Lying

[ReginaForbes]

Should a Christian for whatever reason ever lie?

There's never a good reason to lie...our fear of the Lord must be greater than our fear of what someone will do to us.
I will say this though...I admit I have told lies in the past and then lied to myself in the former of justification for those lies. I hate lying and I hate having to feel like I should tell a lie in order to smooth things over with a temperamental person. I'm disgusted with my sins and I'm grateful to God for forgiving me when I have messed up. I will never be fully sinless until Jesus takes me home.

 

[jasonc]

Why do you love to put words in my mouth?
Let me do that to you.
You say Christians should be police and military and kill the enemy.
I disagree.

so when you say a Christian shouldn't lie but he can benefit from a lie? so if its a sin. then any association with it makes us just as guilty. that is why I said that. if YOU have a man that is contacting your child and you call the cops and they set up a sting and have your daughter respond to an email and or also fake being her, you don't see the logical problem of you tempting that man to sin?

I DO.

 

[Willie T]

so when you say a Christian shouldn't lie but he can benefit from a lie? so if its a sin. then any association with it makes us just as guilty. that is why I said that. if YOU have a man that is contacting your child and you call the cops and they set up a sting and have your daughter respond to an email and or also fake being her, you don't see the logical problem of you tempting that man to sin?

I DO.

Now, THAT one does present an interesting and intriguing dilemma.

 

[jasonc]

Now, THAT one does present an interesting and intriguing dilemma.

not for me. by getting that pervert of the street is something that stovebolts called discernment of the law. which was a sin unto death if one did these:
1) break the Sabbath
2) eat the showbread.

david broke number 2 with his men and wasn't damned. why is that? because he had no other place for food and the LORD knew that.
when ever there was an eight day of a man child to be circumcised and it feel on the Sabbath. the rule was to do the circumcision. common sense. lying to hide or for gain is a sin.lying to protect others when there is danger. simply isn't a sin.

 

[Willie T]

So, Jas, are you saying engaging in a sting is wrong, because the perpetrator would not have broken the law if not for the enticement of the sting bait?

 

[jasonc]

So, Jas, are you saying engaging in a sting is a wrong, because the perpetrator would not have broken the law if not for the enticement of the sting bait?

NO but that is the only way to catch them before they do the damage. would you prefer we don't catch murderers prior to the they kill? the law often doesn't prevent a crime. it punishes after the fact. what could is it to the victim if she or he has been raped and it was preventable by a sting? stings are used for these crimes
1)prositution
2) child sex rings
3) human trafficking to include #2, and also labor.
4) drugs
all three of these were busted were broken in my town in the form of sex slavery, and labor trafficking. the victims are held captive and unless they are caught by happen stance they aren't freed. sometimes it takes a concerned citizen to get the ball rolling.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

so when you say a Christian shouldn't lie but he can benefit from a lie? so if its a sin. then any association with it makes us just as guilty. that is why I said that. if YOU have a man that is contacting your child and you call the cops and they set up a sting and have your daughter respond to an email and or also fake being her, you don't see the logical problem of you tempting that man to sin?

I DO.

You didn't respond to any thing I said.
Typical Jason.

 

[Willie T]

NO but that is the only way to catch them before they do the damage. would you prefer we don't catch murderers prior to the they kill? the law often doesn't prevent a crime. it punishes after the fact. what could is it to the victim if she or he has been raped and it was preventable by a sting? stings are used for these crimes
1)prositution
2) child sex rings
3) human trafficking to include #2, and also labor.
4) drugs
all three of these were busted were broken in my town in the form of sex slavery, and labor trafficking. the victims are held captive and unless they are caught by happen stance they aren't freed. sometimes it takes a concerned citizen to get the ball rolling.

Oh, I see.. Oddly enough, as a Sex Offence therapy worker, that was one of my pet peeves. I really get hot about the stupid "reverse" way we approach that tragic problem. Trust me, you don't want to get me started on THAT train wreck.

 

[stovebolts]

Sin is the failure to do the right thing.... Because failure to do the right thing misses the mark.... This calls for discernment, not ridged and closed thinking.

For some, eating meat offered to idols is sin. I will not be bound by that yoke, but I will respect the right for others to be wrong.

 

[stovebolts]

Just to stir the pot.
Without proper discernment, and by that I mean understanding, not justification... Without proper discernment, black and white thinking makes God himself out to be a hypocrite. God commands Israel not to commit murder, but then he tells them to kill all inhabitants of the land. Women, children and livestock. Or what about when he tells Moses to slay the Israelites_?
Is God saying, I command you not to sin, but then command you to sin? Is God justifying his command to sin, or is it really justified sin... Or is it sin st all?

Have fun .

 

[evenifigoalone]

Just to stir the pot.
Without proper discernment, and by that I mean understanding, not justification... Without proper discernment, black and white thinking makes God himself out to be a hypocrite. God commands Israel not to commit murder, but then he tells them to kill all inhabitants of the land. Women, children and livestock. Or what about when he tells Moses to slay the Israelites_?
Is God saying, I command you not to sin, but then command you to sin? Is God justifying his command to sin, or is it really justified sin... Or is it sin st all?

Have fun .

Good point.

This is a toughie to answer when it's brought up by unbelievers as criticism, but there were justifications for these actions...as these nations had some horrible practices that God didn't want spreading, such as child sacrifice.

So, going by that, actions could be justified by circumstances.
And this makes sense...as I believe the guidelines and commands in the Bible are placed there for our own health and well-being.

Still, you could say that you don't do these things without an order from God. God ordered the killings in the cases where they happened.

 

[Malachi]

God commands Israel not to commit murder, but then he tells them to kill all inhabitants of the land

There are significant differences between manslaughter, murder, warfare, execution of death penalties, and God's wrath upon sin and evil which will lead to extermination (such as during Noah's day). Unless we carefully make those distinctions, we will stumble in our understanding of God as well as Christianity.

Of one thing we can be absolutely sure: "The LORD is righteous in ALL His ways, and holy in ALL His works" (Psalm 145:17 KJV).

 

[jasonc]

There are significant differences between manslaughter, murder, warfare, execution of death penalties, and God's wrath upon sin and evil which will lead to extermination (such as during Noah's day). Unless we carefully make those distinctions, we will stumble in our understanding of God as well as Christianity.

Of one thing we can be absolutely sure: "The LORD is righteous in ALL His ways, and holy in ALL His works" (Psalm 145:17 KJV).

some forms of orders during warfare are in deed outright murder. im not talking about Joshua and isreal, but in modern days. was it murder when the Japanese under orders massacred? yes.

 

[Malachi]

some forms of orders during warfare are in deed outright murder. im not talking about Joshua and isreal, but in modern days. was it murder when the Japanese under orders massacred? yes.

And that's fine as long as everything is not lumped together as "murder". God will make the ultimate judgments.

 

[jasonc]

And that's fine as long as everything is not lumped together as "murder". God will make the ultimate judgments.

as a quasi-historian of war, I would say not all wars America has fought are just. some where just for land.

 

[Edward]

Just to stir the pot.
Without proper discernment, and by that I mean understanding, not justification... Without proper discernment, black and white thinking makes God himself out to be a hypocrite. God commands Israel not to commit murder, but then he tells them to kill all inhabitants of the land. Women, children and livestock. Or what about when he tells Moses to slay the Israelites_?
Is God saying, I command you not to sin, but then command you to sin? Is God justifying his command to sin, or is it really justified sin... Or is it sin st all?

Have fun .

Well, why do you think He did that? It's reasonable to assume that He had a really good reason.

 

[stovebolts]

After reading what you four have written how do we conclude?

Is all killing sin?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Murder is a sin. Not all killing is murder.

 

[Brother Mike]

I've seen this question posed and I've got to say, in some situations it would be a sin not to lie....
The biblical example I would give would be David when he asked Johnathan to lie to Saul about why David couldn't make the banquet. Johnathan lied to his father Saul, and by lying, he found out the truth. Had he not found out the truth, he would have never knew what David already knew, ... which was that Saul wanted to kill David.

Oh wait, David wasn't a Christian... I don't think that had anything to do with it. Why? Well, lets use the good ole Nazi argument. Your a good Christian young man and your hiding a Jew in your basement when a Nazi officer comes and knocks on your door asking you if you have any Jews in your house. You can't lie, so out of your own self righteousness, you say, "Why yes, I have a Jew in my basement, for I cannot lie". Congratulations, you've just sentenced an innocent man to his death because of your self righteousness. For some reason, I don't think God approves. I don't anyway.

But what are those chances? Pretty slim, unless you live in Iraq.

But lets be real. Your girlfriend asks, "Does this make me look fat?" Go ahead, be honest. But wait..., that's subjective anyway right? Or what about that kid who tries so hard to play baseball and he's discouraged and he says, "I"m not very good am I, I should just quit". Go ahead, finish him off and crush his spirit. "Yeah kid, you pretty much suck. You should try something else, like domino's".

On the other side of the coin, if you've done something wrong, you need to admit it. Yup, I stole that, and it was wrong. You don't lie to cover up something you've done wrong.

All lying comes from fear. We are to have nothing to do with fear. God has never dropped the ball one time to protect anyone. The fear of man brings a snare. Lying out of fear, can get you killed. Not answering a question is also fine. Nothing willfully deceptive should come from our mouth. We also don't need to admit anything when having done wrong, but to the father. If for conscience sake where the law is not involved we might need tell what we did.

If someone is with me, the are protected. I don't have to lie to someone, as people are not the issue, but the spiritual force behind the problem. As it is written, we don't wrestle against flesh and blood.

 

[stovebolts]

Murder is a sin. Not all killing is murder.

I see.
So, what is the difference between murder and killing?
When does killing become murder?