You can't use 'saved people are saved and, therefore, can't deny Christ and lose their salvation' as the answer to whether saved people can deny Christ and lose their salvation, the topic of debate.
Hi Jethro. How are you my friend, are you excited about fall?
Ok, let's take a look at the definitions of 'faithless' and 'disown' to see if they are the same. Notice the word 'faithless' is an adjective, and the word 'disown' is a verb. An adjective is a word or phrase naming an attribute, added to or grammatically related to a noun to modify or describe it. A verb is a word used to describe an action, state, or occurrence, and forming the main part of the predicate of a sentence, such as
hear,
become,
happen.
faithless / adjective
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faithless?s=t
1. not adhering to allegiance, promises, vows, or duty:
the faithless behavior of Benedict Arnold.
2. not trustworthy; unreliable.
3. without trust or belief.
4. being without religious faith.
5. (among Christians) bereft of Christian faith.
disown - verb (used with object)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disown?s=t
1. to refuse to acknowledge as belonging or pertaining to oneself; deny the ownership of or responsibility for; repudiate; renounce: to disown one's heirs; to disown a published statement.
Now, I want to bring something to your attention here. Notice in verse 12 and 13 he uses the word 'disown' twice, using the word in two different ways. In verse 12 he says Jesus will disown us, and then verse 13 he says he cannot disown himself. Why did he do this. This is not a contradiction as many would believe. Let's take a look at this closer, is he describing two different circumstances here?
2 Tim 2:11-13
11Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we
disown him,
he will also
disown us;
13if we are
faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot
disown himself.
It's important to take this scripture figuratively and not literally. I will show you why. Since there is no contradiction with the word 'disown' then the only answer is that scripture is speaking of two different people, born again believers vs apostates/nonbelievers/religious christians. If you take this as literal and that a born again christian can disown God, then it is saying that God can in fact disown himself. But it doesn't say that, it says God (cannot) disown himself. Why can't God disown himself you ask? Because when Jesus died on the cross his sacrifice was forever, he died for all sins. When the Holy Spirit indwells a believer, he will never leave them. Notice the word 'forever' and 'in you' here.... John 14:16-18 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you
and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you
and will be in you.
Now, let's go back to the definitions. Verse 12 uses the words 'disown and disown'. Verse 13 uses the words 'faithless and disown'. These two verses are describing two different circumstances. 'Faithless' is an adjective and 'Disown' is a verb. 'Faithless' is describing the condition of the heart, and 'Disown' is describing the
action taken BY the condition of the heart. It's impossible for a born again christian to not acknowledge that a God exists, he's already been sealed with the Holy Spirit forever. It's impossible for a born again christian to disown one's heirs. Notice in the word 'disown', it says to disown one's heirs. When you are sealed in Christ, you are joined into an heir. (Romans 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.)
A born again christian can be faithless but never disown God. That just means he has trust issues during his walk with Jesus, but the Holy Spirit being the helper helps him in his trust issues. This is one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit, to help us.
heir -
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heir?s=t
1.a person who inherits or has a right of inheritance in the property of another following the latter's death.
2.Law. (in common law) a person who inherits all the property of a deceased person, as by descent, relationship, will, or legal process. Civil Law. a person who legally succeeds to the place of a deceased person and assumes the rights and obligations of the deceased, as the liabilities for debts or the possessory rights to property.
3. a person who inherits or is entitled to inherit the rank, title, position, etc., of another.
4. a person or group considered as inheriting the tradition, talent, etc., of a predecessor.
inherit -
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inherit?s=t
1. to take or receive (property, a right, a title, etc.) by succession or will, as an heir:
to inherit the family business.
2. to receive as if by succession from predecessors:
the problems the new government inherited from its predecessors.
3. to receive (a genetic character) by the transmission of hereditary factors.
4. to succeed (a person) as heir.
5. to receive as one's portion; come into possession of:
to inherit his brother's old clothes.