Lying

[Gary]

Where's Classik ?

 

[jasonc]

Where's Classik ?

a soccer ball ate him.

 

[Gary]

a soccer ball ate him.

He's stuck inside one of these.

It's a Zorb soccer ball.
.

 

[jasonc]

He's stuck inside one of these.

It's a Zorb soccer ball.
.

well I would shoot that thing with a bb gun or pellet gun but classic is such an anti-gun nut that it might change his mind about guns. he might like them. so I will just have to free him.

 

[Edward]

Yeah, I guess we got a little off topic there, lol.

So what's the conclusion? You generally shouldn't lie, but there may be certain extenuating circumstances (like saving a loved one) which would not be sin. The Lord looks at the heart and what's in it at the moment they are doing the questionable behavior. If you're defensive and only fight with love and saving lives in mind/heart, rather than the attacker who is knowingly committing evil. Then it's just war.

 

[jeff77]

Yeah, I guess we got a little off topic there, lol.

So what's the conclusion? You generally shouldn't lie, but there may be certain extenuating circumstances (like saving a loved one) which would not be sin. The Lord looks at the heart and what's in it at the moment they are doing the questionable behavior. If you're defensive and only fight with love and saving lives in mind/heart, rather than the attacker who is knowingly committing evil. Then it's just war.

I was wondering the same thing Edward, what is the conclusion here? In the scenario with lying to ISIS about having someone in your home that they want to be-head...it seems like if you (whoever) are going to tell them the truth then you shouldn't offer to protect them by letting them into your home in the first place. Can you imagine someone knocking on your door and saying "please help, there are people out here that are trying to kill me". Can you imagine having to say "sorry can't help you, cause I might have to lie to ISIS."

 

[Jesse]

I was wondering the same thing Edward, what is the conclusion here? In the scenario with lying to ISIS about having someone in your home that they want to be-head...it seems like if you (whoever) are going to tell them the truth then you shouldn't offer to protect them by letting them into your home in the first place. Can you imagine someone knocking on your door and saying "please help, there are people out here that are trying to kill me". Can you imagine having to say "sorry can't help you, cause I might have to lie to ISIS."

According to what was taught here, the greater sin would be telling someone you can't help them.

The sin is failing to do the good you should have done.

 

[Malachi]

="StoveBolts, post: 1016607, member: 60

StoveBolts,
It is indeed true that God prefers mercy to sacrifice. No argument there. So let's address some of your points.

Sin is the failure to do the good you could have done.

This cannot be disputed since Scripture says (Jas 4:17): "Therefore to him that knowneth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin". This is corroborated by John (1 Jn 3:17): "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother having need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?"

At the same time, it is John who tells us that sin is the transgression of the Law (1 Jn 3:4) "Whosoever committeth sin trangresseth also the Law; for sin is the transgression [breaking] of the Law". Both John, and Paul and James tell us that we are now under the Law of Christ (Gal 6:2), and under His Law lying is a sin (Eph 4:25), therefore we are admonished thus: "Wherefore putting away lying, SPEAK EVERY MAN TRUTH WITH HIS NEIGHBOUR: for we are members one of another". So the first thing to lay hold on is that in God's eyes lying is a sin. Period.

So the next issue (which is totally separate) is "Will God forgive lies because they might save a life or save a soul?" Using your scenario below, most Christians (including myself) would lie to save lives, especially when demons are at your door (and there is no question that ISIS and Jihad are demonically controlled).

Your in an ISIS controlled territory and your harboring a family of Christians. ISIS comes to your door and asks you if you've seen any Christians.

This may be the only time that one could say that lying was for the greater good. But my whole point, which is fully supported by the Scriptures above, is that even so THE LIE WAS A SIN. God can forgive this sin, but He will not whitewash it and call it something else. That's the real issue. In God's eyes sins are sins, not "mistakes", not "white lies", not anything else. Criminals get off on technicalities all the time, but with God it is always black and white.

 

[jasonc]

StoveBolts,
It is indeed true that God prefers mercy to sacrifice. No argument there. So let's address some of your points.

This cannot be disputed since Scripture says (Jas 4:17): "Therefore to him that knowneth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin". This is corroborated by John (1 Jn 3:17): "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother having need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?"

At the same time, it is John who tells us that sin is the transgression of the Law (1 Jn 3:4) "Whosoever committeth sin trangresseth also the Law; for sin is the transgression [breaking] of the Law". Both John, and Paul and James tell us that we are now under the Law of Christ (Gal 6:2), and under His Law lying is a sin (Eph 4:25), therefore we are admonished thus: "Wherefore putting away lying, SPEAK EVERY MAN TRUTH WITH HIS NEIGHBOUR: for we are members one of another". So the first thing to lay hold on is that in God's eyes lying is a sin. Period.

So the next issue (which is totally separate) is "Will God forgive lies because they might save a life or save a soul?" Using your scenario below, most Christians (including myself) would lie to save lives, especially when demons are at your door (and there is no question that ISIS and Jihad are demonically controlled).


This may be the only time that one could say that lying was for the greater good. But my whole point, which is fully supported by the Scriptures above, is that even so THE LIE WAS A SIN. God can forgive this sin, but He will not whitewash it and call it something else. That's the real issue. In God's eyes sins are sins, not "mistakes", not "white lies", not anything else. Criminals get off on technicalities all the time, but with God it is always black and white.

so if a person then lies and does cause a Christian to die then he isn't to feel any thing guilty. if a cop comes to my house to arrest you, I should hand you over if he asks me if the crime is being a Christian?

 

[Malachi]

so if a person then lies and does cause a Christian to die then he isn't to feel any thing guilty. if a cop comes to my house to arrest you, I should hand you over if he asks me if the crime is being a Christian?

You seem to have misunderstood what's been said. There can be circumstances when a lie is necessary "for the greater good", particularly to save lives or save souls. But the lie remains a lie, and must be confessed as a sin to God, who does not change His standards. He can and will forgive those who confess their sins.

 

[Jesse]

You seem to have misunderstood what's been said. There can be circumstances when a lie is necessary "for the greater good", particularly to save lives or save souls. But the lie remains a lie, and must be confessed as a sin to God, who does not change His standards. He can and will forgive those who confess their sins.

Abraham lied but was called God's Friend.

 

[Malachi]

Abraham lied but was called God's Friend.

Yes, Abraham is called the Friend of God and was richly blessed by God. At the same time his lie was not treated as the truth. Indeed God used Pharoah to convict Abraham of his lie (Gen 12:18-19) and he was also banished from Egypt (Gen 12:20). God's standard did not change, and chances are Abraham confessed his sin and was forgiven, otherwise he would not have prospered (Gen 13:2). Jacob also was a deceiver, but His deception was not whitewashed, and he reaped Esau's hatred (Gen 27:41). Eventually he was forgiven and received the name "Israel" (prince with God).

 

[Gary]

Lying is a sin. Every lie that's told, no matter how great or how small, is a sin.

The wages of sin is death. While sin invites death, not all who sin receive those wages. There's only one unforgivable sin.

The Lord looks at motive. He weighs the spirits and searches the heart.

 

[Jesse]

Lying is a sin. Every lie that's told, no matter how great or how small, is a sin.

The wages of sin is death. While sin invites death, not all who sin receive those wages. There's only one unforgivable sin.

The Lord looks at motive. He weighs the spirits and searches the heart.

There are reasons why people need to lie, I lied, when I was younger, more than once, the motive: to escape beatings from my abusive father. No, I had not done anything that I could tell to bring these on, it was he using false witnessing against me. I don't think then or now that I was sinning.

I would not have a problem with lying to save another's life, I don't think it would be a sin, it would be wrong of me tell the truth and forfeit an innocent life.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Lewis]

Lie' what is that something new ? I have never done it before. How is it done

 

[stovebolts]

View attachment 5450

Ha

I was hoping it was more on the side of chevy, now am curious to know if he is also a mechanic or just likes working on old cars.

Hi Jesse,
Well, we burn wood as our primary heat and I'm fascinated with Rocket Stoves and I want to build a Rocket Heater for the house lol! But... my screen name came from the nickname my Dad gave my car.
Here's an old video from 2007.. please excuse all the "My" statements and how cluttered the garage is. Seemed the garage became a catch all that winter...

Here's a picture after my neighbor finished painting it. Not bad for being painted in a barn. And yeah, I built the engine, tranny etc. I just bought a new intake that I'll be finishing bolting up today. Spring I need to change the stall converter and I'm hoping to run mid 12's.
View attachment 5451

 

[stovebolts]

StoveBolts,
It is indeed true that God prefers mercy to sacrifice. No argument there. So let's address some of your points.

This cannot be disputed since Scripture says (Jas 4:17): "Therefore to him that knowneth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin". This is corroborated by John (1 Jn 3:17): "But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother having need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?"

At the same time, it is John who tells us that sin is the transgression of the Law (1 Jn 3:4) "Whosoever committeth sin trangresseth also the Law; for sin is the transgression [breaking] of the Law". Both John, and Paul and James tell us that we are now under the Law of Christ (Gal 6:2), and under His Law lying is a sin (Eph 4:25), therefore we are admonished thus: "Wherefore putting away lying, SPEAK EVERY MAN TRUTH WITH HIS NEIGHBOUR: for we are members one of another". So the first thing to lay hold on is that in God's eyes lying is a sin. Period.

So the next issue (which is totally separate) is "Will God forgive lies because they might save a life or save a soul?" Using your scenario below, most Christians (including myself) would lie to save lives, especially when demons are at your door (and there is no question that ISIS and Jihad are demonically controlled).


This may be the only time that one could say that lying was for the greater good. But my whole point, which is fully supported by the Scriptures above, is that even so THE LIE WAS A SIN. God can forgive this sin, but He will not whitewash it and call it something else. That's the real issue. In God's eyes sins are sins, not "mistakes", not "white lies", not anything else. Criminals get off on technicalities all the time, but with God it is always black and white.

Thank you for the well thought out post. I appreciate it.
As far as the nuts and bolts of your post, I'm actually more concerned with what you do and why you do it. Point in case, I'm glad that you find lying in the above case the right thing to do for obvious reasons. That shows me that you know basic right verses wrong, and your not so stuck in religious zeal that given the situation, you would do the right thing. You see, what we label the act is of less concern than doing the act and the motivation behind the act. In this case, you would lie (sin) to save a life because you find saving a life more valuable than the willful disobedience of sinning.

Question: How can doing the right thing be considered a sin? God doesn't want us to sin because we know that sin is bad. (doing the wrong thing).
I'm pretty sure God doesn't want us to willfully sin either because God wants us to do the right thing, not the wrong thing. Why? Because the wrong thing is bad, that's why it's a sin right? And we know that we have to repent from the bad things (sins) by doing the right things. (Christ like)

Hebrews 10:26-27
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Now then, I'm pretty sure saving a life is a good thing, even if one has to lie to save that life. (I'm thinking about Rahab, the prostitute none the less).
Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,

 

[stovebolts]

Lie' what is that something new ? I have never done it before. How is it done

You start by taking your right arm out, you take your right arm in, you take your right arm out and you shake it all about!

 

[evenifigoalone]

You do the hokey pokey and--heyyyyy Macarena!

 

[stovebolts]

You do the hokey pokey and--heyyyyy Macarena!

Ya know, that Macarena is dancing... and that's sinning because dancing is sinning!
Repent and do the hokey pokey!