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Matt. 24:21 Wake Up Call?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Elijah674
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You and Hitch merely dance around the facts.
Whereas you and Eli simply ignore them?

I have yet to read one word written in response to the facts I laid out here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=40242&p=603630&viewfull=1#post603630

In the meantime, not a single person wants to deal with the fact that all of the writers of the NT wrote that they were all living in the "end times." I have explained what the "end times" meant to them here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=40242&p=603982&viewfull=1#post603982

I'll even cite the pertinent line again:

"...given the apostolic view that they were all living in the "last days", the last days can only be seen in this context: the "last days" of Israel as a nation and the "last days" of its priests and people as the sole stewards of God's kingdom. In other words, the "last days" of God's Old Covenant *economy."

Perhaps you even think yourself 'sinless' via the Cross?
Not sinless. Forgiven. And in God's grace anyone who believes in Christ for salvation becomes righteous in Him. Without Him, we are neither fit nor bound for heaven.

{21} He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)

So now, let me ask you all now a simple question: is the church the Body of Christ or not and are we its members?

It's a simple question, really. But like so many others, I'm reasonably sure it will go unanswered.
 
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And these Record Books are recorded 'at present' yet, are not FINISHED yet. (all still have 'time' to repent) Unless they have passed the boundarary line as seen in Heb. 6:1-6.

--Elijah

PS: Me again, did 'i' forget to give the WORD OF GOD HERE? Eccl. 12
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

When Crist comes again, it is a done deal.. FINISHED as far as being saved or lost.
Dan. 12:1-4
[1] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and :bigcry some to shame and everlasting contempt.
 
Someone once asked me why continue to believe if Christ already came in judgment upon Jerusalem.

Because those of us who still live have yet to attain heaven, for one.

Well then, they ask, what's left to do if He did come back then in judgment upon Israel?

The same thing we've always been told to do: make disciples of all nations. Lead them to Christ. Expand God's kingdom.

If every Christian who named the name of Christ right now were to lead 2 people to Christ every month, what would the earth look like in a year?

Think about it.
 
Not sinless. Forgiven. And in God's grace anyone who believes in Christ for salvation becomes righteous in Him. Without Him, we are neither fit nor bound for heaven.

{21} He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)

So now, let me ask you all now a simple question: is the church the Body of Christ or not and are we its members?

It's a simple question, really. But like so many others, I'm reasonably sure it will go unanswered.

It would be easier to address if you responded to my post and not buried it away in a post to Elijah.

My questions remain there for you.

s
 
Whereas you and Eli simply ignore them?

I have yet to read one word written in response to the facts I laid out here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=40242&p=603630&viewfull=1#post603630

In the meantime, not a single person wants to deal with the fact that all of the writers of the NT wrote that they were all living in the "end times." I have explained what the "end times" meant to them here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=40242&p=603982&viewfull=1#post603982

I'll even cite the pertinent line again:

"...given the apostolic view that they were all living in the "last days", the last days can only be seen in this context: the "last days" of Israel as a nation and the "last days" of its priests and people as the sole stewards of God's kingdom. In other words, the "last days" of God's Old Covenant *economy."

Not sinless. Forgiven. And in God's grace anyone who believes in Christ for salvation becomes righteous in Him. Without Him, we are neither fit nor bound for heaven.

{21} He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)

So now, let me ask you all now a simple question: is the church the Body of Christ or not and are we its members?

It's a simple question, really. But like so many others, I'm reasonably sure it will go unanswered.

A couple reasons for no answer on my part to your question is for one to claim to be in Christ & practice 2 Cor. 4:2 in opposition to the verse, finds me disagreeing with that claim. And who wants to go on the devil's ground? (me or you??)

And then we see a 'long book' to go to in their post which Jer. 17:5 cautions me about.

Then comes this short question from this post.. (about time!;))
"So now, let me ask you all now a simple question: is the church the Body of Christ or not and are we its members?" (you post)

I answer, surely! (now watch your smoke, huh? and that is a question:() Christ has an OBEDIENT Eph. 4:5 Church on earth as seen in Matt. 18:16-18. It is IDENTIFIED!
[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which [[keep the commandments of God]], and [[have the testimony of Jesus Christ]].

These are the same ones of Rev.'s last two Virgin candelsticks. One becomes the synagogue of satan (Rev. 3:9) & the other is kept as seen in Rev. 3:10. (they have been shaken to the core, one stay's put with a new leader, & the other is Philadelphia who is kept from the hour of temptation, and who follow Christ [out!] Matt. 25)

One thing is for sure Forum, and that is that God will never have any satanic loose cannons in heaven ever again! Nah. 1:9

But forum, some ones 'demand' answers to their questions but will not tell 'me' if they are preterist or not???

-- Elijah
 
Will repeat for the full preterist camp.

A. You admit you still sin?

B. Is sin no problem under Grace, seeing as you say, ALL is forgiven?

C. Is sin still OF THE DEVIL?

D. Does the tempter, the devil still TEMPT as an entity that is not you, IN YOUR MIND (at a minimum) and is the devil still involved with SIN in MAN as an active entity that is not man?

E. Has the devil been put away eternally in the LAKE OF FIRE?


Answering in reverse order with E first would eliminate the need to answer A-D if you say it's a done deal already for the DEVIL and his messengers.

If however you say it's NOT a done deal for the devil
, then your positions for nearly the entirety of full preterism are and remain VOID as it pertains to judgments REMAINING upon those entities and viewing/laying the entirety of those matters only upon Jews of 70a.d.

I've made this request several times. No links needed. Put it out in the open where it can be seen.

s
 
{42} "And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. {43} "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Acts 10:42-43 (NASB)

Did anyone have that before the cross???

{23} for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, {24} being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; {25} whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; {26} for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:23-26 (NASB)

People keep looking for Christ to come to earth, defeat the devil, establish His kingdom, and redeem fallen man.

Guess what???

He already did.

Those who believe He has to come in the future to do all of this again preach a gospel that holds that the cross was insufficient to save to the uttermost.

They want a visible Christ sitting on a visible throne in Jerusalem so they can watch the angels torment sinners.

This is exactly what those in ancient Jerusalem wanted.

If they didn't get a king like that, what makes some people think they will 2,000 years later?

This isn't about preterism. It's about truth and the truth is, there are some here who can't handle it.

I dare say that there are some here so blinded by doctrine, they can't see the work of Christ for what it is: complete and perfect.

These are the false teachers the apostles warned us about.
 
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So just to clarify Stormcrow, you believe the devil is no longer an operational entity as in tempting and blinding mankind and was sent to the lake of fire in 70a.d?

s
 
{42} "And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. {43} "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Acts 10:42-43 (NASB)

Did anyone have that before the cross???

{23} for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, {24} being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; {25} whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; {26} for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:23-26 (NASB)

People keep looking for Christ to come to earth, defeat the devil, establish His kingdom, and redeem fallen man.
A great many folks expect Christ to come to earth to end history and inaugurate the eternal state.
Guess what???

He already did.

Those who believe He has to come in the future to do all of this again preach a gospel that holds that the cross was insufficient to save to the uttermost.

They want a visible Christ sitting on a visible throne in Jerusalem so they can watch the angels torment sinners.

This is exactly what those in ancient Jerusalem wanted.

If they didn't get a king like that, what makes some people think they will 2,000 years later?

This isn't about preterism. It's about truth and the truth is, there are some here who can't handle it.

I dare say that there are some here so blinded by doctrine, they can't see the work of Christ for what it is: complete and perfect.
I can agree that His work is complete and perfect but not in an absolute sense. redemption is fully paid and men today are still being reconciled. The kingdom is still growing.
These are the false teachers the apostles warned us about.
 
--Elijah here:

Matt. 24 (where are we at in Matt. 24? Take a look at this up coming year?)


[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Take note that this does not take in all of

the other Tribulations!)
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25] Behold, I have told you before.
[26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
[27] For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


____________________________________________________________



US endures 12 billion-dollar weather disasters

Year’s onslaught of twisters, floods, storms sets record


By Seth Borenson

The Associated Press

WASHINGTON-------- America smashed the record billion –dollar weather disasters this year with a deadly dozen --- and counting.

With an almost biblical onslaught of twisters, floods, snow, drought, heat and wildfire, the U.S. in 2011 has seen more weather catastrophes that caused at least

$1 billion in damages than it did in all of the 1980s, even after the dollar figures from back then are adjusted for inflation.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration added two disasters to the list Wednesday, bringing the total to 12. The two are the Texas, New Mexico and

Arizona wildfires and the mid-June tornadoes and severe weather.

NOAA uses $1 billion as a benchmark for the worst weather disasters. Extreme weather in America this year has killed more than 1,000 people, according to National

Weather Service Director Jack Hayes. The dozen billion-dollar disasters alone add up to $52 billion.

The old record for $1 billion disasters was nine, in 2008. Hayes, a meteorologist since 1970, said he has never seen a year for extreme weather like this, calling it “the

deadly, destructive and relentless 2011.â€

Scientists blame an unlucky combination of global warming and freak chance. They say even with the long-predicted increase in weather extremes triggered by manmade

climate change, 2011 in the U.S. was wilder than they predicted. For example, the last six large outbreaks of twisters can’t be attributed to global warming, scientists say.

“The degree of devastation is extreme in and of itself, and it would be tempting to say that it is a sign of things to come, though we would be hard-pressed to see such

a convergence of circumstances occuring in one single year again for a while,†said Jerry Meehl, a climate scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in

Boulder, Colo.

Another factor in the rising number of billion-dollar calamities: “More people and more stuff in harm’s way,†such as in coastal areas, said NOAA Administrator Jane

Lubchenco. “What we’re seeing this year is not just an anomalous year, but a harbinger of things to come,†with heat waves, droughts and other extreme weather,

Lubchenco said Wednesday at an American Geophysical Union science conference in San Francisco.

The number of weather catastrophes that pass the billion-dollar mark when adjusted into constant dollars is increasing with each decade. In the 1980s, it was 3.8 a year.

It jumped to 4.6 in the first decade of this century. And in the past two years, it has averaged 7.5.

Other years had overall damage figures because of one gargantuan disaster, such as Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and a 1988 drought.
Still trying to be a prophet, I see.
 
redemption is fully paid and men today are still being reconciled. The kingdom is still growing.
Yep. Kinda like that mustard seed Christ described.

The point of the questions I asked regarding the church being the body of Christ and whether the body is attached to the head is simply this:

Christ continues the work of reconciling people to God through His church, warts and all, which is why He prayed that His disciples (and those who would come after them) would not be taken out of the world.

As His Temple - both collectively and individually - we are where the presence of God dwells on earth now. Those looking for His physical return to a throne in a 3rd Temple in Jerusalem are looking for something He never promised. We are where the Holy Spirit dwells until we are called home to be with Him.

The church needs to stop looking for Christ "in that place" or "over there" and start looking within ourselves and to each other. Only then will we begin to appreciate all that He has done for us.
 
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{42} "And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. {43} "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins." Acts 10:42-43 (NASB)

Did anyone have that before the cross???

{23} for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, {24} being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; {25} whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; {26} for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:23-26 (NASB)

People keep looking for Christ to come to earth, defeat the devil, establish His kingdom, and redeem fallen man.

Guess what???

He already did.

Those who believe He has to come in the future to do all of this again preach a gospel that holds that the cross was insufficient to save to the uttermost.

They want a visible Christ sitting on a visible throne in Jerusalem so they can watch the angels torment sinners.

This is exactly what those in ancient Jerusalem wanted.

If they didn't get a king like that, what makes some people think they will 2,000 years later?

This isn't about preterism. It's about truth and the truth is, there are some here who can't handle it.

I dare say that there are some here so blinded by doctrine, they can't see the work of Christ for what it is: complete and perfect.

These are the false teachers the apostles warned us about.

So what you are saying is that some of the prophets you believe, but NOT OTHERS WITH THE HOLY SPIRITS INSPIRATION, right?
And that in Bottom/line, God is a liar?? Read on forum!

Gen. 42
[32] And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

'doubled twice meaning that the thing is ESTABLISHED by God & it will come to pass! When God speaks, [IT IS TRUTH!] All prophesied Truth in Matt. 24 has an REPEATED TRUTH AS STATED TWICE IN ECCL.! Twice & doubled God TELL"S THE UNIVERSE!! (but some will not have God tell them, but just the Gen. 4:7 desired one??)

First: Eccl.1:9-10
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

And what do these constant posting's do but call God a liar???

OK: Twice, Doubled! Now again, [[INSPIRATION]] (not satan's clan) from another twice stated Truth! Eccl. 3:15

Eccl. 3
[15] That which hath been [is now]; and that which [is to be hath already been]; and [God requireth that which is past].

And again: When the exceptionally few times that non/salvational issues appear only once, God tel's us of these! Such as sin NOT ariseing a second time! Nah. 1:9 + the rainbow in the sky meaning that NO Second WORLD Flood again!

And two FLOPS of His ex/Church? Surely! Matt. 23:38 + Rev. 3:9 Spewed out ones. And Christ re/crucifion? Surely! the first time by His own & the repeat of these fallen of Heb. 6:1-6 who had been MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST!

And the ones of Rev. 17:1-5? Surely an second time REPEAT BE/COMING THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH! (Inspiration's WORD!!) And when one believes that Christ is here on earth now.. Matt. 24:21 on? They will be easily sold about anything!:crying But just wait until the next phase comes along by these ones of working real miracles for deception! And 2 Thess. 2:9-12 finds this BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS!

--Elijah
 
So what you are saying is that some of the prophets you believe, but NOT OTHERS WITH THE HOLY SPIRITS INSPIRATION, right?
And that in Bottom/line, God is a liar?? Read on forum!

Gen. 42
[32] And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

'doubled twice meaning that the thing is ESTABLISHED by God & it will come to pass! When God speaks, [IT IS TRUTH!] All prophesied Truth in Matt. 24 has an REPEATED TRUTH AS STATED TWICE IN ECCL.! Twice & doubled God TELL"S THE UNIVERSE!! (but some will not have God tell them, but just the Gen. 4:7 desired one??)

First: Eccl.1:9-10
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
[10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

And what do these constant posting's do but call God a liar???

OK: Twice, Doubled! Now again, [[INSPIRATION]] (not satan's clan) from another twice stated Truth! Eccl. 3:15

Eccl. 3
[15] That which hath been [is now]; and that which [is to be hath already been]; and [God requireth that which is past].

And again: When the exceptionally few times that non/salvational issues appear only once, God tel's us of these! Such as sin NOT ariseing a second time! Nah. 1:9 + the rainbow in the sky meaning that NO Second WORLD Flood again!

And two FLOPS of His ex/Church? Surely! Matt. 23:38 + Rev. 3:9 Spewed out ones. And Christ re/crucifion? Surely! the first time by His own & the repeat of these fallen of Heb. 6:1-6 who had been MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST!

And the ones of Rev. 17:1-5? Surely an second time REPEAT BE/COMING THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH! (Inspiration's WORD!!) And when one believes that Christ is here on earth now.. Matt. 24:21 on? They will be easily sold about anything!:crying But just wait until the next phase comes along by these ones of working real miracles for deception! And 2 Thess. 2:9-12 finds this BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS!

--Elijah

You win, Elijah...Yes, in my view God is a liar. I also sell kittens and puppies for medical experimentation and steal candy from children when they're not looking.

I don't know how you ever caught me, but congratulations! Obviously, God has given you enough insight into my insidious belief system and lifestyle that I simply must confess to it all now.

There, I feel better, don't you??? :bigfrown
 
You win, Elijah...Yes, in my view God is a liar. I also sell kittens and puppies for medical experimentation and steal candy from children when they're not looking.

I don't know how you ever caught me, but congratulations! Obviously, God has given you enough insight into my insidious belief system and lifestyle that I simply must confess to it all now.

There, I feel better, don't you??? :bigfrown

You also have been avoiding like the plague addressing this particular matter in a simple straight forward manner:

Do you believe the devil is no longer an operational entity as in tempting and spiritually blinding mankind and was sent to the lake of fire in 70a.d?

I understand why you flee this, as what you hold may be outside of most orthodox understandings. I'd expect in all your honest and truthful claims you may muster up a straight answer on this subject at some point?

s
 
Yep. Kinda like that mustard seed Christ described.

The point of the questions I asked regarding the church being the body of Christ and whether the body is attached to the head is simply this:

Christ continues the work of reconciling people to God through His church, warts and all, which is why He prayed that His disciples (and those who would come after them) would not be taken out of the world.

As His Temple - both collectively and individually - we are where the presence of God dwells on earth now. Those looking for His physical return to a throne in a 3rd Temple in Jerusalem are looking for something He never promised. We are where the Holy Spirit dwells until we are called home to be with Him.

The church needs to stop looking for Christ "in that place" or "over there" and start looking within ourselves and to each other. Only then will we begin to appreciate all that He has done for us.
History has a way of repeating its self, The Jews of yesteryear were looking for the Savior they missed Him. They missed Him because He did not look like what they wanted. They were looking for a King to free them from the world. They refused to accept His style of freedom. Churches today are looking to be free of the world in the same fashion as the Hebrews of old.

He is building His kingdom.... We are the temple... He said He would rebuild the tabernacle of David. Any one study the Tabernacle of David?
 
History has a way of repeating its self, The Jews of yesteryear were looking for the Savior they missed Him. They missed Him because He did not look like what they wanted. They were looking for a King to free them from the world. They refused to accept His style of freedom. Churches today are looking to be free of the world in the same fashion as the Hebrews of old.

He is building His kingdom.... We are the temple... He said He would rebuild the tabernacle of David. Any one study the Tabernacle of David?

Yep, thanks to a thread from a long time ago. The Tabernacle of David is symbolic for something found in the hearts of God's people. It is not a physical structure.
 
refresh my mind on the tabernacle of david. if i recall that was temporary home for the ark of the covenant after it was recovered from philitistia.

no the jews look for the third temple that isnt going to be destroyed. often when i read their views is see often what we call the second advent

there are two way of describing the lord.

ben david, and ben joseph. the later is what first came and the former will come when the judgment of man and sin and death are removed.

the jews no longer look for messiah ben joseph.
 
Paul advised us clearly on what we are to look for and anticipate, and no, it does not revolve around the events that took place in Jerusalem in 70 a.d.

Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

We all still await this matter. We all still groan within ourselves because of the presence of SIN. The 'redemption price' has been paid by His Own Blood.

The redemption of the body has not yet transpired. The 'great tribulation' will happen first. That will be the RIPPING AWAY of the workings and workers of SIN and INIQUITY. The great earthquake speaks to this exact division. It is a 'personal' matter to everyone who will be upon the earth at the time it transpires.

We should not FEAR this matter. It will happen, it will be DIRE. But it also will be the final separation and destruction of the causes of EVIL, the devil and his messengers and the REDEMPTION of our body.

If you read John's writing to the 7 churches, all seven churches have the workings of Satan identified therein. God Himself will make this matter known to every church member.

When the BODY sees, then the EVENTS will come about, and quickly.

Watch, pray, prepare to MEET PERFECTION.

When TRUTH comes into YOUR TEMPLE you will have TEARS. That is the MEAT that you will be FED. The meat of TEARS. You will understand 'why' you and all of us are poor, pitiful, blind and naked.

And you will be COVERED. But there will also be an UNCOVERING as well, that you may see.

Rev. 3:
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

The Great Tribulation WILL COME upon the 'whole world.'

May we be quickly DIVIDED.

There will be only ONE CHURCH spared, that of Philadelphia, BROTHERLY LOVE.

Rev. 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The hour of temptation did not arrive in 70 a.d
.
It remains to come upon THE WORLD and will TRY them therein, those who dwell upon 'the earth.'

And ALL the 'tribes of the earth' shall MOAN and SHALL CRY! Because it will be THEIR ending.

s
 
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