Lying

[Rollo Tamasi]

That actually brings up an interesting question. Scripture say we are to obey the powers that be here on earth. What if a military person is ordered to lie about something to someone in the course of a mission or wotnot... Which commandment would then take precedent, the do not lie, or obey the governing authorities?

I mean geez, feeding false information to the enemy may save American lives. Even though I've never been in the military, I can imagine where this may come up in operations...

That's just another reason why Christians don't belong in the military.

 

[Edward]

How is that i lie?. It does not matter what you buy or sell your product for. Even if you make 1000% on it. The price is the price you advertise and sell. Its the persons choice if they want your service or go somewhere else. That is nothing to do with lying.

Making money is not wrong. Its the way people make it, there intentions, and what they do with it, and how much they idolize it. I know people that is all on there mind. Everything has to have a value on it. Even after work. Its like there life everything revolves around money.

Ah, thank you brother. That's encouraging to me. Price markup is the closest I come to dishonesty in my work. I will not cut corners to save/make an extra buck. I give them what they pay for and are under the impression that they are getting, and stand behind it. I wont even push certain items over others just because there's more of a markup to it for me. But when they ask me, how much did that cost? I know they want me to tell them how much it cost me, and I don't tell them, I answer how much it will cost them.

Thinking about it, I do have one other gray area. There have been times, when I was supposed to get a permit/inspection and did not at the customers request. Most of the time, it's a good idea, because the customer rarely knows anything about the mechanics of the job, and it reassures them that the job was done correctly to have a passed inspection. Sometimes, I work for tradesmen of other trades who can look at the work and be able to tell if it is good work or not. In these cases, the permit and inspection does nothing but line big brothers pockets. Am I the permit police? Who is the customer? Do what the customer wants, if I want repeat customers. It doesn't change my work at all. Even with no permit, I still do the job as if it would be inspected because I have honor first and foremost, and secondly, I don't want it to ever be able to come back on me. This has happened also, It still passed inspection first time.

One guy, after asking me to not pull a permit so he could save the money, actually wound up tipping me more than the permit would have cost just because I didn't shove it down his throat! That's customer service. But technically illegal.

 

[jasonc]

That actually brings up an interesting question. Scripture say we are to obey the powers that be here on earth. What if a military person is ordered to lie about something to someone in the course of a mission or wotnot... Which commandment would then take precedent, the do not lie, or obey the governing authorities?

I mean geez, feeding false information to the enemy may save American lives. Even though I've never been in the military, I can imagine where this may come up in operations...

I know in prison work for me, we are to make no promises and play a game at times with inmates. its a long discussion on how to work in corrections.

 

[Edward]

I know in prison work for me, we are to make no promises and play a game at times with inmates. its a long discussion on how to work in corrections.

I can see that. But how similar is the psychology with inmates to actual military operations? My first instinct would be to say probably not much, but I say that loosely, having never been in the military, nor am I a professional psychologist.

 

[jasonc]

That's just another reason why Christians don't belong in the military.

or work. if you don't think retail involves stretching facts. sales? like they aren't honest. turning wrenches?if one doesnt well make a part look bad when its not in some places you wont last. there are a lot of shady mechanics. that isn't encouraged or discouraged, but they don't exactly try to stop it. I have seen that personally. I don't do that. if its bad, I suggest fixing I then

 

[jasonc]

I can see that. But how similar is the psychology with inmates to actual military operations? My first instinct would be to say probably not much, but I say that loosely, having never been in the military, nor am I a professional psychologist.

the training standards for mp corrections and jail work for cops is the same.

 

[Edward]

or work. if you don't think retail involves stretching facts. sales? like they aren't honest. turning wrenches?if one doesnt well make a part look bad when its not in some places you wont last. there are a lot of shady mechanics. that isn't encouraged or discouraged, but they don't exactly try to stop it. I have seen that personally. I don't do that. if its bad, I suggest fixing I then

I have seen it too, and worked for companies that told me to cut corners to save time and be able to get to the next job fast. Like not to use a recovery machine for refrigerant, just blow the charge Ed is what they said. (because it's time consuming). I used the recovery machine anyway and took the time. That's a 25K dollar fine and I respect that. I don't lie about bad parts either. I was told once, if you have to go get a part, don't tell the customer what it is, then if you're wrong we don't have to eat it. That's perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever been told. How about taking an extra few minutes to diagnose it right instead of guessing?!

the training standards for mp corrections and jail work for cops is the same.

Allright brother, I'll take your word on that so as not to derail the thread from topic too much. ;)

 

[jasonc]

I have seen it too, and worked for companies that told me to cut corners to save time and be able to get to the next job fast. Like not to use a recovery machine for refrigerant, just blow the charge Ed is what they said. (because it's time consuming). I used the recovery machine anyway and took the time. That's a 25K dollar fine and I respect that. I don't lie about bad parts either. I was told once, if you have to go get a part, don't tell the customer what it is, then if you're wrong we don't have to eat it. That's perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever been told. How about taking an extra few minutes to diagnose it right instead of guessing?!



Allright brother, I'll take your word on that so as not to derail the thread from topic too much. ;)

turning wrenches has much of the same mentality. though the good shops wont do that. I strive not to as im guy that has to refix it. case in point my fan clutch. I shouldn't have been cheap. just paid for a good part.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

or work. if you don't think retail involves stretching facts. sales? like they aren't honest. turning wrenches?if one doesnt well make a part look bad when its not in some places you wont last. there are a lot of shady mechanics. that isn't encouraged or discouraged, but they don't exactly try to stop it. I have seen that personally. I don't do that. if its bad, I suggest fixing I then

There's no comparison.
One can walk away from a sales job.
One cannot walk away from the military.

 

[jasonc]

There's no comparison.
One can walk away from a sales job.
One cannot walk away from the military.

really? I can. I don't have to show up, I can turn in my letter and im out within months. there are jobs that such as cops that use deception. do you feel that a female cop isn't lying when she plays the role of a whore and is asked are you a cop and she said no?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

really? I can. I don't have to show up, I can turn in my letter and im out within months. there are jobs that such as cops that use deception. do you feel that a female cop isn't lying when she plays the role of a whore and is asked are you a cop and she said no?

Again, a Christian should not be involved in such things.

 

[jeff77]

really? I can. I don't have to show up, I can turn in my letter and im out within months. there are jobs that such as cops that use deception. do you feel that a female cop isn't lying when she plays the role of a whore and is asked are you a cop and she said no?

Sometimes Cops or Military will play an undercover roll to counter terrorist to prevent from setting off bombs.

 

[Edward]

really? I can. I don't have to show up, I can turn in my letter and im out within months. there are jobs that such as cops that use deception. do you feel that a female cop isn't lying when she plays the role of a whore and is asked are you a cop and she said no?

You can't trust anything out of a cops mouth. It's a crime to lie to the cops, but they are allowed to lie in the pursuit of their duties and investigations. This is true.

 

[Gary]

Again, a Christian should not be involved in such things.

Is it a sin to be in the military?

 

[Edward]

Is it a sin to be in the military?

I don't think it is. The Lord sure did send a lot of people into battle in the OT, but for just reasons. The gray area is motive for the fight I think. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Lord never sent His people into battle over oil or poppy fields, lol.

Nowadays, the military can create a dilemma for the Christian recruit. From what I understand, most military personell don't know where they're going or why until the get on the plane. In this case, I personally believe that...they signed up and should obey orders. The Lord would know what's in their heart while they're active duty and probably hold the higher ups responsible in the long run, those who gave the orders... *Probably*

I do know that the Lord wants us to have honor and fulfill our earthly contracts that we make.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Is it a sin to be in the military?

Not at all.

 

[Gary]

Not at all.

Just checking.

 

[jasonc]

I don't think it is. The Lord sure did send a lot of people into battle in the OT, but for just reasons. The gray area is motive for the fight I think. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Lord never sent His people into battle over oil or poppy fields, lol.

Nowadays, the military can create a dilemma for the Christian recruit. From what I understand, most military personell don't know where they're going or why until the get on the plane. In this case, I personally believe that...they signed up and should obey orders. The Lord would know what's in their heart while they're active duty and probably hold the higher ups responsible in the long run, those who gave the orders... *Probably*

I do know that the Lord wants us to have honor and fulfill our earthly contracts that we make.

while I agree with that. there is a case about that where an officer refused to go and won his case based on a prior case from nam. I cant think of it. NO we know what mission in general we have. its hard to train and keep up with the pace of change that occurs in combat. trust me it changes fast. what intel you get this month may not be good the next, or the tactics

 

[jasonc]

Again, a Christian should not be involved in such things.

so when its YOUR child that is being contacted by a pedophile. don't call the cops. that has been done. I know the man whom was caught and I served with him. he is imprisoned in a prison near me and members of his old unit are in charge of his cell. though they aren't doing that for the military. he was charged and convicted by the state of florida.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

so when its YOUR child that is being contacted by a pedophile. don't call the cops. that has been done. I know the man whom was caught and I served with him. he is imprisoned in a prison near me and members of his old unit are in charge of his cell. though they aren't doing that for the military. he was charged and convicted by the state of florida.

Why do you love to put words in my mouth?
Let me do that to you.
You say Christians should be police and military and kill the enemy.
I disagree.