Man is Evil

[theLords]

Truth is subjective.

How sad.

 

[Ashua]

To elaborate a bit further... When HIV first became "known" in the 70's or 80's or whenever they realized it...

Had they quarantined and destroyed the carriers back then, how many people from that point on to this very present day would have been spared? Nobody alive today would have aids. How many millions alive today will die because of it?

I'm not advocating this theoretical holocaust. I'm just demonstrating that "progressing humanity" is not a reliable measure for gauging morality.

 

[theLords]

Of course it isn't moral because it harms those who would have been killed. It makes people of no value. . . . . . . . which is understandable that you would suggest that since the bible hold no worth on human beings.

Humans value life? Is this incessant need for man to kill each other an example of just how much humans value life?

 

[Deavonreye]

So you are saying the lives of a few million people today are worth more than the exponential number of lives that will be scourged by it in the future? How do you value human life? By the myopic viewpoint of the present tense? How many people are alive today right now breathing this very moment who do not have aids that WILL acquire it in their lifetimes. Doing this HIV/Aids holocaust spares them the disease. Have you ever had to tell someone they are HIV positive? It could all be avoided with one "tough decision" forevermore.

Of course, it is murder. But is it any less murder if you watch someone die when you could have saved them?

Myopic? Christianity is founded on myopia.

Regardless, why don't we destroy all forms of transportation because that kills many MANY people each year? Why not cut off the "gentles" of every man so that some babies wouldn't be born that may end up being serial killers? Why? Because the future should be looked at with optimism. AIDS/HIV could be cured tomorrow. How sad it would be for the millions we killed yesterday.

Morality still must be in place for a society to progress correctly.

 

[Deavonreye]

Humans value life? Is this incessant need for man to kill each other an example of just how much humans value life?

Not everyone has "an incessant need to kill others".

Lest we get into all the human lives that were ended by Hebrew travels to the "promised land". If you want to throw the into the mix, then it is understandable that men would be called evil.

 

[theLords]

Not everyone has "an incessant need to kill others".

Lest we get into all the human lives that were ended by Hebrew travels to the "promised land". If you want to throw the into the mix, then it is understandable that men would be called evil.

History clearly shows that man cannot co-exist peacefully with man, hence man's "incessant need to kill others."

Sure, the Hebrew's are in the mix, I wasn't discounting the OT Bible, but as Believers who believe in absolute Truth, it's not an issue.

How does one with subjective truth establish any basis of good within himself when history shows that man is not good? Your logic is not the same logic that another (atheist? agnostic? deist?) shares so who gets to establish the standard of good and who gets to change it and when and why?

 

[Alabaster]

Even if that standard is no longer moral to modern times? I understand that "good" is actually ONLY "being obedient" and has nothing to do with our actual understanding of what is good.

LOL! God's standards of goodness supersede the moral climate of any generation. He doesn't change. He is never passé.

 

[Alabaster]

Of course it isn't moral because it harms those who would have been killed. It makes people of no value. . . . . . . . which is understandable that you would suggest that since the bible hold no worth on human beings.

Try reading the scriptures, and discover for yourself how man is so loved by God, and even considered worth saving---all while we are behaving in the most evil ways.

 

[Deavonreye]

History clearly shows that man cannot co-exist peacefully with man, hence man's "incessant need to kill others."

Sure, the Hebrew's are in the mix, I wasn't discounting the OT Bible, but as Believers who believe in absolute Truth, it's not an issue.

How does one with subjective truth establish any basis of good within himself when history shows that man is not good? Your logic is not the same logic that another (atheist? agnostic? deist?) shares so who gets to establish the standard of good and who gets to change it and when and why?

The old saying, "learn history or repeat it" says a lot. We learn from our mistakes. What didn't work in the past is learned and a new path taken.

 

[Deavonreye]

LOL! God's standards of goodness supersede the moral climate of any generation. He doesn't change. He is never passé.

I disagree. We learned long ago that slavery is immoral. We learned long ago that ordering soldiers to kill non-combatants [women and children/babies] is excessively immoral. We learned long ago that, even IF it is some weird "test", human sacrifice should never be suggested. Unless "human life" is worthless. . .

Try reading the scriptures, and discover for yourself how man is so loved by God, and even considered worth saving---all while we are behaving in the most evil ways.

. . . as is seen many times in scripture. If humanity was "considered worth saving", I just don't see it. Having read the scriptures, there is FAR more unnecessary death than there should be, even death to those who were NOT "most evil in their ways".

 

[Drew]

Myopic? Christianity is founded on myopia.

I doubt very much that you will be able to support this assertion. What I suggest you will indeed be able to show is that many who call themselves "Christians" promote ideas that are indeed myopic. But this is a slightly different matter. Perhaps you will say I am engaging the "no true Scotsman" argument. Well, if you want to go that route, I am happy to deal with that.

 

[Deavonreye]

I doubt very much that you will be able to support this assertion. What I suggest you will indeed be able to show is that many who call themselves "Christians" promote ideas that are indeed myopic. But this is a slightly different matter. Perhaps you will say I am engaging the "no true Scotsman" argument. Well, if you want to go that route, I am happy to deal with that.

I DO have some Scottish in my family tree.

Yes, many who profess "christianity" have myopic ideologies. I have talked to several on this site. . . . . . of whom I choose to be left nameless. Not everyone in christianity could be considered to be so.

 

[Alabaster]

I disagree. We learned long ago that slavery is immoral. We learned long ago that ordering soldiers to kill non-combatants [women and children/babies] is excessively immoral. We learned long ago that, even IF it is some weird "test", human sacrifice should never be suggested. Unless "human life" is worthless. . .

Man would have learned that a lot earlier if more had known God.

. . . as is seen many times in scripture. If humanity was "considered worth saving", I just don't see it. Having read the scriptures, there is FAR more unnecessary death than there should be, even death to those who were NOT "most evil in their ways".

We are precious in God's sight. If we weren't valuable to God, He would never have sent His Son to die for us. Get a clue.

John 3:16
For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.


ALL death is unnecessary! We were created to live forever, but alas, sin entered into the picture and changed things.

 

[theLords]

The old saying, "learn history or repeat it" says a lot. We learn from our mistakes. What didn't work in the past is learned and a new path taken.

Really? You're living through the War in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you honestly believe that statement?

All your statement really proves is that man is a hard headed, greedy, selfish, paranoid sadist.

 

[jasoncran]

why is it that non-christians seem to have this naivity with men that men simply arent evil.

i wish i had some pics of the mass graves of babies and kids that i saw all slaughered by the soviets in the thousands.

or mention that when russia left afghanistan they poisoned wells for the civilians and also turned afghanistan into a desert.

 

[Alabaster]

why is it that non-christians seem to have this naivity with men that men simply arent evil.

i wish i had some pics of the mass graves of babies and kids that i saw all slaughered by the soviets in the thousands.

or mention that when russia left afghanistan they poisoned wells for the civilians and also turned afghanistan into a desert.

It isn't so much naiveté, as it is godless self centeredness. The world of the unbeliever isn't big enough for the one true God. To them we are good, and improving all the time. They do not see the devolvement of man, or they would have to reject evolution. True spiritual myopia.

 

[coffeeelover]

It isn't so much naiveté, as it is godless self centeredness. The world of the unbeliever isn't big enough for the one true God. To them we are good, and improving all the time. They do not see the devolvement of man, or they would have to reject evolution. True spiritual myopia.

Humans aren't devolving.

 

[Alabaster]

Humans aren't devolving.

Yes, they are in many ways, and will continue until Jesus comes back and sets up His government and shows us just how it is supposed to be.

 

[coffeeelover]

Yes, they are in many ways, and will continue until Jesus comes back and sets up His government and shows us just how it is supposed to be.

What ways?

Are there psychopaths who take pleasure from inflicting pain on others? Yes, but that doesn't mean the human race is evil or degenerating. There are many good people who help others, and many more who don't hurt others and making it day to day.

Humans don't have magic powers to make things perfect. We only have what we are born with to make the world a better place.

 

[jasoncran]

coffeelover and alabaster despite mlk's ideas or racial equality has racism really died here in america?
i dont think so, in fact i say that in some ways its just as bad.

sadly. i do believe in helping others but i aslo see that verse in matthew 24 that says because sin shall abound the love of many shall wax cold.

and that is an end times prophecy.

when i was lost i tried to be a better person, one day it was two steps forward the next three steps back.
i see that with men in general.

we say that the holocaust wont happen again, really? what of kosovo, bosnia and darfur and also other african genocides? and dare i say the silent holocaust of babies that are of colored skin in general in america.