Lying

[evenifigoalone]

"Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." (Google)

Self defense isn't murder. Execution of a criminal isn't murder. Killing soldiers in war isn't murder. I'd say motives play a huge part, too.

 

[stovebolts]

So premeditated killing when justified through an authoritative rule isn't murder. Perhaps this is why they could stone a woman to death and that killing wasn't a sin.

Side note: death occurs so sin won't live forever.

What other good comes from killing another human being?

 

[Jesse]

What other good comes from killing another human being?

To save a life of another.

 

[stovebolts]

To save a life of another.

I see.
So, we can kill another to save a life.. Yet we can't lie to save a life.

Interesting....

What is a lie? Isn't it simply telling the truth?

And what is the truth?

 

[Jesse]

I see.
So, we can kill another to save a life.. Yet we can't lie to save a life.

Interesting....

What is a lie? Isn't it simply telling the truth?

And what is the truth?

A person should be able to defend themselves and/or loved ones, by stopping the attacker, either it be by force or by lying or whatever else comes to the mind of the survivalist.

Some people can become very resourceful when their life or the life of a loved one is threatened.

 

[stovebolts]

A person should be able to defend themselves and/or loved ones, by stopping the attacker, either it be by force or by lying or whatever else comes to the mind of the survivalist.

Some people can become very resourceful when their life or the life of a loved one is threatened.

Agreed.

 

[Malachi]

What is a lie? Isn't it simply telling the truth?

If a lie were simply telling the truth, it would no longer be a lie, would it? They are two opposites.

And what is the truth?

Simply the opposite of a lie.

 

[stovebolts]

If a lie were simply telling the truth, it would no longer be a lie, would it? They are two opposites.


Simply the opposite of a lie.

How could they not be opposites?
Unity is not uniformity.
Think about it.....

 

[jasonc]

How could they not be opposites?
Unity is not uniformity.
Think about it.....

thank god unity isn't uniformity.

 

[Jesse]

How could they not be opposites?
Unity is not uniformity.
Think about it.....

How does unity not being uniformity have to do with truth?
If you and I find unity somewhere, it doesn't make it truth.
Maybe I'm missing your point.

 

[stovebolts]

Ha! Typo lol? Let's try this again lol.

What is a lie? Isn't it simply NOT telling the truth?

And what is the truth?

So far, we know that killing can be a sin, or in other circumstances its not a sin.

Truth is, killing can sometimes be a sin and other times its not a sin.

Sin is defined as missing the mark. One fails to do the good they could have done.

And who defines what is good? God does. He is our authority.

Just like killing isn't always a sin, neither is lying. Both require discernment and like killing is something we avoid, so is lying... Because it is rarely justified through Gods authoritative word, the Bible.

 

[jasonc]

Ha! Typo lol? Let's try this again lol.

What is a lie? Isn't it simply NOT telling the truth?

And what is the truth?

So far, we know that killing can be a sin, or in other circumstances its not a sin.

Truth is, killing can sometimes be a sin and other times its not a sin.

Sin is defined as missing the mark. One fails to do the good they could have done.

And who defines what is good? God does. He is our authority.

Just like killing isn't always a sin, neither is lying. Both require discernment and like killing is something we avoid, so is lying... Because it is rarely justified through Gods authoritative word, the Bible.

stop posting jewish methods of discerning the torah.this is a gentile forum. we cant allow this.lol

 

[Jesse]

Ha! Typo lol? Let's try this again lol.

What is a lie? Isn't it simply NOT telling the truth?

And what is the truth?

So far, we know that killing can be a sin, or in other circumstances its not a sin.

Truth is, killing can sometimes be a sin and other times its not a sin.

Sin is defined as missing the mark. One fails to do the good they could have done.

And who defines what is good? God does. He is our authority.

Just like killing isn't always a sin, neither is lying. Both require discernment and like killing is something we avoid, so is lying... Because it is rarely justified through Gods authoritative word, the Bible.

Ok, well, it was a little confusing, it was like walking into a really bad philosophy class. haha

I understand what you are saying, thanks for clearing it up, what you've shown does make sense.

James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.

This verse could apply to those extremely difficult decisions and actions God might call one of us to do one day. What seems not "good" to us, could be "good" to God.

 

[stovebolts]

Ok, well, it was a little confusing, it was like walking into a really bad philosophy class. haha

I understand what you are saying, thanks for clearing it up, what you've shown does make sense.

James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.

This verse could apply to those extremely difficult decisions and actions God might call one of us to do one day. What seems not "good" to us, could be "good" to God.

You got it!

 

[stovebolts]

stop posting jewish methods of discerning the torah.this is a gentile forum. we cant allow this.lol

Sinner! Lol

 

[Deborah13]

I see.
So, we can kill another to save a life.. Yet we can't lie to save a life.

Interesting....

What is a lie? Isn't it simply telling the truth?

And what is the truth?

I absolutely hate lying. But I would lie to save a life.

 

[jasonc]

He's just playing with everyone's head. I think even the rabbis would frown on that!

uhm no, i know him well. what he said is what jews call discerning the law

jesus and the torah would agree on that work on the shabat is a death penalty. yet the fact is that any given shabat there was a baby to be circumcised. work is done there and yet the the priests would do that wouldn't be put to death.

the lord used the example of the showbread to show that at times hunger and man are greater then ceremony. lying while doesn't fall in the class does have a place like this as you hate islam if you knew a muslim was about to harm an another and was asked by him to keep it secret and you said i would , i think you would have lied to save a person.

 

[jasonc]

In case you did not notice, there is no "point" in all this. Just having some fun at your expense. Probably thinks Christians are really gullible.

you don't know him enough to make that personal attack. i do, and no he isn't and i know him outside this forum.

 

[Jesse]

He's just playing with everyone's head. I think even the rabbis would frown on that!

In case you did not notice, there is no "point" in all this. Just having some fun at your expense. Probably thinks Christians are really gullible.

I really wasn't getting that from this conversation.

He actually made an important point if you read through the rest of the thread.

 

[jasonc]

I don't need to know him at all to know he is is just having some fun in this thread (and there's nothing wrong with that). Here's what is in his post #113

On what grounds do you say my comments are a "personal attack"? Just pointed out the obvious. He already showed his hand and almost everyone ignored these signs.

As to the questions Stovebolts is asking, the answers are already in the Bible. Lying is lying, and truth is truth. Murder is murder, and taking a life is taking a life. I already explained something about taking a life above. We don't need endless discussion about such basics.

so its a SIN in all cases? i guess when im asked by the enemy what i do for the army, i should just tell them. avoiding an answer is also a lie, a half truth is a lie.