Lying

[Gary]

I see, and what constitutes a lie?

You know what a lie is. Let's not play semantics. If you're comfortable with believing that every lie is not a sin, that's your business. I personally do not believe that. When God said that Satan was the Father of all lies, I took this to mean "all lies"....................even the "little white" ones.

Why is lying bad?
Is there ever a time where lying can be used for the good?

Lying is a sin. Only you can determine when and when not to lie or whether to lie at all.

 

[stovebolts]

You know what a lie is. Let's not play semantics. If you're comfortable with believing that every lie is not a sin, that's your business. I personally do not believe that. When God said that Satan was the Father of all lies, I took this to mean "all lies"....................even the "little white" ones.

Gary, I don't know if your this way or not, and I don't think you are. But so many people can take things to an extreme and completely loose touch with what's real.

As a general rule of thumb, most lies are destructive and self serving when we are supposed to serve others and build other up. If we look at what sin really is, it's failing to do the good you could have done. When we fail to do the good we could have done, we've missed the mark. That's what sin is.

If you are giving a surprise birthday party for somebody and they ask you, "Are you giving me a surprise birthday party", and you say "No", that's not a sin. Why? Because your words were not destructive or self serving and your words preserved the good for others. Why then do we look at the "No" as a lie, which is considered a sin, hence BAD.

So you see, it's not really about semantics. It's about discernment and the last thing somebody needs to wrestle with is the idea that they "sinned" because they told somebody the "truth" when asked about a surprise birthday party. To me, we sin when we place that yoke upon anyone as it's un-needed guilt and serves no purpose.

 

[Gary]

As a general rule of thumb, most lies are destructive and self serving when we are supposed to serve others and build other up. If we look at what sin really is, it's failing to do the good you could have done. When we fail to do the good we could have done, we've missed the mark. That's what sin is.

Yup.

James 4
17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

So you see, it's not really about semantics. It's about discernment and the last thing somebody needs to wrestle with is the idea that they "sinned" because they told somebody the "truth" when asked about a surprise birthday party. To me, we sin when we place that yoke upon anyone as it's un-needed guilt and serves no purpose.

If you're throwing a party and you tell someone you're not, that's not the truth. It's a straight up lie.

 

[stovebolts]

Yup.

James 4
17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.




If you're throwing a party and you tell someone you're not, that's not the truth. It's a straight up lie.

So, is it wrong to lie in that circumstance? I mean, is it bad to tell somebody, "Yeah, we're throwing you a surprise birthday party. But because you asked, I have to tell the truth". Seems a bit self righteous to me because it's serving your pride and it stole the good you could have done. You've just ruined what could have been a very good moment for a everyone in on the "Secret". You just stole their joy in serving.

 

[stovebolts]

Abraham and his wife....

Technically, Abraham told the truth. Sarah was his Sister too...
Genesis 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

 

[Gary]

So, is it wrong to lie in that circumstance? I mean, is it bad to tell somebody, "Yeah, we're throwing you a surprise birthday party. But because you asked, I have to tell the truth". Seems a bit self righteous to me because it's serving your pride and it stole the good you could have done. You've just ruined what could have been a very good moment for a everyone in on the "Secret". You just stole their joy in serving.

We all have our own convictions. I say lying is a sin, you disagree.

Lying is a sin. Only you can determine when and when not to lie or whether to lie at all.

I disagree. I don't think that every lie is a sin

See the red highlighted part of my post? Think about what I'm actually saying there. The "lying is a sin" part of that quote is the absolute truth. If you find it hard to accept that, then that's something you need to work out for yourself. I have no problem accepting the truth and if that makes me self-righteous.....good.

One more thing.

I don't take guilt trips.
.

 

[stovebolts]

That's fine Gary.
I feel bad for those who have told "lies" with good intent and had to struggle with the guilt. Seems to me the guilt could have been avoided all together.

I wonder if David felt guilt by having Johnathan lying for him to Saul... You would think we'd find something about that in the bible somewhere.

 

[jeff77]

Are any of you really so callous that you would tell a small child the honest truth about the quality of his or her art work brought home for you to admire?

It is not necessarily a lie to tell your 3 year old "that's a good drawing" when you are basing it on the child's own ability and they did their best.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When you tell lies, it always seems to have a way of catching up with you.
Some people lie to cover previous lies.
Pretty soon they start believing that the lies are actually true.
Then when they are caught in their lies, they come off as untrustworthy and a complete idiot.
Go ahead someone, tell me it's okay to lie.

 

[Edward]

Lying is a sin plain and simple. You can rationalize it all you want and what if this and what if that, but it's still a sin. And if one is disingenuous enough that he feels that he has to lie to a 3 year old to remain righteous in some sort of way, then i would say that that person has to be practically illiterate and has a pride problem.. Scripture does not say thou shalt not lie, except to a three year old...Like jeff77 said, you can tell him that it's good based on where he's at and it isn't a lie.

Same thing with the am I fat question from the wife or GF. If they think that have to be anorexic to be desirable...then you have much more to talk about than a simple lie to make her feel good, that's a cop out. Women gain weight after having kids, fact of life. That in no way makes them not desirable within the bounds of outright obesity. Men age too and lose mass as they age. So what? It happens. You don't have to lie about it. There's no such thing as a little white lie.

 

[Edward]

When you tell lies, it always seems to have a way of catching up with you.
Some people lie to cover previous lies.
Pretty soon they start believing that the lies are actually true.
Then when they are caught in their lies, they come off as untrustworthy and a complete idiot.
Go ahead someone, tell me it's okay to lie.

They sure do. The truth always comes out. There's no way to hide anything. Even from people. Once they lie to you they've shown they have no honor and that's worse than lying to make someone feel good. ...and to lie to a child? Uhh, doesn't scripture warn us very blatantly about that? Millstone and all that?

 

[Gary]

Lying is a sin plain and simple.

Absolutely.

 

[jasonc]

Absolutely.

you were a vet? remember the rule of opsec? surely you had someone ask what you did and had to either tell them I can answer if they were totally clueless or if someone knew something and said something and you had to work around that.

 

[Gary]

you were a vet? remember the rule of opsec? surely you had someone ask what you did and had to either tell them I can answer if they were totally clueless or if someone knew something and said something and you had to work around that.

I said lying is a sin. I didn't say I didn't lie?

I rarely discuss what I did in the service. And then only with certain people.
.

 

[jasonc]

I said lying is a sin. I didn't say I didn't lie?

I rarely discuss what I did in the service. And then only with certain people.
.

I know that, but at times we were ordered to lie or dodge questions if the need was to arise.

 

[Gary]

I know that, but at times we were ordered to lie or dodge questions if the need was to arise.

I was never asked or ordered to lie.

 

[jasonc]

I was never asked or ordered to lie.

so when you were asked by the member of the media what did they teach you?
for me if possible, refer them to the co and or the pao but if one has a rank that can address the question about certain things such as how is the war? then don't let them know if we are loosing or also if the situation is really bad. I don't expect Obama or the cdc to really be fully upfront about ebola. imagine the panic if they said the truth and ebola was really bad?

 

[Gary]

I spent 3 years in Korea. I know what keeping secrets is all about.

 

[Edward]

you were a vet? remember the rule of opsec? surely you had someone ask what you did and had to either tell them I can answer if they were totally clueless or if someone knew something and said something and you had to work around that.

That actually brings up an interesting question. Scripture say we are to obey the powers that be here on earth. What if a military person is ordered to lie about something to someone in the course of a mission or wotnot... Which commandment would then take precedent, the do not lie, or obey the governing authorities?

I mean geez, feeding false information to the enemy may save American lives. Even though I've never been in the military, I can imagine where this may come up in operations...

 

[Edward]

Anyone who says they dont lie is a hypocrite, and anyone who lies is a sinner.

The world needs a saviour. Thank God the Father for Christ Yeshua.

Not one person is upright. Only upright to the Father thanks to Christ sticking up for us.

You're right brother. I lie in the course of my work. How else can I make money on materials? People sometimes ask, how much did that part cost. I quote them the retail price, but that's not what I bought it for. There has to be a markup, and in this economy people ask more and more. How can I be expected to sell parts for my wholesale cost? I'm in business. But technically, it's lying. I think.