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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Luke 21:20-24 and 70 A.D.
- Thread starter Quantrill
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- Jul 13, 2012
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The reasons you have given are not scriptural. They are not the context of a His teaching to His disciples.
It refers to the end of the age because that is the context of Jesus’s teaching when He begin teaching His disciples privately on the Mount of Olives.
Jesus is teaching from Zechariah 14, which I have shown to be the coming of the Lord when He physically returns with His saints, and fights against the armies gathered around Jerusalem.
You have “inserted” a narrative into the context of the end of the age that contextually doesn’t belong.
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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Amen.
So then you see that everything He taught beyond verse three pertains to the coming of the Lord and the end of the age just as Zechariah 14 prophesied.
JLB
- Thread starter
- #24
Pay attention and quit ignoring what I said. (Luke 21:20-24) is speaking of 70 A.D. You keep wanting to go back to (Matt. 24). That is not the reference. (Matt.) is speaking of the Tribulation period in the end times. But (Luke 21:20-24) is not.
(Luke 21:20-24) is speaking of 70 A.D. for the reasons I have already given. And which you ignore.
Quantrill
- Jul 13, 2012
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- Jul 13, 2012
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Its not. You just keep ignoring Zechariah 14.
Luke 21 is the same thing as Matthew 24.
You are trying to read into Luke 21 something different.
Its not.
- Thread starter
- #27
Funny, I gave Scripture for the reasons. Since did you worry about context?
You're arguing from (Matt.) Not (Luke). And you ignore the reasons I gave in (Luke).
(Zechariah) doesn't matter. I am not saying the end time events won't occur. I am saying (Luke 21:20-24) speaks to 70 A.D.
I haven't 'inserted' anything. And I have stayed with the context.
Quantrill
- Jul 13, 2012
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There the same thing.
Matthew recorded his version and Luke recorded his.
Here is another example of Jesus teaching the same thing and Matthew records it with his language and Luke records it with his.
It’s the same teaching about the same thing but looks so different.
Matthew —
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21
Luke —
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13
Both of these passages are teaching exactly the same thing.
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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I don’t ignore. I disagree.
Read Zechariah 14 and acknowledge that there are armies that surround Jerusalem.
Do you see that?
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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It doesn’t. It’s concerns the end of the age which is clearly laid out in Zechariah 14, complete with the Day of the Lord, the armies that surround Jerusalem, The saints that return with the Lord at the resurrection.
You have just never had anyone point these things out before and you make the mistake of not understanding the narrative thing Luke is taking about one event and Matthew another.
The armies surrounding Jerusalem is directly associated with the coming of the a Lord.
Read it for yourself.
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
Luke 21:20-28
You can not divorce the armies surrounding Jerusalem from the coming of the Lord and the end of the age and the resurrection.
It’s plainly contextually linked together.
JLB
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- Thread starter
- #34
Nothing is said about armies surrounding Jerusalem. All nations come against Jerusalem and overrun it. Which results in the Second Coming of Christ. (Zech. 14:2-3)
In (Luke 21:24) the end result is the Jews are led away captive and the 'Times of the Gentiles' continues on. But in (Zech. 14) the 'Times of the Gentiles' ends.
Again, I am not saying that (Matt.), (Mark), and (Luke) are not discussing the end time events that involve the Second Coming. They certainly are. But (Luke) in (21:20-24) is addressing 70 A.D.
As I said in post #(1), the destruction of the Temple in question must be answered. And that answer must involve 70 A.D.
Quantrill
- Thread starter
- #35
The return of Christ is addressed in (Luke 21:25-28). But that is after the 'Times of the Gentiles' is fulfilled. (21:24)
Again, as I said in post #(1) there are two sieges in view. One pertains to 70 A.D. One pertains to the final siege resulting in the Second Coming.
(Luke 21:20-24) pertains to 70 A.D. for the reasons given.
Quantrill
- Jul 13, 2012
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Luke 21:20-28 addresses the end of the age, when the armies of the nations that the Lord gathers around Jerusalem just before the coming of the Lord.
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:1-3
Jesus Himself fights against the armies at His Coming.
This is the context of Luke 21:20-28
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” Luke 21:20-28
By saying “And”, Jesus is connecting what He just said with what He is about to say. “And” is a conjunction that connect two paragraphs.
“They“ in verse 27 refers to the people He just mentioned which include the armies that surround Jerusalem at that time, the time of His coming just as Zechariah points out.
You can not divorce Luke 21:20-24 from verses 25-28.
Zechariah shows the whole chain of events, the armies surrounding Jerusalem at the time of the coming of the Lord.
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem...
Zechariah 14:1-2
You can deny it all you want but the word is clear.
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
Case closed.
- Jul 13, 2012
- 39,789
- 8,320
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
Zechariah 14:1-2
“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” Luke 21:20-18
The armies that surround Jerusalem will see the coming of the Lord.
Here is what they will experience, when they see Him.
And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12
Did this happen in 70AD?
For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
Luke 21:22-23
- But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Luke 21
This is referring to the great tribulation which is exactly what He said in Matthew.
- But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! Matthew 24
“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21
JLB
The 2nd coming will be the timing of the 1st resurrection. A 1st century resurrection is not a possible answer. Rev 11 has God's two witnesses testifying in the city where their Lord was crucified for 1260 days as I read. No power or army can stop them until after their testimony has been completed. The beast is the one who is allowed by God to overpower and kill them. The beast is now revealed to the world and is in Jerusalem. The reign of that beast is 42 months. Jesus and His armies defeat that beast and those that follow the beast at the great battle of God almighty. REV 16:15 Just as was presented to you in this thread the mount of olives is split in two to make a way of escape from those surrounding armies. Armies that are destroyed by the Lord not mankind. Zach 14 That didn't take place in AD 70. Its yet to come.
Rev 11 is a sign that can't be mistaken.
The bowl judgments are the judgments that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness. They are the last of Gods wrath as noted in Rev 15 and Rev 16.
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