospel. If we are dead to this world, its pleasures, profits, and honours, we shall be for ever with Christ in a better world. He is faithful to his threatenings, and faithful to his promises. This truth makes sure the unbeliever's condemnation, and the believer's salvation.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible http://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-13.htm
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful,.... The Syriac and Ethiopic versions read, "if we believe not him". This may be understood, either of such who are altogether destitute of faith, who do not believe in Christ at all; and particularly do not believe what was just now said concerning his denying such that deny him, but mock and scoff at his coming, and at a future judgment: this unbelief of theirs will not make void his faith or faithfulness; see Romans 3:3, he will abide faithful to his word of threatening; and what he says in Mark 16:16 will be found to be an everlasting truth: or it may be understood of true believers, whose faith sometimes is very low, as to its exercise on Christ, and with reference to their future glory and happiness; but Christ is faithful to all his, covenant engagements for them, to bring them to glory, and to every word of promise concerning their happiness, and to every branch of the faithful saying above mentioned; and he is ever the same in his love to them, and in the efficacy of his blood, righteousness, and sacrifice; and his salvation is an everlasting and unchangeable one; nor do the saints' interest in it, and security by it, depend upon their acts of believing, or their frames, but upon the firmness and unchangeableness of Christ, the object of faith.

He cannot deny himself; he cannot go contrary to his word; that would be to act contrary to his nature and perfections, and would be a denying of himself, which is not possible; wherefore his faithfulness will never fail, even though, the faith of his people does, as to the exercise of it.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary http://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-13.htm
13. believe not—"If we are unbelievers (literally, 'unfaithful'), He remains faithful" (De 7:9, 10). The oldest manuscripts read, "For He cannot (it is an impossibility that He should) deny Himself." He cannot be unfaithful to His word that He will deny those who deny Him, though we be not faithful to our profession of faith in Him (Ro 3:3). Three things are impossible to God, to die, to lie, and to be deceived [Augustine, The Creed, 1.1], (Heb 6:18). This impossibility is not one of infirmity, but of infinite power and majesty. Also, indirectly, comfort is suggested to believers, that He is faithful to His promises to them; at the same time that apostates are shaken out of their self-deceiving fancy, that because they change, Christ similarly may change. A warning to Timothy to be steadfast in the faith.
 
Then who wrote the book of Hebrews so we can clear that up. No, cults twist the word of God. I'm just simply stating a fact, unless you know who the author is and is not telling us.

Hebrews - Introduction - http://biblia.com/books/esv/Heb
The letter to the Hebrews was written to encourage Christians in a time of trial. It does so by focusing on the absolute supremacy and sufficiency of Jesus Christ. While God spoke in the past “many times and in many ways,” he has now spoken to us “by his Son,” Jesus Christ, who is the “exact imprint” of God’s nature and who “upholds the universe by the word of his power” (1:1–3). Jesus accomplished complete salvation for all who trust in him (1:1–10:18). We dare not “neglect such a great salvation” (2:3; 5:12–6:20; 10:19–39). Rather, in our faith and in our everyday living, we should imitate the example of Christ and of those on the honor roll of faith (chs. 11–13). This letter, whose author is unknown, was probably written between a.d. 60 and 70.


The Holy Spirit.


The Holy Spirit through the unknown writer of the book of Hebrews taught it this way -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

Tell me in your own words what you believe this phrase means to you -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

Do you believe someone can be harden to the point where they no longer believe Jesus is the Messiah, and depart from Him, and turn back to the religion of Judaism, whereby you reject Jesus as Messiah, and the blood He shed on the cross as of no value, And think you are still saved?


This is the context in which this was written!

This was written to Hebrews who had been saved, but were under great persecution to turn back to Judaism.


This would apply to all - For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.


JLB
 
We sure are trying hard to believe in OSAS, aren't we? I admit, it's a wonderful concept and I wish it were true, but in taking it seriously and reading the scriptures...I find myself sgreeing with brothers JLB and Jethro Bodine.

Let me ask you proponants of the OSAS view...if it's so easy to get saved and remain saved with no worry about ever losing our salvation...then what exactly is it, that we are instructed to hold to the end? To be "overcomers" of. What's to be overcome if we are OSAS?

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son./
 
This was written to Hebrews who had been saved, but were under great persecution to turn back to Judaism.

This would apply to all - For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.

But the Hebrews and the born again church are not the same. The church of Israel and born again christians are not the same. I feel like you contradicted yourself here, which one is it?

We sure are trying hard to believe in OSAS, aren't we? I admit, it's a wonderful concept and I wish it were true, but in taking it seriously and reading the scriptures...I find myself sgreeing with brothers JLB and Jethro Bodine.

Let me ask you proponants of the OSAS view...if it's so easy to get saved and remain saved with no worry about ever losing our salvation...then what exactly is it, that we are instructed to hold to the end? To be "overcomers" of. What's to be overcome if we are OSAS?

Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son./

Rev 21:7 is a vision about who will enter into the New Earth, born again christians vs nonbelievers.
He is simply describing who will be there.
We overcame death at the cross when we accepted Jesus as Lord.

Rev 21:7-8 Those [BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS] who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars [NONBELIEVERS]—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
 
But the Hebrews and the born again church are not the same. The church of Israel and born again christians are not the same. I feel like you contradicted yourself here, which one is it?



Rev 21:7 is a vision about who will enter into the New Earth, born again christians vs nonbelievers.
He is simply describing who will be there.
We overcame death at the cross when we accepted Jesus as Lord.

Rev 21:7-8 Those [BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS] who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars [NONBELIEVERS]—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

There's nothing to overcome the way you describe it. Just say the sinners prayer and you're good with no worries. I don't buy that.
 
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. and that's it? Then you can go on with your sinful life and lusts of the flesh with no worries of hellfire?
 
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. and that's it? Then you can go on with your sinful life and lusts of the flesh with no worries of hellfire?

John 8:11 "No, Lord," she said. And Jesus said, "Neither do I. Go and sin no more."
 
But the Hebrews and the born again church are not the same. The church of Israel and born again christians are not the same. I feel like you contradicted yourself here, which one is it?



Rev 21:7 is a vision about who will enter into the New Earth, born again christians vs nonbelievers.
He is simply describing who will be there.
We overcame death at the cross when we accepted Jesus as Lord.

Rev 21:7-8 Those [BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS] who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars [NONBELIEVERS]—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

Hebrews that have been
saved or Gentiles who have been saved are all saved the same way.

The church of Israel and born again christians are not the same

I don't find a church of Israel in scripture.

Please explain.


JLB
 
I don't find a church of Israel in scripture. Please explain.

Hebrews 3 is all about Israel inside the wilderness not obtaining the promised land. They were slaves in Egypt, but God set them free. God did many powerful works to make the king let them go. God then promised to lead them as a nation to a new land. To receive the promises of God they had to put their trust in him. They failed to do this, for they did not accept the word of God. It was for this reason that they died in the desert and did not go into the new land. Hebrews 3 is about hearing God's voice and obeying, it has nothing to do with losing your salvation. Rather we lose rewards at the Bema seat. That's it.

...and if you don't?

Then repent and turn back to God.
 
Hebrews 3 is all about Israel inside the wilderness not obtaining the promised land. They were slaves in Egypt, but God set them free. God did many powerful works to make the king let them go. God then promised to lead them as a nation to a new land. To receive the promises of God they had to put their trust in him. They failed to do this, for they did not accept the word of God. It was for this reason that they died in the desert and did not go into the new land. Hebrews 3 is about hearing God's voice and obeying, it has nothing to do with losing your salvation. Rather we lose rewards at the Bema seat. That's it.



Then repent and turn back to God.

Yes the book of Hebrews was certainly written to Hebrews who understood the Old Testament scriptures.

These Hebrew converts were given rich insight into how all the OT scriptures pointed to Christ, so that under great persecution they would be established in the faith.

Please explain this Church of Israel you mentioned, and how it is different from the Church of Jesus Christ.


JLB
 
Yes the book of Hebrews was certainly written to Hebrews who understood the Old Testament scriptures.

These Hebrew converts were given rich insight into how all the OT scriptures pointed to Christ, so that under great persecution they would be established in the faith.

Correct, but it has nothing to do with losing your salvation. That's a different topic.

Please explain this Church of Israel you mentioned, and how it is different from the Church of Jesus Christ.

Have you ever heard of replacement theology.
 
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