Luke 21:20-24 and 70 A.D.

[for_his_glory]

That's right. And that time was what Jesus was alluding to in answering the disciples question. See. (Luke 21:20-24).

Quantrill

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Daniel 9:26; Zechariah 14:1; Matthew 24:15-21; Mark 13:14-19; Luke 21:20-24; Rev 20:7-9 is speaking about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem that happened in 70AD that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:2 as the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem that day. But also prophetic in the destruction of the temple of God being those/we that have the Spirit of God that indwells us, 1 Corinthians 3:16, as the last battle will be on the last day when Jesus returns and plants His feet on the very mount from where He first spoke of the destruction of the literal and also Spiritual Temple of God.

I already explained in post # 13 the final battle being that of the battle of Armageddon where the armies of Satan will surround the camp of the saints trying for the last time to destroy them, Rev 20:7-10.

 

[for_his_glory]

Again, the 'olivet discourse' is a mans term. It is not Scripture. What I have said is in context with Scripture.

(Luke 21:20-24) cannot be linked to the end of the age for the reasons I have given. Which you don't address. There is no abomination in the Temple. The Israelites are taken captive, not delivered. The 'times of the Gentiles' continues. (21:24)

Why do you ignore these differences?

The times of the Gentiles is not done till Christ's second coming.

Quantrill

Quantrill, we are giving you the full context of Luke 21:20-24, but not seeing or maybe not understanding the full as you are only focused on what Luke wrote in those five verses. I would suggest you read all those scriptures we have been giving you and ask the Holy Spirit to open your Spiritual eyes to understand the full.

Discourse means spoken communication that Jesus had with His disciples on the Mount of Olives as it's called the Olivet Discourse. It began in Matthew 24:1-3 after the disciples showed Jesus the buildings of the temple and Jesus told them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Then Jesus sat down on the mount of Olives and proceeds to answer the three questions the disciples asked Him in vs. 3.

 

[GodIsMySavior]

Concerning the Olivet Discourse I believe you have two sieges of Jerusalem in view. This is found in (Matt. 24), (Mark 13), and (Luke 21).

I believe these verses in (Luke 21:20-24) speak to 70 A.D. for several reasons. For one, Jesus specifically was addressing the temple that existed when He prophesied of it's destruction. (Luke 21:6) So, somewhere there must be an answer to the disciples response question of "when shall these things be?", and how it pertains to the destruction of that existing temple. (21:7)

It is for these reasons that I believe (Luke 21:20-24) speak to 70 A.D.
Quantrill

I will have to agree. [Please see my harmonization of the O D at this link]

Bible Study - Harmonization of the Olivet Discourse study using the Greek.

I would like to post a biblical study on the famous Olivet Discourse by harmonizing all 3 Gospels that contain it. Most Bible theologians I know of agree that Jesus is speaking about the future destruction of the Temple, Sanctuary and Jerusalem in 70ad, but that is a discussion for another...

christianforums.net

Luke 21 appears to have just as much in common with Revelation as does Matt and Mark IMHO.
Note this Gk word is used in all 3 of the Gospels.

G2050 matches the Greek (erēmōsis), which occurs 3 times in 3 verses

Matthew 24:15
Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>.......
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>

These verses are also showing in Revelation

Luke 21:
20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops, then be knowing that nigh the desolating/ἐρήμωσις<2050> of Her
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

And there is Luke 19 affirming those verses:

Luke 19:
43 That shall be arriving<2240> days upon Thee, and Thy enemies shall be casting about<4016> a rampart/siege-work<5482> to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee, and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee, stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".
=================================
A great commentary on Josephus' war of the Jews leading up to70ad. Coincidentally, Titus sieged Jerusalem on the Passover and why the slaughter of Jews was close to 1 million.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament ............................................

At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ;.................................

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.
=================================
Luke 21:
20 Whenever yet ye may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops, then be knowing that nigh the desolating/ἐρήμωσις<2050> of Her

Revelation 18:
8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows, death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>, that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
19 And they cast dust upon their heads and cried out, lamenting and mourning, saying "woe! woe! the City, the great, in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea out of the preciousness of Her, that to one hour She was desolated/hrhmwqh <2049> (5681)

 

[Quantrill]

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Daniel 9:26; Zechariah 14:1; Matthew 24:15-21; Mark 13:14-19; Luke 21:20-24; Rev 20:7-9 is speaking about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem that happened in 70AD that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:2 as the Roman armies destroyed Jerusalem that day. But also prophetic in the destruction of the temple of God being those/we that have the Spirit of God that indwells us, 1 Corinthians 3:16, as the last battle will be on the last day when Jesus returns and plants His feet on the very mount from where He first spoke of the destruction of the literal and also Spiritual Temple of God.

I already explained in post # 13 the final battle being that of the battle of Armageddon where the armies of Satan will surround the camp of the saints trying for the last time to destroy them, Rev 20:7-10.

(Dan. 9:26) speaks of the 69th week and the destruction of the Temple which will occur in 70 A.D.

(Dan. 9:27) is speaking of the 70th week, which is the more future event of the Tribulation. It is at this time that the abomination is set up in the Temple. Not in the Temple of 70 A.D. It is concerning this time that (Matt. 24:15) gives the warning.

(Luke 21:20), however gives no such warning concerning the abomination. His warning is the surrounding armies. Why? Because no abomination is found in the Temple in 70 A.D. Thus (Dan. 9:27) is not addressing 70 A.D.

It doesn't matter that Jerusalem will be under siege in the last days. I explained it already in post #(1) that two sieges are in view. (Luke 21:20-24) is addressing 70 A.D.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Quantrill, we are giving you the full context of Luke 21:20-24, but not seeing or maybe not understanding the full as you are only focused on what Luke wrote in those five verses. I would suggest you read all those scriptures we have been giving you and ask the Holy Spirit to open your Spiritual eyes to understand the full.

Discourse means spoken communication that Jesus had with His disciples on the Mount of Olives as it's called the Olivet Discourse. It began in Matthew 24:1-3 after the disciples showed Jesus the buildings of the temple and Jesus told them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Then Jesus sat down on the mount of Olives and proceeds to answer the three questions the disciples asked Him in vs. 3.

No, you're not giving the full context at all. And if you read my first post, post #(1), you will see I have not excluded either (Matt.) or (Mark). (Luke) is certainly my focus. Just check out the title of this thread.

Yes, yes, yall are the ones with the 'spiritual eyes'.

The so called Olivet Discourse concerns Israel, the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., the Tribulation period in the last days, and the Second Coming of Christ. It is not the Church that is in view here. It is Israel.

Quantill

 

[GodIsMySavior]

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

I already explained in post # 13 the final battle being that of the battle of Armageddon where the armies of Satan will surround the camp of the saints trying for the last time to destroy them, Rev 20:7-10.

Then what about the Gog/Magog battle? Unless one views those 2 battles as the same event [which some do], and happens after Armageddon.

Revelation 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the land, Gog and Magog,
9 And they did ascend/an-ebhsan <305> over the breadth of the land, and did compass/e-kukl-wsan <2944> the camp of the saints, and the City, the one having been loved, and fire descended fire from the God out of the heaven, and devoured them

(Dan. 9:26) speaks of the 69th week and the destruction of the Temple which will occur in 70 A.D.
It doesn't matter that Jerusalem will be under siege in the last days. I explained it already in post #(1) that two sieges are in view. (Luke 21:20-24) is addressing 70 A.D.
Quantrill

Some Amills have said that Armageddon was 1st century Israel and the Jewish wars/70ad where the Gentiles crushed the Jews and their City , while the Gog/Magog war is the final battle where the Jews/Saints conquer the Gentile armies.
I will stand by Luke..........

Note the Gk words used:

Luke 19:43 "That shall be arriving days upon thee and thy enemies shall be about-casting upon thee seige-works to thee, and they shall be about-compassing/peri-kuklws-ousin <4033> (5692) thee, and they shall be pressing thee every-which-place"

Luke 21:20 `Whenever yet ye may be seeing Jerusalem being compassed/kuklou-menhn<2944> by armies/hosts<4760>, then be ye knowing that has neared the desolating of Her
24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. [Revelation 13:10]
And Jerusalem will be trampled<3961> by Nations/Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” [Revelation 11:2]

Revelation 11:1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it. 2 And the Court outside of the Sanctuary be casting-out outside! and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations/Gentles, and the holy City they shall be treading months, forty two. [Luke 21:20]

Revelation 20:9 And they did ascend/an-ebhsan <305> over the breadth of the land, and did compass/e-kukl-wsan <2944> the camp of the saints, and the City, the having been loved, and descended fire from the God out of the heaven, and devoured them;
========================

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon - EliYah Ministries

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

www.eliyah.com

4033. perikukloo per-ee-koo-klo'-o from 4012 and 2944; to encircle all around, i.e. blockade completely:--compass round.
2944. kukloo koo-klo'-o from the same as 2945; to encircle, i.e. surround:--compass (about), come (stand) round about.

 

[JLB]

The so called Olivet Discourse concerns Israel, the destruction of the Temple in 70 A.D., the Tribulation period in the last days, and the Second Coming of Christ. It is not the Church that is in view here. It is Israel.

Quantill

Its absolutely the Church that is in view here that is who Jesus is addressing in His teaching to His disciples privately on the mount of Olives.

The Church. His disciples the leadership of the Church.



JLB

 

[JLB]

It doesn't matter that Jerusalem will be under siege in the last days. I explained it already in post #(1) that two sieges are in view. (Luke 21:20-24) is addressing 70 A.D.

Luke 21 is addressing the coming of the Lord as the context is so plainly stated.


“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” Luke 21:20-28



The armies that surround Jerusalem will see the Lord coming in the clouds.



JLB

 

[JLB]

And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it. 2 And the Court outside of the Sanctuary be casting-out outside! and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations/Gentles, and the holy City they shall be treading months, forty two. [Luke 21:20]

That’s the great tribulation being spoken of by the Lord just before His coming.


JLB

 

[Quantrill]

Its absolutely the Church that is in view here that is who Jesus is addressing in His teaching to His disciples privately on the mount of Olives.

The Church. His disciples the leadership of the Church.



JLB

The Church doesn't begin until (Acts 2). The disciples and those who followed Jesus were looking for the hope of Israel.

Israel is in view here. Not the Church.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Luke 21 is addressing the coming of the Lord as the context is so plainly stated.


“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” Luke 21:20-28



The armies that surround Jerusalem will see the Lord coming in the clouds.



JLB

(Luke 21:25-28) addresses the coming of the Lord. But that is after (Luke) states that the 'Times of the Gentiles' be fulfilled. (21:24). (Luke 20:-24) addresses 70 A.D.

Why are the 'times of the Gentiles' still going on in (Luke 21:24)? Why are the Jews led away captive in (Luke 21:24) when, if Jesus Second Coming is the end, then there is deliverance. Not captivity. Why? Because (Luke 21:24) speaks to 70 A.D.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

The Church doesn't begin until (Acts 2). The disciples and those who followed Jesus were looking for the hope of Israel.

Israel is in view here. Not the Church.

Quantrill

All your opinion.

If the Apostles of Jesus Christ aren’t the Church then who is?


JLB

 

[JLB]

(Luke 21:25-28) addresses the coming of the Lord. But that is after (Luke) states that the 'Times of the Gentiles' be fulfilled. (21:24). (Luke 20:-24) addresses 70 A.D.

Why are the 'times of the Gentiles' still going on in (Luke 21:24)? Why are the Jews led away captive in (Luke 21:24) when, if Jesus Second Coming is the end, then there is deliverance. Not captivity. Why? Because (Luke 21:24) speaks to 70 A.D.

Quantrill

The deliverance takes place at His coming.

Here’s what it looks like.

And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12


Why do you keep ignoring the plain words of Zechariah that show the armies of the nations of the world in Jerusalem at the end of the age? Why?


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:1-3


This is what Jesus is teaching about in Matthew, Mark and Luke.


The coming of the Lord.




JLB

 

[Quantrill]

All your opinion.

If the Apostles of Jesus Christ aren’t the Church then who is?


JLB

They didn't become part of the Church till (Acts 2).

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

Why are the 'times of the Gentiles' still going on in (Luke 21:24)? Why are the Jews led away captive in (Luke 21:24) when, if Jesus Second Coming is the end, then there is deliverance. Not captivity. Why? Because (Luke 21:24) speaks to 70 A.D.

I have showed the same words from both Matthew and Luke but you still refuse the truth.


“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:20-24


But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

• This is a reference to the great tribulation.

But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!



“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21



Both passages refer to the great tribulation. Ths occurs at the end of the age, not 70AD.




JLB

 

[Quantrill]

I have showed the same words from both Matthew and Luke but you still refuse the truth.


“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:20-24


But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

• This is a reference to the great tribulation.

But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!



“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21



Both passages refer to the great tribulation. Ths occurs at the end of the age, not 70AD.




JLB

Yet you didn't answer the questions.

Quantrill

 

[JLB]

They didn't become part of the Church till (Acts 2).

Quantrill

Jesus says otherwise.

Matthew 18 is before Matthew 24.


“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
Matthew 18:15-17



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yet you didn't answer the questions.

Quantrill

I have showed the same words from both Matthew and Luke but you still refuse the truth.


“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:20-24


But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

• This is a reference to the great tribulation.

But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!



“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21



Both passages refer to the great tribulation. Ths occurs at the end of the age, not 70AD.

 

[JLB]

Why are the Jews led away captive in (Luke 21:24) when, if Jesus Second Coming is the end, then there is deliverance. Not captivity. Why?

Because their deliverance occurs at Hs coming after the tribulation of those days.


Very simple.


JLB

 

[Quantrill]

Because their deliverance occurs at Hs coming after the tribulation of those days.


Very simple.


JLB

There is no captivity at the end of the Tribulation. There is no continuance of the 'Times of the Gentiles'.

That is the end in (Luke 21:24).

Quantrill