Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[JLB]

Poster JLB please answer me honestly ?

"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'

Would it do Him any good to encourage you with these words, if it was ISIS who was about to behead you unless you renounced Jesus Christ as Lord, and converted to Islam?

However, persecution has begun in America and will only increase until His Coming.

Do you believe you could renounce Jesus Christ in the face of torture and death, and convert to Islam and think you were ever saved ?

You beleive you were converted to Christ, if you turn away from Christ in the face of death and convert to Islam by which you must declare Allah as your Lord, do you honestly believe you were ever saved ?

Please answer Yes or No.

John said you never were !!!


1Jn 2:19 KJV They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Please consider this carefully !!!

The answer to my question that I asked Chessman is - No.

What you are attempting to do, by bringing in another scripture that describes another condition which John describes as "Went out from us", proving they were not of us...

If John says they were not of us... Then we believe what the scripture says!

This is similar to your other example of using Matthew 7 and the phrase "I never knew you".

Revelation 12:8-11 does not describe either of these conditions.

8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,'These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." Revelation 2:8-11

He who has an ear, let him hear what The Spirit says to the churches...

This phrase is an encouragement and warning to all Churches.


10Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.


If you can find within this letter to the Church at Smyrna, in verse 8-11, any indication of Jesus warning them about "going out from them" because "they were not of them", then please point it out and we can discuss it.


JLB

 

[Gregg]

He who has an ear, let him hear what The Spirit says to the churches...

This phrase is an encouragement and warning to all Churches.

Rather, it is an 'imperative' to those who have spiritual ears . . . to hear what the Spirit 'says' to the Churches.

 

[JLB]

Rather, it is an 'imperative' to those who have spiritual ears . . . to hear what the Spirit 'says' to the Churches.

What would your answer be to this same question?

Do you believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of torture and death, and convert to Islam and still expect to be saved?

Yes or No?


JLB

 

[anonymous]

(Post removed. ToS 2.4 personal attack against those of the opposing view. Rudeness. Obadiah.)

 

[chessman]

Brother, Please answer me honestly?

I did. I am serious. As serious as one can be about a text message from The Holy Spirit. A crown of life is not the same thing as eternal life, Oh, and I have the Holy Spirit inside of me. No need for a text message over the phone circuits.

Are you aware that in Heaven some people will have more reward(s) and rule over angels more than others will, depending on their good/bad deeds? "Deeds" such as the confidence in the Gospel message they share with others. Deeds such as standing firm upon the Gospel even when faced with afflictions, poverty, prison and even death because of the Gospel. AND 'deeds' such as not being afraid of death, prison, poverty and affliction.

I've understood you in the past to say you've shared the Gospel to a part of the world where there is a high percentage of the population that would just as soon behead you for doing that as not. Good on you. You've met the criteria for a crown in your afterlife, evidently. But how about the saved thief on the cross? He did little yet was saved.

Or as you point out, Americans that 'fear' loosing their tax exemption as the worse possible affliction they could ever face? Or the poverty they'd be in if their a/c unit went out.

But the point of Rev 2 is:

Do not be afraid of the things which you are about to suffer. ... prison ... affliction ... (Death)...Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.​

It is NOT:

Do not be afraid of the things which you are about to suffer. ... [Loosing your salvation, rejecting Christ] ... Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.​

Oh, and again, the text does not say that is a 'warning'. It never even uses the word warning. I expect to go into the afterlife with a baseball cap versus a crown (unless I face more of an affliction test than I have so far, which ain't much). We'll see.

Do you believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of torture and death, and convert to Islam and still expect to be saved?

No, I don't believe any (not one single person) who avoids the second death will do as they stand before The Judge of their hearts rejecting/renouncing Jesus Christ in their hearts and expect to avoid the LoF. But I bet you there will be some scaredy cats of affliction in heaven.

Where in the world do you find anything about 'rejecting Christ' in Rev 2's, "Be faithful until death"? Jesus is talking about, well, what it says He's talking about. Not being afraid of death, poverty, affliction and prison.

He could have said (did really, in my opinion);
be faith until prison ... to some

Be faithful until poverty... to some

Be faithful until slander... to those most afraid.

It's a very, very rare few that could do what the 12 called apostles did.

It's a very rare few that could face death by ISIS without fear. (JLB, maybe. I don't mean that sarcasticly. I mean any missionary to north Africa is a brave Christian IMO)

It's a rare few that could face poverty because of The Gospel without fear. (chessman, maybe)

There are a few that can face slander without fear. (Many Christians, really. As long as it's not too bad or effect their income too much, they do fine.)

Most American Christians fear ridicule over their belief in The Gospel by others. Or even a funny stare at their cross jewelry.

But my point is that if Jesus told them they have eternal life with Him upon their acceptance of Him, He meant it. He never said they'd necessarily have eternal life with crowns ruling over angels though.

He in no way shape or form thinks the Smyrna people (the ones that are placed in prison) will "reject Christ", either. He doesn't test beyond what He knows they can pass, is Scriptural you know.

That's the answer to my question; Why some? That you avoided answering. Why only some there get sent to prison and even death and some others simply face poverty and others merely slander (like present day America).

 

[chessman]

If you can find within this letter to the Church at Smyrna, in verse 8-11, any indication of Jesus warning them about "going out from them" because "they were not of them", then please point it out and we can discuss it.

that's the point. Unless you inject there in Rev 2:8-11 a "renouncing of Christ" into that text, it's foreign to that particular text. Then don't do it.

You got any idea of how contradictory it is then for you to do that very thing?

Do you believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of torture and death, and convert to Islam and still expect to be saved?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You beleive you were converted to Christ, if you turn away from Christ in the face of death and convert to Islam by which you must declare Allah as your Lord, do you honestly believe you were ever saved ?

Please answer Yes or No.

John said you never were !!!


1Jn 2:19 KJV They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Please consider this carefully !!!

The mistake you're making is thinking John is writing a hard and fast truth that says anyone who departs from your ministry was never saved to begin with. If that's true then John Mark, Barnabas's nephew, was never really saved to begin with--no exceptions allowed--when he left Paul's ministry "to return to Jerusalem" (Acts 13:13 NASB), and "had not continued with them in the work" (Acts 15:37-38 NASB), even though Barnabas argued with Paul to let him come with them on their second missionary journey. Please consider this carefully.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

that's the point. Unless you inject there in Rev 2:8-11 a "renouncing of Christ" into that text, it's foreign to that particular text. Then don't do it.

You got any idea of how contradictory it is then for you to do that very thing?

It's interesting how being faithful unto death in the message to the Pergamumites meant not denying the name of Christ, but being faithful unto death three verses before that in the message to the Smyrnaites can't possibly mean that.

Talk about contradictions.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A crown of life is not the same thing as eternal life...

Are you aware that in Heaven some people will have more reward(s) and rule over angels more than others will, depending on their good/bad deeds? "Deeds" such as the confidence in the Gospel message they share with others. Deeds such as standing firm upon the Gospel even when faced with afflictions, poverty, prison and even death because of the Gospel. AND 'deeds' such as not being afraid of death, prison, poverty and affliction.

If this is true, then don't you think Jesus should have said 'crown of glory' instead (1 Peter 5:4,2-4 NASB)? As you can see, you're interpretation is not consistent with scripture.

But at least I see you agreeing that 'being faithful until death and I'll give you the crown of life' also means that 'if you're not faithful unto death you won't get the crown of life'. The sad part is you're now trying to define 'crown of life' to preserve a doctrine of OSAS, but have chosen a definition that is not consistent with the rest of scripture.

 

[JLB]

I did. I am serious. As serious as one can be about a text message from The Holy Spirit. A crown of life is not the same thing as eternal life, Oh, and I have the Holy Spirit inside of me. No need for a text message over the phone circuits.

Are you aware that in Heaven some people will have more reward(s) and rule over angels more than others will, depending on their good/bad deeds? "Deeds" such as the confidence in the Gospel message they share with others. Deeds such as standing firm upon the Gospel even when faced with afflictions, poverty, prison and even death because of the Gospel. AND 'deeds' such as not being afraid of death, prison, poverty and affliction.

I've understood you in the past to say you've shared the Gospel to a part of the world where there is a high percentage of the population that would just as soon behead you for doing that as not. Good on you. You've met the criteria for a crown in your afterlife, evidently. But how about the saved thief on the cross? He did little yet was saved.

Or as you point out, Americans that 'fear' loosing their tax exemption as the worse possible affliction they could ever face? Or the poverty they'd be in if their a/c unit went out.

But the point of Rev 2 is:

Do not be afraid of the things which you are about to suffer. ... prison ... affliction ... (Death)...Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.​

It is NOT:

Do not be afraid of the things which you are about to suffer. ... [Loosing your salvation, rejecting Christ] ... Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.​

Oh, and again, the text does not say that is a 'warning'. It never even uses the word warning. I expect to go into the afterlife with a baseball cap versus a crown (unless I face more of an affliction test than I have so far, which ain't much). We'll see.


No, I don't believe any (not one single person) who avoids the second death will do as they stand before The Judge of their hearts rejecting/renouncing Jesus Christ in their hearts and expect to avoid the LoF. But I bet you there will be some scaredy cats of affliction in heaven.

Where in the world do you find anything about 'rejecting Christ' in Rev 2's, "Be faithful until death"? Jesus is talking about, well, what it says He's talking about. Not being afraid of death, poverty, affliction and prison.

He could have said (did really, in my opinion);
be faith until prison ... to some

Be faithful until poverty... to some

Be faithful until slander... to those most afraid.

It's a very, very rare few that could do what the 12 called apostles did.

It's a very rare few that could face death by ISIS without fear. (JLB, maybe. I don't mean that sarcasticly. I mean any missionary to north Africa is a brave Christian IMO)

It's a rare few that could face poverty because of The Gospel without fear. (chessman, maybe)

There are a few that can face slander without fear. (Many Christians, really. As long as it's not too bad or effect their income too much, they do fine.)

Most American Christians fear ridicule over their belief in The Gospel by others. Or even a funny stare at their cross jewelry.

But my point is that if Jesus told them they have eternal life with Him upon their acceptance of Him, He meant it. He never said they'd necessarily have eternal life with crowns ruling over angels though.

He in no way shape or form thinks the Smyrna people (the ones that are placed in prison) will "reject Christ", either. He doesn't test beyond what He knows they can pass, is Scriptural you know.

That's the answer to my question; Why some? That you avoided answering. Why only some there get sent to prison and even death and some others simply face poverty and others merely slander (like present day America).

JLB said -

Do you believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of torture and death, and convert to Islam, by confessing Allah as your Lord, and still expect to be saved?

Chessman said -

No ...

Thank you brother. You are coming into a scriptural understanding of what the Apostles and New Testament Churches faced and the reality of their warnings and encouragements to believers during that time.


You are now officially out of the OSAS camp.


Bless you.


JLB

 

[anonymous]

Edited by Reba.....You are not Jesus.... .
1.3 . . . of the TOS If a member disagrees with a Moderator's action, they are not to take their dispute public.

 

[Gregg]

What would your answer be to this same question?

Do you believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of torture and death, and convert to Islam and still expect to be saved?

Yes or No?

JLB

You are still chasing your tail, caught up in an endless circle.

 

[chessman]

The Biblical narrative ends with Revelation. How can I possibly share from the Bible something from a period of time that is not covered by the Bible?

Umm, you could use one of the many prophecies Jesus shares with us in the Bible. My favorites are the ones where He prophecies that all that believe in Him in the past/present and future have eternal life in the present. And the one where He prophecies that every person that He sends to the LoF "He never" knew them.

"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes ___?____ will not be hurt by the second death.'" (Revelation 2:10-11 NASB)
Are you insisting that Jesus is saying, "be faithful, or be unfaithful, it doesn't matter, I'm giving you the crown of life anyway. And, overcome, or don't overcome, it doesn't matter, you're not going to be hurt by the second death either way."

No, I'm not saying or insisting that. Thanks for asking.

"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes ___?____ will not be hurt by the second death.'" (Revelation 2:10-11 NASB)​

I am saying and insisting on using the message in it's context from Rev 2:8-12 to decide what goes in the blank above. I am saying that what Jesus is telling them to overcome is the fear of death; He said "do not be afraid", not me. He said overcome the fear ("Do not be afraid of..." death, affliction, prison, poverty, slander). Not so much overcoming a "rejection of Christ". You inject that into this Text because you like to use it to teach anti-OSAS.

I have and continue to point out that my position is Biblically based on the text there in Rev 2 where as yours simply circularly assumes that Jesus was warning them to overcome rejection of Him. Which are words NOT in the Text.

So, you're saying that even if I don't remain faithful until death and don't overcome, denying Christ, I still get to have the salvation that I received by acknowledging, not denying, the name of Christ?

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. That's you saying that.

If thinking grace allows us to sin, how is that not making grace a license to sin, instead of grace being a license to be holy?

You and the other anti-OSAS persons/posters are the only persons I know that thinks OSAS is a teaching about grace being a license to sin. That's grace, not Grace. And it's spewed by the anti-OSAS side, never any honest OSAS theologian. Which is why you shrug off the challenge made to you to quote an OSAS theologian that taught OSAS as a license to sin. You make that up and accuse people of it, just like you made up that I am "saying that even if I don't remain faithful until death and don't overcome, denying Christ, I still get to have the salvation". And I'm right here in front of you telling you over and over, that's not what I'm saying yet you continue to accuse me of it. (Edited, ToS 2.4, personal attack. Obadiah.)

Yes....unsaved by caving in under the duress of imprisonment and, thus, denying Christ and the faith.

Can you simply quote the words warning or "denying Christ" in Rev 2:8-11. I directly asked you this before and you reposted a Scripture that does NOT have the words "warning" or "denying Christ" in them. You simply re-posted more of your words that circularly assume that's what Jesus meant.

I'm surprised that you do not understand what logical negation is. If I tell you you can drive my car if you do your homework that obviously means you can not drive my car if you do not do your homework.

Umm. No it doesn't. If you told me; IF I do my homework I can drive your car ELSE you cannot drive your car, then that's logical. It handles both cases (IF and ELSE). Your case is incomplete logic and would not be allowed within any logical argument or a computer code.

Saying IF I do my homework I can drive your car DOES NOT negate me being able to drive your car by all sorts of other methods unless someone explicitly excludes all other methods. It logical that I could talk you into driving your by mowing the grass for you, by purchasing your car, by stealing your car, etc. That's what I was pointing out to you earlier. You really, really don't understand logic or how a computer works.

Then prove to me that when someone says, "you can have a piece of pie if you eat your dinner" that in no way means you will not get a piece of pie if you don't eat your dinner.

Easy, I obtain a piece of pie through sneaking in the kitchen at night and eating it anyway. You don't think these things through very well and refuse to see Rev 2:8-11 as anything other than an anti-OSAS passage.

 

[JLB]

You are still chasing your tail, caught up in an endless circle.

Why do you consider this question to be chasing my tail?

Do you believe you can renounce Jesus Christ in the face of torture and death, and convert to Islam, by confessing Allah as your Lord, and still expect to be saved?

If you truly believe in OSAS, then this should be an easy simple question for you to answer.


I think honestly, their would be many young people in the Church today, considering what is taking place in the USA in the way of growing persecution of those who believe in Jesus Christ and the Word of God, as well as the current JIHAD movement in the Middle east, who need to hear the truth about these things that will have a direct outcome on our eternal life.


If a high school youth group asked you this question, what would be your answer?

If your son or daughter asked you this question, what would be your answer?

Would you tell the youth at your church, if they asked you this question, would it be the answer you just gave me -"You are still chasing your tail, caught up in an endless circle".

Dont they deserve an honest answer?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Chessman said -

Umm, you could use one of the many prophecies Jesus shares with us in the Bible. My favorites are the ones where He prophecies that all that believe in Him in the past/present and future have eternal life in the present. And the one where He prophecies that every person that He sends to the LoF "He never" knew them.

Please give the chapter and verse you are referring to. We have seen several cases where people have mixed together two different set of circumstances to try and dilute the truth.

Please give the chapter and verse to establish context, in this very controversial subject.

Yes those who NEVER KNEW THEM, He said to them... depart from Me!

23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' 24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall." 28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, 29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes. Matthew 7:23-29

Do what His word says is the key!


JLB

 

[JLB]

Chessman said -

No, I'm not saying or insisting that. Thanks for asking.

"Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes ___?____ will not be hurt by the second death.'" (Revelation 2:10-11 NASB)

I am saying and insisting on using the message in it's context from Rev 2:8-12 to decide what goes in the blank above. I am saying that what Jesus is telling them to overcome is the fear of death; He said "do not be afraid", not me. He said overcome the fear ("Do not be afraid of..." death, affliction, prison, poverty, slander). Not so much overcoming a "rejection of Christ". You inject that into this Text because you like to use it to teach anti-OSAS.

I have and continue to point out that my position is Biblically based on the text there in Rev 2 where as yours simply circularly assumes that Jesus was warning them to overcome rejection of Him. Which are words NOT in the Text.

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." ' Revelation 2:10 NKJV

10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.Revelation 2:10-11 NIV


These were encouraged by the Lord, to be faithful until death...

Faithful to Who?

Please explain what you yourself understand this phrase to mean... faithful until death.


Why were they in prison? ...the devil is about to throw some of you into prison...

Jesus equates their being faithful until death, with overcoming the fear of death, which will prevent them from being hurt by the second death.


The Devil wants to stop the spread of the Gospel by those whom Jesus has saved.

He will test those whom Jesus has saved.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9


Be faithful until the end, and I will give you the Crown of Life.


JLB

 

[chessman]

Please give the chapter and verse you are referring to.

actually, I was referring to:

Ps 101 I will sing of loyal love and justice;I will sing praises to you, O Yahweh. I will give attention to the way of integrity.When will you come to me?I will walk in the integrity of my heart in the midst of my house. I will not set before my eyes any wicked thing.I hate the work of those who fall away;it will not cling to me. A perverse heart will depart from me;I will not know evil. One who slanders his neighbor in secret,him I will destroy.One haughty of eyes and arrogant of heart,him I will not endure. My eyes will be on the faithful of the land,that they may live with me.He who walks in the way of integrity,he shall minister to me. There will not live in the midst of my house a worker of deceit.One who speaks lies will not remain before my eyes. Each morning,I will destroy all the wicked of the land,cutting off from the city of Yahweh all evildoers. ​

Such that since God knows the hearts of His house and His loyal love protects them (past, present and future) it seems illogical to me for any future worker of evil to ever be inside God's house to begin with. A lot of people are deceived, however, into thinking they are saved when in reality they really are not. They have a perverse heart and will depart from God. The OSAS 'camp' is based on God's loyal love and justice, not man's.

 

[JLB]

actually, I was referring to:

Ps 101 I will sing of loyal love and justice;I will sing praises to you, O Yahweh. I will give attention to the way of integrity.When will you come to me?I will walk in the integrity of my heart in the midst of my house. I will not set before my eyes any wicked thing.I hate the work of those who fall away;it will not cling to me. A perverse heart will depart from me;I will not know evil. One who slanders his neighbor in secret,him I will destroy.One haughty of eyes and arrogant of heart,him I will not endure. My eyes will be on the faithful of the land,that they may live with me.He who walks in the way of integrity,he shall minister to me. There will not live in the midst of my house a worker of deceit.One who speaks lies will not remain before my eyes. Each morning,I will destroy all the wicked of the land,cutting off from the city of Yahweh all evildoers. ​

Such that since God knows the hearts of His house and His loyal love protects them (past, present and future) it seems illogical to me for any future worker of evil to ever be inside God's house to begin with. A lot of people are deceived, however, into thinking they are saved when in reality they really are not. They have a perverse heart and will depart from God. The OSAS 'camp' is based on God's loyal love and justice, not man's.

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 2 Timothy 2:19-22


JLB

 

[chessman]

I sang the following hymn in worship this AM (and meant it, all of it):

1. There’s not a friend like the lowly Jesus,
   No, not one! No, not one!
   None else could heal all our soul’s diseases,
   No, not one! No, not one!
   • Refrain:
     Jesus knows all about our struggles,
     He will guide till the day is done;
     There’s not a friend like the lowly Jesus,
     No, not one! No, not one!
2. No friend like Him is so high and holy,
   No, not one! No, not one!
   And yet no friend is so meek and lowly,
   No, not one! No, not one!
3. There’s not an hour that He is not near us,
   No, not one! No, not one!
   No night so dark but His love can cheer us,
   No, not one! No, not one!
4. Did ever saint find this Friend forsake him?
   No, not one! No, not one!
   Or sinner find that He would not take him?
   No, not one! No, not one!
5. Was e’er a gift like the Savior given?
   No, not one! No, not one!
   Will He refuse us a home in heaven?
   No, not one! No, not one!

Mr. Oatman based his hymn on the following Scriptures:

Deut 31:8 Yahweh is the one going before you; he will be with you, and he will not leave you alone, and he will not forsake you; you shall not be afraid, and you shall not be discouraged.”

John 15:15Lexham English Bible (LEB)
15 No longer do I call you slaves, because the slave does not know what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything that I have heard from my Father I have revealed to you.

Proverbs 18:24Lexham English Bible (LEB)
24 A man of many friends will come to ruin,
but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.
​

 

[JLB]

I sang the following hymn in worship this AM (and meant it, all of it):

1. There’s not a friend like the lowly Jesus,
   No, not one! No, not one!
   None else could heal all our soul’s diseases,
   No, not one! No, not one!
   • Refrain:
     Jesus knows all about our struggles,
     He will guide till the day is done;
     There’s not a friend like the lowly Jesus,
     No, not one! No, not one!
2. No friend like Him is so high and holy,
   No, not one! No, not one!
   And yet no friend is so meek and lowly,
   No, not one! No, not one!
3. There’s not an hour that He is not near us,
   No, not one! No, not one!
   No night so dark but His love can cheer us,
   No, not one! No, not one!
4. Did ever saint find this Friend forsake him?
   No, not one! No, not one!
   Or sinner find that He would not take him?
   No, not one! No, not one!
5. Was e’er a gift like the Savior given?
   No, not one! No, not one!
   Will He refuse us a home in heaven?
   No, not one! No, not one!

Mr. Oatman based his hymn on the following Scriptures:

Deut 31:8 Yahweh is the one going before you; he will be with you, and he will not leave you alone, and he will not forsake you; you shall not be afraid, and you shall not be discouraged.”

John 15:15Lexham English Bible (LEB)
15 No longer do I call you slaves, because the slave does not know what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because everything that I have heard from my Father I have revealed to you.

Proverbs 18:24Lexham English Bible (LEB)
24 A man of many friends will come to ruin,
but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.
​

Quoting Hymn's isnt going to change the clear and eternal truth's that have been presented from God's Word.


JLB